Trinity?

[afaithfulone4u]

We must ask the Father to open our eyes so that we can see the Light of who He is. There are not 3 Gods
There is but 1 Father..... 1Son/The Word....1 Spirit..... and they are all three One God

1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word{JESUS THE LIVING WORD OF GOD WHO BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
KJV
You can not have God without also receiving of His Word/Jesus and having His Spirit indwelling you

For God is only as good as His Word who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 1:1-5
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
KJV

The Word is Spirit and life you can not have the Father who is Spirit if you can not accept His Word as well for He is His Word and His Word is Life.

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
KJV
1 John 1:1-2
1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
KJV

 

[HammerStone]

Does this constitute denial of the doctrine of the Trinity or are you clarifying the doctrine?

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Does this constitute denial of the doctrine of the Trinity or are you clarifying the doctrine?

There is but One God yet His Word and the Spirit are God as well don't you agree?
Yet the Father is the head over His Word and Spirit for just as He made us body, soul and spirit so must He be. The Word is the savior of our souls the Spirit is as a mother who feeds us and nourishes us in the Word and the Father is Sovereign over all.
How did God Create the world? Did he not use His Word? and who does the Bible say the Word is? It says Jesus is the Word and His is ON/AT the right hand of God meaning the Father who is Spirit does and creates everything by His Word Jesus. As Jesus is God's Word that is why he claims equality with the Father for a man's name is only as good as His Word. The Father did not die on the cross, The Father put His Word to death of the old covenant for US so that we could be salvaged at the end of the harvest of souls becoming as the angels who rule and reign on the earth with our Brother who is Christ.
Matt 12:48-50
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
KJV
Jesus has been given the kingdom until all things have been put under his feet for every knee must bow to the Word of God and then the kingdom will be handed back to the Father so that GOD can be all and all. Jesus is THE WORD

John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
KJV
John 15:1
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
KJV
John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
KJV

1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

I believe there is One God who is Father, Word/Son and Holy Ghost just as the Bible says yet they are all ONE and a child of God MUST have all 3 indwelling them or they are not of God.

 

[John Zain]

1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word{JESUS THE LIVING WORD OF GOD WHO BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US,
and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV

Just a friendly heads-up that this verse was added by some helpful scribe (or?).
Perhaps you should investigate this for youself?

 

[afaithfulone4u]

1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word{JESUS THE LIVING WORD OF GOD WHO BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US,
and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV

Just a friendly heads-up that this verse was added by some helpful scribe (or?).
Perhaps you should investigate this for youself?

Thank you John, I have heard that before, but God revealed to me that Jesus is the Word of God and not the Father, but His Word.
One day I back in 2003 or so was watching a Christian program and there was an unbelieving Jewish man who said "Do you know why the Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah?" And my ears awaited to hear his reason and he said, because God says we are not to worship any images as God, and the Christian's worship these images of Jesus saying he is God.
Right there and then God showed me that these man made images that the whole world recognizes as Jesus Yet they are NOT images of Jesus but just an image of a man that is called God for man to LOOK AT for worship, for there are no actual likenesses of Jesus so they are idolatry and probably the image of the false Messiah that many will fall for.
But He also revealed to me that Jesus is the Word of God whom became flesh just as the Bible has told us. And as we know the Word was God, but the Word was also WITH God from the beginning. You can not have the Father, unless you are able to accept His Word as well and one can only call the Word Lord by the indwelling Spirit for those who do not have the Spirit can not hear the Word, for it is torment to their ears.

You will notice that many prophets have spoken FOR God, yet none of them were called THE LIVING WORD as Jesus is?
Blessings

 

[John Zain]

Thank you John, I have heard that before, but God revealed to me that Jesus is the Word of God and not the Father, but His Word.

Sorry, but I don't understand ...
I'm just saying that it's not fruitful to use that passage because people know it was not in the original.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Sorry, but I don't understand ...
I'm just saying that it's not fruitful to use that passage because people know it was not in the original.

Thank you John for bringing that to my attention. I am saying that rather they are not in the original or not, it is the truth, so I am not worried about it. It is in the Bible for a reason and I do not think that God would have had it added if it was not true. Most translations say "There are 3 that testify" and I don't think they meant Manny, Moe and Jack sorry for the sarcasm. Can you think of another 3 that it could be besides the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and we are already told that the Jesus is the Word and was with God and was God soo....

