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Trump Triumphant over Globalists and Hailed as Leader of the World!!

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics Forum' started by GISMYS_7, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are "loosed". Bound at the great river Euphrates, and had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, that they should kill the third part of men.

    However, they like the locusts, are not allowed to harm those with the seal of "God" in their foreheads. Those that were "tormented" and "killed", were those who refused to repent. Thus, these four "angels" are working for "God". They are only harming those who do evil.


    My apologies. I am not speaking of some "revived" Roman Empire, but the first "beast" as having been the Roman Empire.

    You lost me with regard to the "little horn" in chapter 11. The only "little horn" that I can place right this second that would apply is the one spoken of in Daniel 7. However, there is something in Revelation that I know I am not currently able to recall with regard to this.

    Unless you are referring to the what would be the "little horn" of Daniel 8 whose actions may be seen in Daniel 11.


    Who is clearly an "angel". Who, also is operating under the direction of "God", in that the locusts are not allowed to torment those with the seal of "God" in their foreheads. But only those who refuse to repent.

    In the Exodus account, the angel which passed through or passed over was also a "destroyer".

    The text is not clear IMO that this angel ascended from the abyss. I admit, there are two manners in which it may possibly be understood. One is, as you are asserting, that Abaddon came forth from the pit, as the king of the pit so to speak. Another, is that this "angel", was also perhaps the watcher over the abyss. I won't claim it to be either way.


    Hmm, I can't agree there. Of the ten horns and seven heads of said "beast":

    Rev 17:10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while.

    Five are fallen. One is.

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour.
    Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast.

    IMO: The five which are fallen: Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius.

    "One is" at the time of the writing of Revelation: Nero

    Nero as the "one is", places the date of the writing of Revelation within the timeframe of 54-66 [68] CE, before the destruction of the city [and probably before the burning of the city under Nero circa 66 CE] and the sanctuary as spoken of in:

    Daniel 9:26 For the people of the prince that shall come ...

    It was under Vespasian [the seventh], under whom the sanctuary was destroyed in his second year [cf Wars 6.4.8].


    We come to a curious point: Circa 285 CE

    In 285 CE, Diocletian split the Roman Empire in half, in two.
    The western Roman Empire and the eastern Roman Empire
    [aka Byzantine Empire]

    Enter Maximianus, who ruled with Diocletian. Maximianus,
    who was briefly abdicated, and returned to reign.

    1) Diocletian 284 - 305 CE
    2) Maximianus 286 - 310 CE
    3) Caraisius 287 - 293 CE
    4) Allectus 293 - 296 CE
    5) Domitius Domitianus 296 - 297 CE
    6) Constantius Chlorus 305 - 306 CE
    7) Galerius 305 - 311 CE
    8) Maxentius 306 - 312 CE
    9) Velerius Romulus 306 - 309 CE
    10) Severus II 306 - 307 CE

    Ten kings in the space of 22 years, ten kings, who reign but a short time.

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour.
    Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast.


    And enter Constantine the Great: 307 - 337 CE.
     
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  2. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    Do you honestly believe that Trump is seen as a great leader around the world?
    In all honesty we are suppose to pray for and accept whoever has authority over us, so did you thank God for the last president of the USA , would you have thanked God if Clinton had got in. Do I thank God for the British leaders , past and present - not sure I did, or do. I have lost respect for most of the people in power because there are so many hidden agendas.
    The only authority I truly trust in is Gods.
    Respect is something that is earned, much depends on what they say and what they do.
    By the way , is his Twitter account for real, seriously, I am really curious about that. I do not have Twitter but hear about his comments all the time from my son - just wondered if it is really him that writes the stuff.
    Butterfly
     
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  3. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    Face Truth!! Are you looking for Jesus to return to catch up (rapture) believers TODAY or do you think Jesus will return after the tribulation?? If so why do you think you would be ready to meet Jesus TODAY? As you think His return is years away??
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    my understanding is that Trump used psychometrics to get elected--fascinating stuff, imo--and every tweet was calculated. Dunno about now though
     
  5. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    um...no?
     
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  6. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    Really, and apparantly the British were involved !
    Personally I don't think his tweets actually help him- he doesn't appear to have any tact, but that's just my opinion X
    Butterfly
     
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  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    yes, but this is because they were designed to appeal to someone else, and our reaction to the tweets becomes irrelevant. Iow we were never considered when the tweets were worded, because we were not the specific target audience that the tweets were designed for, that being "swing voters," i guess.

    personally i don't think his tweets help either, yet nonetheless the guy somehow "miraculously" got elected, right? lol.
    See, if you can get a majority behind you, who cares what the 49% think?
     
