Truth needs truth, that's the truth. (thoughts?)

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So there is an absolute gem of a truth, in the Bible. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, but by Me" (from memory, John). The reason that this truth is a gem, is that it hits on the notion of relationship, in a way that no other words do. You could be in need, and "the way" would be relevant to you; you could have a strength, and "the truth" would be relevant to you; you could have an expectation, and "the life" would be relevant to you. All these things, set out, how to relate to God. Relating to God, is great. Basically Jesus is saying, how ever you want to relate to God, I'm your Man. That's faith, in an absolutely superlative way. But what about the end, of relating to God - does that take more effort?

The truth I want to share, is actually very simple; the end of relating to God, can be encapsulated very simply - while remaining true, to the original thought, that Jesus set out, in the verse above. What do you do, with it? Though?

Truth needs truth, that's the truth (selah)

The question of whether this is superlative, at least by virtue of its relationship to Jesus, is an open question. I have cut it short, deliberately, so as to sharpen the mind, as to what truth is. If truth needs truth, then there is a context for saying that truth will find truth - which is one of the more powerful messages Christ gave, when He said "if you have done it for the least, you have done it for Me" (from memory, the gospels). It's not so easy to wait on Christ, when you have the way and nothing else. But truth, that needs truth, is able to justify itself.

The connection (with self-justified truth) is in the idea, that the truth will know that it is the truth it needs. This transcends relativism altogether! There is real power, in expecting words to develop their own expectation, that the truth will need all truth, if it is to be complete truth. If it is complete and justified, then approaching God, with such truth, it for all reasons possible. Possible truth, is powerful. There is a mystery in this, though, that truth, even if it is truth that needs itself, is still true. It's (truth's) needing truth, does not diminish its truth! As such, the truth can only ever get more powerful.

So, can we trust the truth, to need itself (the truth)? The answer is yes! Even if we are silent, and our words can't be heard by the world, our words still have power, because the truth that was in them (in the truth), found itself the truth, in the truth (that is, it no longer needed anything but itself). This is, in a sense, what it means to die. Dying means, being the truth truth needs, despite death. That is a resurrectable statement, right there (that truth is the truth, despite death). Knowing this dynamic inside and out, takes some work: but if it is work, in the truth, it is worthwhile. Can you do it? Can you find the truth, that the truth needs?

I hope this has been an engaging discussion, for you.

God bless.

 

[Zachariah]

Interesting post. Truth is a much loved subject of mine so ill share a little bit about what I understand. To begin with "The way, the truth and life" Jesus is refering to the divine trinity. The truth being the father himself.

Its important to understand that like the father, truth cannot be understood in the sence that it cannot be of the interlect. Truth is of unseen nature just like faith. Sometimes when we have big revilation or a light bulb moment as such, what we are feeling is the purification proccess of "seen" knowledge into "unseen" Truth. Both truth and wisdom are similar and throughout the bible gold is used to symbolise this. Why gold? Because to extract it, it needs to undergo a purification prossess to become pure gold. Just like knowlage needs to undergo purification to achieve its pure form, Truth.

Truth is something that you know and feel. People, especially us Christians will argue all day about weather or not jesus was resserected or weather Mary was a virgin. When we focus on the seen aspects of things and try to intellectualise it we are completely missing the truth. This is common tho since the truth cannot be seen .

How do we extract the truth you mite be thinking. Well that's through pattern recognition and is the reason the bible has been written the way it has. When we undergo pattern recognition and see the similarity in two things that are different, this is where we find the truth. As God is whole, so shall we see things this way.

When we fight, we "settle our differences". This is Truth. This is God.

 

[Gottservant]

Interesting post. Truth is a much loved subject of mine so ill share a little bit about what I understand. To begin with "The way, the truth and life" Jesus is refering to the divine trinity. The truth being the father himself.

[...]

When we fight, we "settle our differences". This is Truth. This is God.

I feel like you got so close to the truth, with this post.

Like the process of converting knowledge to unseen truth, was somehow dependable, that is, dependable on the nature of truth.

We are too clever sometimes, the truth can escape us - because we try too hard.

 

[Zachariah]

I feel

I feel like you got so close to the truth, with this post.

Like the process of converting knowledge to unseen truth, was somehow dependable, that is, dependable on the nature of truth.

We are too clever sometimes, the truth can escape us - because we try too hard.

Pattern recognition and corralative thinking my friend. All religions, faiths, philosophy, symboligy, any esoteric knowlage you can find and of course nature around you. Throw it all into a pot of knowlage, bubble it down and purify it. Never limit yourself to one body of knowlage or religion, this is boxing in your conciousness, is a form of mind controle and a suppression of truth.

Enjoy the journey and may the truth set you free.

 

[Gottservant]

Pattern recognition and corralative thinking my friend. All religions, faiths, philosophy, symboligy, any esoteric knowlage you can find and of course nature around you. Throw it all into a pot of knowlage, bubble it down and purify it. Never limit yourself to one body of knowlage or religion, this is boxing in your conciousness, is a form of mind controle and a suppression of truth.

Enjoy the journey and may the truth set you free.

