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Featured Trinity vs. Tritheism

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    How dare you say that I am constructing an idol! I suggest that you actually read what I say, and refrain from making poisonous insinuations.

    In Christ Jesus
    My Saviour, Lord and Head.
    Chris
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    If you do not agree with the trinity doctrine as presented in the ecumenical creeds, you are. If you agree with them, you are not constructing an idol.
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    my Trinity doctrine???
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first thanks for the reply. do you have a father, a son and a Spirit of God correct?

    so why ask me,
    ?.
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    since my trinity doctrine believer cannot answer the question, "Who is Jesus biological father? " the answer.... he don't have one, nor a biological mother. Mary was only a surrogate mother, the vessel of delivery. just like any other surrogate mother she has no biological ties to Child.

    and with that, the scripture in Isaiah 9:6 is true.
    Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

    the child, the flesh was born, but the son, the spirit in that flesh is "GIVEN" and not born. for God is a Spirit. woman cannot birth spirits, for spirits are immaterial, nothing to push aganist in order to push out. Jesus came from above,
    John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

    John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

    now that flesh, or that body from below, that came out of Mary, "The son of God",
    Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".

    son of God is the Body, the flesh, that the Son of man came in.

    PICJAG
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Jesus is the Maker, in His Deity.

    In His humanity He is created/made:

    Rom 1:3

    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Isa 45:11

    Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.


    1st, in saying that the Son is the Father

    (Isa 9:6

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    )

    I am not saying that the Father is the Son. The Father inhabits eternity:

    Isa 57:15

    For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.


    The Son walked the earth; and in Him indwelt/indwells all the fulness of the Father:

    Jhn 14:7

    If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
    Jhn 14:8

    Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

    Jhn 14:9

    Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    Jhn 14:10

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Jhn 14:11

    Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


    2nd, you did not answer the question that I asked you for the third time, and that is strike three. The question is (for the fourth time), Do you confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? I will give you a fourth opportunity to show that you yourself do not have the spirit of antichrist:

    1Jo 4:1

    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    1Jo 4:2

    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    1Jo 4:3

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



    2Jo 1:7

    For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


    3rdly, I don't think that you confess that Jesus is the Lord in light of Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21 now, do you? Because my second question to you, now, is, Do you confess that Jesus is the Lord in light of these verses?:

    Mat 11:25

    At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

    Luk 10:21

    In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

    Eph 4:5

    One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


    According to these verses, if Jesus is the Lord, then Jesus is the Father...and I don't think you agree with this.

    1Co 2:13

    Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


    Therefore you have to deal with these scriptures in your heart; because you are in denial of them.

    The Athanasian creed also says this:

     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    satan's fear tactic.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You need to fear God, it's for your own good.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Most definitely.

    Job 28:28

    And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
     
    Dave L likes this.
  10. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Totally disagree.

    Created - is bringing something into existance.

    Made - is changing/ or revealing something about that which already exists.

    Jesus was not created.

    Made pertaining to Jesus is revealing something about Him.

    It is not something He did not already have;
    It is something men did not know, until it was revealed to them.

    Whatever new thing YOU learn about Jesus, is what Jesus always was and had.

    Heb 13 [8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday and to day, and for ever.

    Jesus is the MAKER of things God has created.

    God 'created" the Earth.
    Jesus "made" the water assuage and the earth (dry land) was revealed.

    God "created" mankind
    Jesus "made" mankind living.

    God "created" animals
    Jesus "made" animals living.

    Jesus does not NEED to become a HUMAN, or an ANIMAL, or an ANGEL to understand or to relate to those things.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  11. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Good advice for anyone...
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I hold that the words "created" and "made" are synonymous to each other.

    I have seen it happen on not a few occasions that when people try to take away the synonymity of words, that heresy often develops out of it.
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    So who are you saying is created and made?
     
  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein"

    NOW THIS,

    Isaiah 45:11 "Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

    Isaiah 45:12 "I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded".


    the CREATOR is the MAKER, the SAME one PERSON. so there is no difference in the term God and JESUS.

    PICJAG
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I have made the answer to this clear in previous posts.
    .
    .
    .
    I believe that it is presently four times no, perhaps even five, your answer to the question that I have asked you, Do you confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?

    (Because as one evangelist so aptly put it, To not confirm is to deny).

    Therefore I conclude that you have three fingers pointing back at you (and also, the finger pointing at me is withered) when you claim that I have the spirit of antichrist.

    Also, it is the Holy Ghost who is absolutely promised to those who repent and receive baptism in Jesus' Name.

    If we ask for a fish and do what it takes to receive a fish, God isn't going to give us a scorpion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  16. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But no where have I claimed them to be of one indivisible substance, the essence of Trinitarianism.
     
  17. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    101G ~

    What is the point you are trying to get across to me?

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  18. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Jesus cried and said,
    "He that believeth on me,
    .. believeth not on me,
    .... but on Him that sent me.
    And he that seeth me
    .. seeth Him that sent me.
    .... I am come a light into the world,
    ...... that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
    And if any man hear my words,
    and believe not,
    .. I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world,
    .... but to save the world.
    He that rejecteth me,
    .. and receiveth not my words,
    .... hath one that judgeth him:
    ...... the word that I have spoken,
    ........ the same shall judge him in the last day.
    For I have not spoken of myself;
    .. but the Father which sent me,
    .... He gave me a commandment,
    ...... what I should say,
    and what I should speak.
    And I know that His commandment is life everlasting:
    .. whatsoever I speak therefore,
    .... even as the Father said unto me,
    ...... so I speak.'

    (Joh 12:44-50)

    Praise His Holy Name!

    Hello @Dave L,

    Like a spider in a web you wait for your victims to become ensnared in your rhetoric. Demanding that they invoke a creed that was compiled by men of your choosing. I choose not to give you the satisfaction of knowing whether I agree or disagree with that creed. God's Word must be the arbiter in all matters concerning doctrine, for it alone will be our judge.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    If you draw a conclusion from scripture on any topic, you have a creed. If you debate your conclusion with many holding different views, and your view wins, you have the best and most reliable teaching on the topic. And this is what the creeds provide for those willing to learn from the best teachers.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Your "orthodoxy test" is meaningless. Anyone can say Jesus is the Lord according to their view of who God is. But if you get God wrong, as you do, you cannot say Jesus is Lord in any true sense. Paul says it comes by the Holy Spirit who must first open your eyes before you can believe Jesus is YAHWEH. Your false concept of YAHWEH = a false Christ you say is Lord = huge sin.
     
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