  8. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    ' miraculously ' somehow gives me hope that God had a part in the result, We had the same with our vote for coming out of Europe, I knew in my heart as I voted that it was right to vote to leave , even though I went to vote with no real idea of which way to vote. I had immense peace about it. I was totally amazed when I heard the result, while everyone at work was in panic mode , I just knew God was in the result.
    I believe God is truly using the present uncertainties and power struggles.
    Butterfly
     
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  9. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    I never differentiated who the locusts go after as those who are and aren't doing 'evil', because that's not what it says anyway. I keep it simple and conclude they only go after those who are not saved or of his bride, which is what it means to have God's seal to begin with as I understand it.


    His actions can also be seen in Daniel 7 and
    revelation itself actually.




    He quite plainly refers to the angel that is from the bottomless pit as the king. Its pretty straight forward to me as both being one and the same person.

    Well, actually, I believe that the seventh head from which the beast rises as the eighth will come from somewhere within the region that Rome once ruled over, in Europe. This is based on Daniel chapter 8 in fact. In that chapter, he gives a prophecy of a ram with two horns he refers to as the medo-
    Persian empire. Shorty afterwards the ram gets smashed by the he goat with a large horn from the west he identifies as the Grecian empire. Its about the conquests of king Alexander which then collapses into four different horns or kingdoms which indeed Rome later took over. Its out of one of those horns that the little horn will rise. At no point does he state the little horn to be of any nationality, or even human born, but only specifies the region from which he will rise out of the bottomless pit. Therefore, he definitely won't have anything at all to do with America.

    The duration that this little horn is said to rule in this chapter fits with the one week prophecy in Daniel 9. You believe this was already fulfilled, but that's not how Jesus Christ interpreted any of it. He saw every bit of this as purely end times prophecy.



    Here is another problem with your interpretation. Are these ten kings ruling WITH the beast or before the beast? The only way your interpretation makes sense if I were to take a strictly preterist view which claims that all of Revelation has already occurred.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ha...i guess we have to admit that either one would have repped the will of the people; but what a sad statement that is, too. This is the first election that has ever been won that way, i guess. Baseball was recently completely changed in a similar manner; they made a movie about it? Which for some reason is striking me as the "good" psychometrics, being all about the actual "fruit" of a player, whereas Trump's are all about playing to a particular audiences' desires.

    Guess you would have to be fam with the baseball ref though, to get that, lol. I'll try to recall the name of the movie.
    Ah, Moneyball, preview: Trailer #1
    movie: Watch Moneyball quanlity HD with english at Putlocker
    (click play, close ad, click play again, watch movie)
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  11. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    *SIGH*

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    Truth!!! Logic!!! and Think!!
    Jesus says He is is coming for those looking for His return!!! Think! Why would Jesus say that unless those not looking for Him are left behind?? Who is Jesus coming for??===Jesus=He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to """all who are eagerly waiting for him""". Hebrews 9:28 Those that believe Jesus will not return before the tribulation are not looking for Jesus to return today unless they think the tribulation years are all ready over!!!
     
  13. Butterfly

    Butterfly Guest

    Thanks for the link , I will try and watch it , I must admit I do not know a thing about baseball !! Lol
     
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  14. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    Which, isn't that also a manner of differentiation, just from a different perspective.



    So we agree there.


    As I said, I won't claim it either way. That you state the angel is "from" is fine by me if that is how you understand it.

    If I am understanding you correctly, an "angel" which is / was bound, is a "beast" that is given it's authority by the dragon / devil.


    From my perspective, the seventh is one of the heads of the same "beast". The "beast" that was / is / shall is an eighth that is out of the seven. That eighth, is a "beast" that is a head of the "beast" which had seven and ten.


    Perhaps this is the source of my not following you correctly.


    Here we digress. For in Daniel 8, there is a distinct "little horn" from out of the four that are Greece. That "little horn" is a distinct and different "little horn" from the one from out the ten spoken of in Daniel 7, which is Rome.
    There is a "little horn" during the time Greece. And another from out of the ten of Rome.


    I have to ask you to be a little more clear here. You are obviously referring to the "little horn" of Daniel 8, which was out of the four that were Greece.



    Here, it would seem that as I have not understood you in places, or am in need of more clarity, that I must make clear my understanding:


    I do not believe that was fulfilled by the time of Christ. The "little horn" of Daniel 8 from out of Greece as fulfilled. That had occurred. However the "little horn" out of the ten, out of Rome, was yet to be at the time of Christ.


