Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[101G]

It doesn't address their position, only yours

yes it do when he said that he was "ALONE" and "BY Himself".

3. If God is unitarian, why are there so many plural descriptions in the OT (viz. plural nouns, adjectives, verbs, prepositions) to describe the one God? (as seen above).

Example: in Isaiah 54:5, “Maker” is plural in Hebrew, lit., “Makers”

answer,
H6213 עָשָׂה `asah (aw-saw') v.
to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application.

this simply means he's the MAKER of more that one thing. listen,
is he not the "Maker" of Heaven? and Earth, that two things he made right there so show plurality.
did he not make all the fish in the sea, all the diffrent animals on land and air. THAT'S THE PLURALITY of Making ALL...THINGS. oh how simple. the same thing in Psalm 149:2

The same can be said in Ecclesiastes 12:1, where the Hebrew literally reads, “Remember also your Creators” (plural in Heb.).

ERROR, all the translation render it as "CREATOR", view for yourself, here's the link, Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember your Creator in the days of your youth, before the days of adversity come, and the years approach of which you will say, "I find no pleasure in them,"
so that is refuted

aee how easy to correct your false assumptions.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

yes it do when he said that he was "ALONE" and "BY Himself".

answer,
H6213 עָשָׂה `asah (aw-saw') v.
to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application.

this simply means he's the MAKER of more that one thing. listen,
is he not the "Maker" of Heaven? and Earth, that two things he made right there so show plurality.
did he not make all the fish in the sea, all the diffrent animals on land and air. THAT'S THE PLURALITY of Making ALL...THINGS. oh how simple. the same thing in Psalm 149:2

ERROR, all the translation render it as "CREATOR", view for yourself, here's the link, Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember your Creator in the days of your youth, before the days of adversity come, and the years approach of which you will say, "I find no pleasure in them,"
so that is refuted

aee how easy to correct your false assumptions.

PICJAG.

Can you answer any of these above claims against your position? Possibly line for line so all can clearly see?

 

[101G]

dave we have a question for you, you posted,

4. If God is unitarian, why is it that there are so many places in the Bible where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are clearly distinguished from each other in the same verse?

if they are so distinguished, tell us who is speaking here, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

who is this dave, the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit, since they are so distinguish.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

dave we have a question for you, you posted,

if they are so distinguished, tell us who is speaking here, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

who is this dave, the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit, since they are so distinguish.

PICJAG.

Not who you think it is. You need to accept the challenges and answer these folks as truthfully as you can.

Here's another question they have for you;

5. If Jesus is the Father, why is it that Jesus is explicitly referred to as “the Son” over two hundred times in the NT, and never once is he called “Father? Note, that over two hundred times, the Father is referred to by Jesus or someone else as being clearly distinct from Jesus. Over fifty times, the Father, and Jesus are presented as explicitly distinct in the same passages (cf. Dan. 7:9-14; John 1:1, 18; 6:37-39, 44; 14:23; 17:5; 2 John 1:3; 2:22; Heb. 1:1-13; Jude 1:1; Rev. 5:13 et al. (see above). Further, almost one hundred and eighty times, Jesus is presented as referring to “the Father,” “My Father,” or “your Father” in the Gospels as distinct from Himself, and at no time does Jesus refer to “my Son.” Forty times, in the Gospel of John, Jesus refers to Himself as “Sent by the Father,” but never does Jesus refer to Himself as the Father who sent the Son (cf. John 6:38). And over two hundred times, Scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit and Jesus as Distinct Persons- and Never once does Scripture call Jesus the Father or the “Holy Spirit.”

 

[101G]

5. If Jesus is the Father, why is it that Jesus is explicitly referred to as “the Son” over two hundred times in the NT, and never once is he called “Father?

is not JESUS YHWH? out of your own mout we have the answer to that. but Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.listen,

so how is this "son" called FATHER?

since JESUS is the LORD, scripture, Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

ok dave who is your redeemer, and ... (smile), "who's your daddy"... let's see,

Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

did not JESUS CREATED ALL THING, the YHWH.

see I know what you are trying to get at, but we want let you know it now... LOL.

so dave, "who's your daddy" ................................... the LORD JESUS.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

is not JESUS YHWH? out of your own mout we have the answer to that. but Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.listen,

so how is this "son" called FATHER?

since JESUS is the LORD, scripture, Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

ok dave who is your redeemer, and ... (smile), "who's your daddy"... let's see,

Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

did not JESUS CREATED ALL THING, the YHWH.

see I know what you are trying to get at, but we want let you know it now... LOL.

so dave, "who's your daddy" ................................... the LORD JESUS.

PICJAG.

How many uses of the word Father do you find in the NT? Father = Teacher, Parent, God, and possibly more. But you shop around scripture trying to fill your cart to your liking.

 

[101G]

How many uses of the word Father do you find in the NT? Father = Teacher, Parent, God, and possibly more. But you shop around scripture trying to fill your cart to your liking.

no, we just answered your question, and refuted your ERROR.

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

no, we just answered your question, and refuted your ERROR.

PICJAG.

You are applying one definition of Father that suits your agenda in place of Teacher. But even so, if the trinity dwells in Christ, how can he not be the Father as well as the Son and Holy Spirit in the classic trinitarian sense?

 

[101G]

You are applying one definition of Father that suits your agenda in place of Teacher. But even so, if the trinity dwells in Christ, how can he not be the Father as well as the Son and Holy Spirit in the classic trinitarian sense?

that's your problem, you have no clue what the word Father means.
example, James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

do you know what the Father of Lights here means?

