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Featured TWO GOSPELS PREACHED

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Doug, May 31, 2019.

  1. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hebrews 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

    3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

    3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    Israel, in the wilderness, was promised a rest. Israel, because of unbelief, did not enter into that rest.

    Numbers 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

    14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

    Israel murmured, and rebelled against the Lord. Israel, in unbelief, did not obey the Lord in regard to entering the land as commanded; and because of this, they fell in the wilderness.

    Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

    4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

    4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    Unto the Hebews, a promise remained for rest; if they believed.

    Above we read that the gospel was preached "unto us", as well as "unto them".

    What gospel was preached to Israel in the wilderness?

    Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

    Above, is the gospel preached to Israel in the wilderness. Israel was to possess the promised land.

    The Hebrews in Hebrews 3:8 were not to harden theirs hearts, in departing from God, as they did in the wilderness.

    Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

    4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

    4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

    4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    In the passage above, the gospel preached to the present Hebrews is conveyed. These Hebrews can enter into the promised rest if they obey their gospel. Their gospel is that they can enter the remaining promised rest, through belief.

    The gospel of entering into God's rest through belief in the book of Hebrews is not the same gospel given to Israel in the wilderness to possess the land. It can clearly be seen that there is more than one gospel in the Bible.
     
  2. Laish

    Laish Well-Known Member

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    Ok so the point is ?
    Blessings
    Bill
     
  3. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    There is more than one gospel and the only one that saves today is Paul's.
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    they rebelled aganist the Lord JESUS in the wilderness, and also under Roman rule. for he is their rest,
    Matthew 11:28 "Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    Matthew 11:29 "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    Matthew 11:30 "For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

    but as then the same gospel was preached. Galatians 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed".

    for they believed by Faith, supportive scripture. Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
    Hebrews 11:14 "For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
    Hebrews 11:15 "And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
    Hebrews 11:16 "But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
    Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
    Hebrews 11:18 "Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
    Hebrews 11:19 "Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.


    Hebrews 11:39 "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
    Hebrews 11:40 "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    Hmmmm "not perfect?".
    the OT saints their perfection was not by the law, which made nothing perfect, but by Christ, and through his sacrifice, blood, and righteousness; and so were not made perfect without us; since their sins and ours are expiated together by the same sacrifice; their persons and ours justified together by the same righteousness; they and we make up but one church, and general assembly; and as yet all the elect of God among the Jews are not called, and so are not perfect in themselves, or without us. Jews and Gentiles will incorporate together in the latter day; and besides, they and we shall be glorified together, in soul and body, to all eternity. Gill's comm.

    PICJAG
     
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  5. Laish

    Laish Well-Known Member

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    Ok . Looking at the following part from you response
    I have a few questions.
    1 You said Paul’s Gospel. Do you mean just what Paul said . Meaning some form of exclusivity in the New Testament? Or perhaps meaning what is found in the whole of the New Testament?
    2 You said one that saves today . So did the let’s say the old gospel save in the same way as the new , giving forgiveness of sin and eternal life?
    Those two are tops of my list of questions.
    Just looking for some clarity. Just trying to see where you are coming from.
    Blessings
    Bill
     
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  6. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello Bill
    No problem with the questions
    Paul's gospel was hid in God (Ephesians 3:9) and only revealed to him by Christ (Romans 16:25 Galatians 1:12).
    Paul's gospel is the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24) which can be found in his epistles (Romans 3:21-26 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

    Everyone is saved by grace through faith and believing God. The old testament saints believed what was revealed to them and were saved.
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is only one Gospel which has been preached to Abraham, to the Israelites, and to the world.

    And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (Gal 3:8,9)

    And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (Jn 3:14,15)
     
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  8. MetalMike

    MetalMike Active Member

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    I agree with what you posted here. And this is just my opinion based on my scripture reading, but it would appear that the Law (and the man-made Temple laws) took precedence over the Gospel, which provided the perfect timing for Jesus to make his Earthly appearance. The world needed to be reminded of the Gospel.
     
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  9. Wafer

    Wafer Active Member

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    What you have noticed is that portions of the bible are addressed to various groups of people. Overall, the bible is addressed to believers. That is to say it causes division, dividing believers from unbelievers and obedient from disobedient. Most of the old testament is addressed to the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, the people now called Jews. The rest of the tribes were addressed separately. Gentiles were addressed separately. Christians were addressed separately. There also are oikonomia, translated dispensations, which we now call administrations. Like administrations in US government, some things are different while the overall laws remain the same.

    Naysayers accuse bible students of "cherry picking", but these concepts are well known and practiced everywhere in all disciplines. Only in bible study are they alleged to be mistakes.
     
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  10. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No...not two gospels, but "my two witnesses."
     
  11. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Not precedence. The services of the tabernacle and the temple in later years, confirmed by ask the prophets, was the same gospel preached by Paul. The just shall live by faith.
     
  12. MetalMike

    MetalMike Active Member

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    I agree that it was the same gospel. However, it was the Jewish religious leaders who made their man-made traditions and laws equivalent (or, in same cases, more important) to the gospel. And Jesus called them out on this.
     