    Here, based upon our different understandings, is where I need clarification from you. For from my perspective, they are "with" the "beast", though perhaps not in the manner you understand it. For it is from out of these ten, that the "little horn" of Daniel 7 comes forth [cf Dan 7:24].


    Like I said, while not a preterist, I am nearly a preterist. And all of Revelation has clearly not occurred.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    oh, that isn't really necessary; i mostly included the movie because it was good, and based on a true story. The point is really that a World Series was almost won on data, and how it changed the game
     
  16. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    I would be in agreement with this, if Daniel 7 wasn't all about the end times. For your theory to work, the little horn in Daniel 7 would have to be described as a kingdom, which it isn't, its described as distinct from the rest as an individual that, in the end will get tossed in the fire along with Satan and the false prophet.

    Well, again, Jesus Christ disagrees with you about all of Daniel 8 being fulfilled already. I'll believe what my savior thought on the matter before anyone else. He makes understanding the book a little easier for me.


    Actually, there is a bit of an error on my part in my understanding of John's statement that he is "of the seventh". You see, as I kind of said before, the seven heads aren't actually described as kingdoms, but as seven kings or individuals. The reason the beast himself is described as one of them goes all the way back to Revelation 13 where he dies and rises again.

    In other words, the beast that was alive, and then was not as the seventh horn, even he is of the eight because he rose again, and shall be tossed into the fire. The only actual kingdoms being described in both Daniel and Revelation are the lion, the bear, the leopard, and the beast that both the ten horns, or ten kings, and the little horn rose out of. And like I've been saying, I believe there is a difference between the way Daniel describes the four beast kingdoms versus John that everyone seems to miss. Daniel describes the four beasts rising out of the sea as diverse from one another, after which the little horn rises out of the fourth one. John however, describes the four beasts as one beast, which I believe is well after the little horn makes an appearance, because I keep it real simple and believe John when he plainly refers to Apollyon as "the beast that ascends out of the pit" back in chapter 11. This is where much of the confusion comes from concerning the beast kingdoms, versus the beast that's gets tossed into the fire.

     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  17. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    "One of these words is not like the others,
    one of these words just doesn't beloooong..."


    lol
     
  18. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    :D You and me both. LOL
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    imo it is basically a crime, what churches do to people. They mostly seem to crank out compliant fascists, and that we are living in an Empire in the Decline/Decadence stage is never even addressed. Instead, the emperors are exalted, and anyone who disagrees becomes "lost."
     
  20. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    I am beginning to better understand your position. From my perspective, it doesn't require the little horn of Daniel 7 to be described as a kingdom. For he is a horn / king / leader of the fourth beast / kingdom / nation who comes out of the ten.


    Daniel 7 is not quite indicative of that from my perspective. Add in Revelation 13, and we still do not have quite that indication. It is not until we get to Revelation 17, that we get such an indication. Personally, I am not convinced that the little horn of Daniel 7 and the eighth / beast / perdition are one in the same.


    Like I said: Daniel 7 was still future at the time of Jesus. Daniel 8, was fulfilled during the time of Greece, through Antiochus Epiphanes IV.




    Yes, seven heads or individuals that rule over and during the same beast / kingdom. As for Revelation 13, one of the heads was mortally wounded, I don't see it necessarily dieing and rising again. Rather that whatever the wound was, the beast itself survived the wound. However, neither do I have all the answers. There are some things that I know, others, I can only speculate with regard unto. I have a theory regarding the mortal wound / slain, however as I can not prove it, I shall omit it here.


    Here we digress. In Daniel, it is Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. Babylon fell to the wayside under Belshazzar, son of Nabonidus [cf Dan 5:30]. From there, enter Darius the Mede [circa 539 BCE]. Now we enter the Medo-Persian kingdom, the second beast of Daniel.

    An inscription found in Ur in 1853 confirms the above, it reads: "May it be that I, Nabonidus, king of Babylon, never fail you. And may my firtstborn, Belshazzar ... "

    Darius the Mede [not king], 62 years of age. There is no Darius the Mede in external texts that I have found. According to external historical records, we come upon Gubaru [a Mede] who was appointed by King Cyrus to be ruler over Babylon. Gubaru is said to have born circa 601 BCE which makes him 62 circa 539 BCE [cf Dan 5:31].