PICJAG.

 

[Dave L]

that's your problem, you have no clue what the word Father means.
example, James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

do you know what the Father of Lights here means?

PICJAG.

You are confusing the definitions of "Father" to suit your limited views of God.

 

[101G]

You are confusing the definitions of "Father" to suit your limited views of God.

no it's you lack of KNOWLEDGE of Definitions and how they are used.

see JESUS is the Father of LIGHTS for he created them. Jesus is the Father of Mankind because he creaded man.

and Jesus is the Son because he makes all thing NEW.

see you know nothing of the FATHER who is the SON in flesh.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Dave L, it seems to me that you have said that the whole Trinity dwells in the human body of Jesus Christ, per Colossians 2:9.

Doesn't this make Jesus triphrenic?

But if Jesus is spirit and soul and body, which member of the Trinity is His Spirit?

God the Father is a Spirit, not a soul, John 4:23-24.

Which part of Jesus is the Holy Ghost, spirit or soul or body?

Which part of Jesus is the Son, spirit or soul or body?

Since the Father is a Spirit, that takes up the position of Jesus' spirit.

Which part of Jesus' tripartite nature is the Holy Ghost? The Father has taken the position of spirit in Jesus.

In saying these things, I am not declaring sound doctrine per se, but am attempting to speak those things which will become sound doctrine, Titus 2:1.

I'm attempting to make you think about the Triune nature of the Son, as you have said you believe in.

 

[Nancy]

that is 100% correct.

another correct Statement.

without looking this up in the bible, who is speaking here,?, listen, "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
first who is the "me", and was this God speaking from heaven concering Abraham Sacrifice of his Son.

ok, see if this is self explanatory. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".
is this not self explanatory when the LORD said he made all things, so in Genesis 1:26 when he said let us "MAKE" man is this meaning being alone? let's see. Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created". ok, is "he" singular? yes. remember he said that he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF".

PICJAG.

I'm just a simple person 10, and I like to keep it that way. I am not a good debater, nor do I try so hard to tell folks how wrong they are or how right I am. The only way my spiritual beliefs change is when and if God opens my eyes to something new, or has me see something different than I do now. So, I will respect what you believe without necessarily agreeing with everything and I hope I can expect the same from you. I simply believe what I am given to understand, when HE is ready to chastise me for believing something that is not true, my heart and mind will accept. If it be through someone on here, or reading scripture or just during alone time with Him, I know He will reveal...and there is nothing else I trust or believe.
God Bless,
nancy

 

[Nancy]

Ephesians 4:10 explains for us the "with" John 1:1.

God the Father descended into time, taking on the added nature of human flesh, then ascended to inhabit eternity once again. Thus you have two of the same Person dwelling in eternity (outside of time). Simple.

At the baptism of Jesus, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit descended from their perspective positions in eternity to testify of the Son; who has already descended to take on a nature of human flesh. The Holy Ghost, in essence went "back in time" since the origins of the Holy Ghost is that Jesus gave up the ghost in Luke 23:46...He released His Spirit back to the Father who inhabiteth eternity.

The Spirit of Jesus is the Father (look up John 4:23-24 and John 14:7-11). God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are the same Person; with distinctions between each one.

AMEN! It seems clear to me. Why do so many try to de-bunk clear scripture? also, I wonder- do you think it is absolutely necessary to believe in the Trinity when it comes to salvation?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

also, I wonder- do you think it is absolutely necessary to believe in the Trinity when it comes to salvation?

Salvation is not dependent on a man's ability to pass a theology test.

 

[Nancy]

Salvation is not dependent on a man's ability to pass a theology test.

Thank God for that! If it were, this gal would be kindling for the fire!

 

[CoreIssue]

Salvation is not dependent on a man's ability to pass a theology test.

It is dependent on having the biblical God and plan of salvation.

Your Mormonism has neither.

 

[justbyfaith]

AMEN! It seems clear to me. Why do so many try to de-bunk clear scripture? also, I wonder- do you think it is absolutely necessary to believe in the Trinity when it comes to salvation?

While I would say that I believe that I personally believe that God is Triune, I don't think that there is any place in scripture where it says, "If you don't believe in the Trinity, you will be condemned." If a person is born of God, departing from the Trinity for a moment in order to see the Oneness of the Lord more clearly is not going to take away their salvation.

The Deity of Christ is the essential that I see magnified in scripture (John 8:24 and accompanying verses: John 8:58-59, John 10:31-33, Exodus 3:14).

But I think that some people have a definition of the Trinity in their minds that is in all reality Tritheistic.

 

[Nancy]

While I would say that I believe that I personally believe that God is Triune, I don't think that there is any place in scripture where it says, "If you don't believe in the Trinity, you will be condemned." If a person is born of God, departing from the Trinity for a moment in order to see the Oneness of the Lord more clearly is not going to take away their salvation.

The Deity of Christ is the essential that I see magnified in scripture (John 8:24 and accompanying verses: John 8:58-59, John 10:31-33, Exodus 3:14).

But I think that some people have a definition of the Trinity in their minds that is in all reality Tritheistic.

I do not think it is core to salvation itself either. I just see the "trinity" as one God working as three. He's God, He could use 4 or 5 if He wishes but...they are all God...IMHO.

 

[justbyfaith]

Since Jesus' soul was made an offering for sin (see Isaiah 53:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:21), to say that Jesus' soul is the Holy Ghost may very well amount to blasphemy of the Spirit if you're not careful (you will see it if you look up the verses).

cont'd from #1192.