Who do you think they are may I ask? I ask because I am sure that you must agree there are no other 3 that we are to be baptized in
Not to mention that I already understand from the Spirit that it is correct rather it was in the original or not. What matters is truth.

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV
John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
KJV
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV
1 John 1:1-2
1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
KJV

 

[excubitor]

Hello everyone,
This is my first post here. Hopefully I will get along with you all and we can have some interesting dialogue.
The doctrine of the Trinity is really just a title for a wide range of doctrines which describe the nature of the godhead.
These doctrines have been progressively articulated by Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Theophilus of Antioch, Athanasius and various church councils.
When someone rejects the doctrine of the Trinity it is invariably the case that they are either horribly ignorant or misunderstanding of the what the doctrine actually teaches, or else they are heretics and are holding to a very false notion about God.

It has been made clear by the above authorities, that to be a Christian we must hold as true the fundamental beliefs and tenets of the Christian faith. To reject any part of these truths is to reject the true God and to hold allegiance to a false God. So it is impossible to be saved if we willfully reject the teaching of the church and to belligerently believe a heresy.

This is made clear by the Athanasius creed which I believe is the most complete, accurate, and succinct expression of the doctrine of the Trinity that we have received. Which creed states "He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed
I suggest we all read the creed which fear and trembling. This creed use to be a bulwark of the Christian faith in the west but sadly in modern times is falling into disuse, with terrible consequences for the fate of many souls.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Sorry, but I don't understand ...
I'm just saying that it's not fruitful to use that passage because people know it was not in the original.

It's ignored because it's a subtle or not so subtle move -depending upon how one views it - to produce direct quote that supports the trinity concept. Mostly it will be used because it will be "preaching to the converted" if you get my drift. Such a "small lie/error " when one has such a large and emotive topic as the trinity.

Subtle tactic when such a greater weight of 'truth' is at stake. In particular it works on those who 'love simplicity' and the emotional and hedonistic types. You know if it 'feels' right it's gotta be right, right?

 

[Groundzero]

Hehehehehe.

 

[meshak]

Hello everyone,
This is my first post here. Hopefully I will get along with you all and we can have some interesting dialogue.
The doctrine of the Trinity is really just a title for a wide range of doctrines which describe the nature of the godhead.
These doctrines have been progressively articulated by Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Theophilus of Antioch, Athanasius and various church councils.
When someone rejects the doctrine of the Trinity it is invariably the case that they are either horribly ignorant or misunderstanding of the what the doctrine actually teaches, or else they are heretics and are holding to a very false notion about God.

It has been made clear by the above authorities, that to be a Christian we must hold as true the fundamental beliefs and tenets of the Christian faith. To reject any part of these truths is to reject the true God and to hold allegiance to a false God. So it is impossible to be saved if we willfully reject the teaching of the church and to belligerently believe a heresy.

This is made clear by the Athanasius creed which I believe is the most complete, accurate, and succinct expression of the doctrine of the Trinity that we have received. Which creed states "He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed
I suggest we all read the creed which fear and trembling. This creed use to be a bulwark of the Christian faith in the west but sadly in modern times is falling into disuse, with terrible consequences for the fate of many souls.

Hi, welcome to the forum. I hope you are not another RCC pushers, we have enough of them already.

You have to remember that Jesus' servants' loyalty should belong to Jesus, not your organization nor your creed.

blessings.

 

[biggandyy]

And we certainly have enough trinity deniers here as well. Also, historical creeds are a marvelous way of both affirming what is true of Christianity and making it easy for the most unlearned to recall.

Simply dismissing a reference to a historical creed as "catholic" simply illustrates the speakers own ignorance/bias.

 

[excubitor]

Would you like to respond to the issues I raised.
I should remind you that none of the early reformers rejected the creeds.
There are still a large number of mainline protestant churches who still uphold the creeds and the doctrine of the Trinity.
Don't you think that my post represents them as well as the RCC and all of the Eastern Orthodox?

Hi, welcome to the forum. I hope you are not another RCC pushers, we have enough of them already.

You have to remember that Jesus' servants' loyalty should belong to Jesus, not your organization nor your creed.

blessings.

 

[Episkopos]

Seeing that God is a Trinity...are those who are anti-trinity against God? Is God not allowed to be what He wishes?