It's as if we almost expect the truth, to recreate itself? Don't you think?

Like we have an internal standard "if this fact, doesn't become a greater fact: I won't believe it's true!"

Somehow conversion is part of the truth (even if all you are dealing with is facts).

The more you "need" truth, the greater your sense of the truth becomes.

 

[Zachariah]

It's as if we almost expect the truth, to recreate itself? Don't you think?

Like we have an internal standard "if this fact, doesn't become a greater fact: I won't believe it's true!"

Somehow conversion is part of the truth (even if all you are dealing with is facts).

The more you "need" truth, the greater your sense of the truth becomes.

Truth is kinda like money in the sence that the more you have, the more you can make.

Mt 13:31-32: "Here is another illustration Jesus used: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed planted in a field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but it becomes the largest of garden plants; it grows into a tree, and birds come and make nests in its branches.”"

It is not however, superstition. Superstition as in the belief that physicle resserection is possible for e.g. A good example of pattern recognition is with these series of scriptures where jesus resserects people or himself and also heals the blind to see. Life to Death, Dark to Light, Under to Above are all the same thing.

When the water is below and the wind or a mountain is above, we see this when moses walks the Israelites through the water to the mountain. We see this in noahs ark with the water flood and the boat coming to rest on a mountain. We see this in Jonah with three days in water and darkness to be shot up into the air. We see it in baptism when we go under the water then up and out again. Jesus turns dark to light and makes people see the truth. He resserects people from death to experience the life. The water into wine, once again death to life.

The bible is written in this way to trigger pattern recognition in the brain. Its a technique the ancients where aware of in the means to expand ones truth and conciousness. It could also be seen as your third eye.

One of my favourite scriptures comes from the rejected and suppressed gospel of thomas:

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." - Gospel of Thomas

 

[Gottservant]

I doubt the gospel of Thomas, but I am interested in your notion of pattern recognition.

Our pattern recognition is different in Heaven, but it is still pattern recognition (even then), don't you think?

I (pattern recognition) is like the dark matter of the soul, what keeps it together?

 

[Zachariah]

Pattern recognition is a spiritual knowlage to truth "de fragmentation". In our inner world the ego is our fragmented aspect where when we put the ego to death we become whole in God. If we zoom out a level, we see individual people as the fragments and when we die we go back to the source which is whole (Heaven). We as people are manifestations of ego and fragmented individuality, this is why the body is considered sin. The physicle realm we see around us is sin manifest, it is all subject to change and is slowly moving towards death.

Wholeness and perfection we cannot see, if we could see it, it would be subject to change, if we can see something we can judge it therefore it holds judgement and is not perfect.

The gospel of Thomas is a beautiful piece of work and is full of hidden truth. I dont claim that these are in fact the words of jesus, I do however claim the truth within these words to be very powerful regardless of who wrote it or where it came from. These who, what, when, and how facts are irrelevant to truth.

 

[Gottservant]

Pattern recognition is a spiritual knowlage to truth "de fragmentation". In our inner world the ego is our fragmented aspect

[...]

My take on that, is that in the beginning we had "too much" of what God made us, to build on. We had to whittle down the greater being, to something could respond to His Love. That's where you get the idea "we were just a fragment", but to justify it you need to compromise the abundance that God actually gave you.

The gospel of Thomas is a beautiful piece of work and is full of hidden truth. I dont claim that these are in fact the words of jesus, I do however claim the truth within these words to be very powerful regardless of who wrote it or where it came from. These who, what, when, and how facts are irrelevant to truth.

That is true, to a large extent, that who, what, when are irrelevant to truth - but that is because we have the Holy Spirit, to evaluate writing on its merits.

All that said, I don't want to discourage you from seeking out truth, in the direction you are: I think diversity does a much better job of bringing us to God, than any one particular opinion.

 

[Gottservant]

The Law should not get in the way of obeying the Law, that's the Law.

 

[Zachariah]

The Law should not get in the way of obeying the Law, that's the Law.

Read these discussions on Natural Law vs man's law. What makes a doctrine false?

 

[Gottservant]

The Law should not get in the way of obeying the Law, that's the Law.

In other words, the Law can not be completed, unless it is created (to begin with).

 

[MatthewG]

Truth is one should be truthful before their maker while here on this earth in taking the narrow way, than the broad way that leads to ruin.

It’s truly amazing that you can be honest before your father in heaven, about all of your issues that you’re going on with. And to know that your sins are forgiven and you can be able to do this. Which, of course is giving over your flesh the problems to the Lord God in heaven, to help you by the spirit truly amazing.

 

[Gottservant]

Truth is one should be truthful before their maker while here on this earth in taking the narrow way, than the broad way that leads to ruin.

It’s truly amazing that you can be honest before your father in heaven, about all of your issues that you’re going on with. And to know that your sins are forgiven and you can be able to do this. Which, of course is giving over your flesh the problems to the Lord God in heaven, to help you by the spirit truly amazing.

Such is the power of the Gospel!

 

[MatthewG]

And your God given voice to speak! Even ifs it in your soul. (Some people are mute).