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Featured Trinity vs. Tritheism

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    LOL, LOL.... bye dave.
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    @justbyfaith and @101G Another serious error in your concept of Christ is that you make him created. Which denies that he is God. And renders his sacrifice incomplete. If the Holy Spirit produced Christ's body, soul, and spirit through the incarnation. And the Father speaks through him merely as a prophet, then he is not God, but merely a creature God used the Holy Spirit to create. This is some of the worst of the worst heresy on tap. Post #855
     
  3. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    "Verily God,
    Begotten, not created,
    O come, let us adore Him,
    Christ the Lord!"
     
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  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I wasn't up at the crack of dawn this morning to answer this the first two times you said it...

    But simply, Jesus is uncreated in His Deity...in His humanity He is "made of the seed of David according to the flesh." (see Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11)
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You say the Holy Spirit is the Father who created Jesus the man. This is heresy.
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    No, I do not believe that the Spirit is "divided" into two Persons in my understanding of the Trinity.

    The Father became the Son; and continued to remain behind in eternity as the 1st Person of the Trinity. This is not division but multiplication.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    No, I say that the Holy Ghost became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary, which is substantiated by scripture; and therefore cannot be heresy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    The Father generates the eternally begotten Son. Who generates him if the Father becomes the Son?
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You say Jesus was created by saying this. God is not created.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I am still waiting for scripture from you that proves this point.

    In His Deity, Christ is not created.

    In His humanity, scripture is clear that He is:

    Rom 1:3, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Isa 45:11, Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You still end up with Christ being created by the Holy Spirit in the virgin's womb. God is not created. therefore you can call Jesus God, but you really do not believe he is.

    Again, pay attention to Chalcedon:

    "We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable soul and body; consubstantial with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning have declared concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us."
     
  12. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'And the Word was made flesh,
    and dwelt among us,
    (
    and we beheld his glory,
    the glory as of the only begotten of the Father
    , )
    full of grace and truth.'

    (John 1:14)

    Hello there, @justbyfaith & @Dave L, @101G,@farouk & Co.,

    I choose not to argue about this subject, but rather to rejoice in it. For this morning I awoke with the wonderful words of John 1:14 in my mind, and rejoicing my heart. How blessed the disciples were to have known our Lord in the flesh, to have 'beheld' Him, and to have seen his resurrection 'glory' as John did on the mount of transfiguration, and when He rose from the dead and appeared unto them. As John confesses in his epistle:-

    'That which was from the beginning,
    .. which we have heard,
    .... which we have seen with our eyes,
    ...... which we have looked upon,
    ........ and our hands have handled,
    .......... of the Word of life;
    .......... (
    For the life was manifested, and we have seen it,
    ..........
    and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life,
    ..........
    which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
    )
    That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
    that ye also may have fellowship with us:

    and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
    and with His Son Jesus Christ.

    And these things write we unto you,
    that your joy may be full.'

    (John 1:1-4)

    * How wonderful is this! So don't grieve the Holy Spirit by arguing about these things, but rejoice and be glad in the Lord, that your joy may be full, and God glorified.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    In Christ Jesus
    Our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I rejoice with you, but keep in mind, Oneness denies the deity of Christ, making him created by the Holy Spirit in Mary's conception. In the bible God took on a human soul and body through the incarnation.
     
  14. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
    the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
    but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.
    Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:
    or else believe me for the very works' sake.'

    (John 14:10-11)

    Hello @dave,

    I observe that in the verses I quoted from John's gospel and his epistle in #872, that he does not refer to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself directly, but to what He came to reveal as, 'The Word': referring to Him as the One Who was in the beginning, Whom Himself was God, (John 1:1,14). As 'life made manifest':- 'That eternal life which was with the Father'(1 John 1:1-4). It was the words He spoke that were 'spirit', 'truth' and 'life'. The Lord Jesus Christ was the wondrous means by which they were delivered.

    He (
    the Word) came as a man in order to be man's kinsman-redeemer and redeem Him. A body was given Him (Hebrews 10:5/Psalm 40:6-7), and He came as the Only Begotton of God, in order to make God known by word and action, and to pay the penalty for sin on our behalf, that we may be delivered from death and have life everlasting.

    If we have believed
    'The Word of life', in the gospel concerning God's Son, then we have 'the Word' abiding in us, 'the eternal life which was with the Father' as our hope and joy.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    * May His Word dwell in us richly (Col.3:12-17), and be as a shining light to those around us.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris

     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    "with the Father" = the Son/Word was with the Father.
     
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  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    This is solved very simply by the doctrine of the hypostatic union. The Spirit of Christ is the Father, uncreated.

    That is simply a lie.

    You are confounding the fact that we accept that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh with the idea that He was uncreated as God.

    Is the flesh of Jesus uncreated? Where did it come from?

    I hold that Jesus Christ is God and that His flesh came about through a union of the Holy Ghost with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary, which is exactly what the scripture teaches. If you teach differently, then your teaching is contrary to scripture; unless you can bring up a scripture that says otherwise.
     
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  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You deny Christ's deity and make him nothing more than a sinless prophet by your false doctrine. Return to the Church and be blessed by all they furnished us with in the ecumenical creeds.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Satan is the accuser of the brethren...and a liar to boot.

    I absolutely unequivocably do not deny the Deity of Jesus Christ.

    And I am a member of His body; since I also affirm that Jesus is the Lord even in light of Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21; and therefore I have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3)...whereas those who do not confess that Jesus is the Lord in light of these verses (yourself included) do not have the Holy Ghost; and therefore are none of Christ's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Also in Oneness theology; only it is the one true God that took on a human soul and body and not 1/3 of God or a 2nd God.
     
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  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You make Jesus out to be created by the Holy Spirit. God is not created. Therefore you deny Jesus is God.
     
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