  13. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I think there is also a sense in which revelation had various stages before the Bible was finally complete. So what people understood in faith would at times differ in stages of divine revelation.
     
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  14. MetalMike

    MetalMike Active Member

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    And that's a good point. I think more people in the Roman Empire era of Israel "got it" after Jesus was crucified, if that makes sense. I mean, the Jewish people of that time were expecting a Messiah of significant military and political power, so Jesus didn't meet their expectations of a Messiah.
     
  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I do think the Epistle to the Hebrews is an excellent guide as to the wondrous way in which divine revelation in the fully revealed Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ is seen so clearly to be superior to anything that went before or even could possible be. :)
     
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  16. MetalMike

    MetalMike Active Member

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    Hebrews is one my favorite NT books. Whoever authored Hebrews (and that's up for debate since the author is unknown, but biblical scholars have ruled out Paul due to the writing style) did an outstanding job pointing to Jesus as the Messiah, and explains it very well to the Jewish people.
     
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  17. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    There is only one Gospel, and it is to the Jew and to the Greek; Romans 1:16.
     
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  18. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    1. The Gospel of life is at the heart of Jesus' message. Lovingly received day after day by the Church, it is to be preached with dauntless fidelity as "good news" to the people of every age and culture.

    At the dawn of salvation, it is the Birth of a Child which is proclaimed as joyful news: "I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; for to you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord" (Lk 2:10-11). The source of this "great joy" is the Birth of the Saviour; but Christmas also reveals the full meaning of every human birth, and the joy which accompanies the Birth of the Messiah is thus seen to be the foundation and fulfilment of joy at every child born into the world (cf. Jn 16:21).

    When he presents the heart of his redemptive mission, Jesus says: "I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly" (Jn 10:10). In truth, he is referring to that "new" and "eternal" life which consists in communion with the Father, to which every person is freely called in the Son by the power of the Sanctifying Spirit. It is precisely in this "life" that all the aspects and stages of human life achieve their full significance.

    The incomparable worth of the human person

    2. Man is called to a fullness of life which far exceeds the dimensions of his earthly existence, because it consists in sharing the very life of God. The loftiness of this supernatural vocation reveals the greatness and the inestimable value of human life even in its temporal phase. Life in time, in fact, is the fundamental condition, the initial stage and an integral part of the entire unified process of human existence. It is a process which, unexpectedly and undeservedly, is enlightened by the promise and renewed by the gift of divine life, which will reach its full realization in eternity (cf. 1 Jn 3:1-2). At the same time, it is precisely this supernatural calling which highlights the relative character of each individual's earthly life. After all, life on earth is not an "ultimate" but a "penultimate" reality; even so, it remains a sacred reality entrusted to us, to be preserved with a sense of responsibility and brought to perfection in love and in the gift of ourselves to God and to our brothers and sisters.

    The Church knows that this Gospel of life, which she has received from her Lord, 1 has a profound and persuasive echo in the heart of every person-believer and non-believer alike-because it marvellously fulfils all the heart's expectations while infinitely surpassing them. Even in the midst of difficulties and uncertainties, every person sincerely open to truth and goodness can, by the light of reason and the hidden action of grace, come to recognize in the natural law written in the heart (cf. Rom 2:14-15) the sacred value of human life from its very beginning until its end, and can affirm the right of every human being to have this primary good respected to the highest degree. Upon the recognition of this right, every human community and the political community itself are founded.

    In a special way, believers in Christ must defend and promote this right, aware as they are of the wonderful truth recalled by the Second Vatican Council: "By his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in some fashion with every human being".2 This saving event reveals to humanity not only the boundless love of God who "so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (Jn 3:16), but also the incomparable value of every human person.

    The Church, faithfully contemplating the mystery of the Redemption, acknowledges this value with ever new wonder.3 She feels called to proclaim to the people of all times this "Gospel", the source of invincible hope and true joy for every period of history. The Gospel of God's love for man, the Gospel of the dignity of the person and the Gospel of life are a single and indivisible Gospel.

    For this reason, man-living man-represents the primary and fundamental way for the Church. 4
    EVANGELIUM VITAE
     
  19. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Here is Paul's gospel:

    1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    Here is the gospel preached to Abraham:

    Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    Christ is not in this gospel; the cross and that Christ died for the sins of all is not in this gospel; If you were Abraham could you know that you were justified by believing in Jesus? This was not yet revealed.

    Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Abraham believed what was revealed to him.

    There is one gospel in a sense, and that is the gospel of God; the progressive revelation of our full salvation. The individual gospels given from Adam unto Paul constitute the gospel of God.
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Try your dance-around against the Gospel that Abraham believed according to Apostle Paul, especially if you're going to claim Paul's gospel...

    Gal 3:6-9
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    KJV

    Gal 3:13-14
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    KJV

    Gal 3:17-18
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    KJV

    Gal 3:22
    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    KJV

    Gal 3:29
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    KJV

    Rom 4:9-14
    9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
    10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
    11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

    12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
    13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
    KJV
     
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