 

[meshak]

Seeing that God is a Trinity...are those who are anti-trinity against God? Is God not allowed to be what He wishes?

Jesus did not teach trinity in the gospels. Why do you add your own doctrine to His messages?

Jesus is the Lord, not added doctrines.

this is for excubitorand and biggandyy too.

 

[aspen]

Questioning the doctrine of the Trinity is consistent with Protesting Catholic doctrine - unfortunately it is as foundational to Christianity as atoms are to matter.

 

[meshak]

Questioning the doctrine of the Trinity is consistent with Protesting Catholic doctrine - unfortunately it is as foundational to Christianity as atoms are to matter.

Yes, I know. That's why Jesus says come out of Babylon. The organizations will not change.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Trinity churches dont have saving doctrines or practice.

 

[biggandyy]

And you do? What secret knowledge do you have that has eluded many Godly and learned men for millennia?

 

[Guestman]

We must ask the Father to open our eyes so that we can see the Light of who He is. There are not 3 Gods
There is but 1 Father..... 1Son/The Word....1 Spirit..... and they are all three One God

1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word{JESUS THE LIVING WORD OF GOD WHO BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
KJV
You can not have God without also receiving of His Word/Jesus and having His Spirit indwelling you

For God is only as good as His Word who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 1:1-5
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
KJV

The Word is Spirit and life you can not have the Father who is Spirit if you can not accept His Word as well for He is His Word and His Word is Life.

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
KJV
1 John 1:1-2
1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
KJV

The words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one" at 1 John 5:7 in many Bibles were added by a later hand in a Latin treatise. They are not in the earliest Greek manuscripts of the Bible, such as the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus of the 4th century.

In order to support the trinity that had become official Catholic (meaning "universal" or "one size fits all" religiously) doctrine during the end of the 4th century under Roman Emperor Theodosius I, someone placed it as supposedly a legitimate Scriptural addition. Even the Catholic Jerusalem Bible (in a footnote) says that these words are not found in any early Greek or the best Latin manuscripts of the Bible, being spurious.

In addition, the reading of "God was made manifest in the flesh" at 1 Timothy 3:16 is an alteration of the oldest reading of "He (who) was made manifest in the flesh". In a seeming attempt to support the trinity, someone carefully altered "He" (Greek hos) to "God" by means of a small alteration of the Greek word hos, changing it into a contraction for God. The oldest Greek manuscripts read "he" instead of "God" and through the efforts of Konstantin Von Tischendorf, it was found that the word "he" is accurate.

And the old "standby" of John 1:1, whereby many Bibles read that "the Word was God" to support the trinity. Because of the lack of a definite article in Koine Greek, many assume that it reads "The Word was God" instead of "the Word was a god." Most never give serious consideration to the contextual reading, in which the word "God" in the 1st instance is preceded by the Greek word ton ("the" in English) whereas in the 2nd instance it is not, but in the 3rd instance it is. Yet of "the Word", in all three instances in verses 1 and 2, the Greek word ho (also"the" in English) precedes the Greek word logos.

Nor do they ask how "the Word" can be "with God" (being mentioned twice) and at the same time be "God". They just accept "orthodox Christianity" teaching on this, that says that Jesus is God, rather than carefully examining the Bible, looking into such Scriptures as John 1:18, whereby it says that "no man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him."(also 1 John 4:12)

Or John 7, in which Jesus says to the Jews: "If anyone desires to do His (God's) will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or (Greek E, meaning "a primary particle of distinction between two connected terms") I speak of my own originality."(John 7:17) Jesus clearly distinguishes himself from God. Or of John 8:28, whereby Jesus says "that I do nothing of my own initiative (he's supposedly God but cannot think for himself); but just as the Father taught me I speak these things". Since Jesus did "nothing of his own initiative" then how is he God or since the Father "taught him", then again how is Jesus God ? Something is amiss if the belief that Jesus is God is true.

However, for those who are willing to allow the Bible to speak for itself rather than forcing a square peg in a round hole, these can readily see that Jesus is as he himself said, God's only-begotten Son, in which the word "begotten" (Greek monogenes, meaning "sole, single of it kind, only") means that Jesus was fathered, is unique, had a beginning.(Rev 3:14) At 2 Corinthians 1:3, the apostle Paul says: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (see also Eph 1:3, 17; Col 1:3)

 

[afaithfulone4u]

guestman, you are Jehovah Witness?