    According to the Babylonian record:
    "In the month of Tashritu, at the time when Cyrus battled the forces of Akkad in Opis on the Tigris river, the citizens of Akkad revolted against him, but Nabonidus scattered his opposition with a great slaughter. On the 14th day, Sippar was taken without a fight. Nabonidus then fled for his life. On the 16th day, Gubaru [Darius the Mede] the leader of Gutium along with the army of Cyrus entered Babylon without any opposition. Later they arrested Nabonidus
    when he returned to Babylon. ... Cyrus then sent his best wishes to the residents living there. His governor, Gubaru, then installed leaders to govern over all Babylon." [cf Dan 6:1-7].

    King Cyrus of Persia records of Belshazzar:
    "A coward was put in charge as the king ... with evil intent he did away with ... and desecrated the worship of the king of his gods, Marduk."

    According to the historians Xenophon, Berosus and Herodutus: "Cyrus then dug a trench and diverted the flow of the Euphrates river into the new channel which led to a swamp. The level of
    the river then dropped to such a level that it became like a stream. His army was then able to take the city by marching through the shallow waters ... The Babylonians at the time were
    celebrating a feast to one of their gods and they were taken by total surprise."

    The Babylonian Chronicles state that Babylon fell the equivalent date of Oct. 13 of the year 539 BCE.

    So now we are up to circa 539 BCE with Gubaru ruling over Babylon as appointed by King Cyrus of Persia.

    Josephus records in Ant. 10.11.4:
    "but when Babylon was taken by Darius, and when he, with his kinsman Cyrus, had put an end to the dominion of the Babylonians, he was sixty-two years old. He was the son of Astyages, and had another name among the Greeks" [What that name was, is not known. However,
    from the Babylonian Record, we see Gubaru].

    The same Darius [Gubaru] who threw Daniel to the lions only to make the decree in of Daniel 6:25-27. And Daniel prospered in the reign of Darius, and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian [cf Dan 6:28].


    Circa 334 BCE Alexander invades Persia ruled Asia Minor in a series of campaigns that lasts ten years.

    Circa 336 BCE, Philip II of Macedon is assassinated and Alexander the Great takes the throne. The first king and prominent horn of the he-goat. Circa 332 BCE, Alexander overthrows Darius III, king of Persia and conquers the entirety of the Persian Empire. Later in 332 BCE Alexander advances upon Egypt. Circa 331 BCE Alexander advances into Mesopotamia.

    Circa June of 323 BCE, Alexander dies of unknown causes. Many theories of poisonings / various diseases abound.

    War ensued within the kingdom of Greece with various factions all vying for power until it finally settled into four parts:

    North : Asia Minor ; Lysimachus

    West : Macedonia ; Cassander

    East : Syria ; Selecus. Out of which came Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who reigned circa 175 - 164 BCE. The Selecid Empire fell under Pompey of the Roman Republic circa 63 BCE.

    South : Egypt ; Ptolemy. Which was invaded by Antiochus Epiphanes IV circa 170 BCE with AE IV leaving Ptolemy as a puppet king. After years of war the southern kingdom allied itself for Rome for 150 years only to eventually succomb and be annexed by Rome.

    Now we have the four horns in place of the great horn that was broken off [cf Dan 8:22]. All of these, are of the beast which was Greece. They are still part of the third beast out of the sea.

    AE IV made war and invaded the South circa 170 BCE, capturing Ptolemy, and leaving him as a puppet king. Circa 167 BCE, AE IV returns to Jerusalem, outlawed Jewish customs and sparked the Maccabean revolt circa 167-160 BCE.

    AE IV meets his demise circa 164 BCE.

    AE IV was the little horn from out of the four [cf Dan 8:9] He is the one spoken of in Daniel 11:32-45.

    Again, this is all still a part of the third beast out of the sea, the he-goat, which is Greece.

    The fourth beast out of the sea, having ten horns, out of which also comes a little horn [cf Dan 7:7-8] had not as of that time come to pass. That beast is Rome.

    Aside from being prophesied of by Daniel, nowhere within Daniel are the exploits of Rome accounted for. Under AE IV, the sanctuary was desecrated, but not destroyed of which Daniel 9:26 is clear that the temple would be destroyed, which it was under Rome. It is during this time, that the abomination of desolation that Jesus spoke of was to come.

    The book of Revelation takes off in describing the 4th beast out of the sea as spoken of by Daniel. The beast with 10 horns, from out of which comes a second little horn. All of which, were yet to be at the writing of Revelation.

    Yeah, I did it again, get overly verbose and long winded.

    To be continued
     
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