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Two In The Field One Is Taken One Is Left

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Love123, Jul 21, 2006.

  1. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    TWO IN THE FIELD ONE IS TAKEN ONE IS LEFT...IS THIS RAPTURE?........(No)Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other leftThis is not Rapture; this would mean half of the worlds population is taken up in the Rapture.A full half of the worlds population does not believe.This is referring to Judgment.As it was in Noahs day..They were eating and drinking and marrying and working and so forth.Unaware and then the rains came.Judgment.So it will be for the Second Coming of Christ two in the fields..One shall be taken and sent to the millennium ... The other shall perish..This refers to Judgment.... Not Rapture.
     
  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    This also appears in Matthew 24.Matthew 24:40-46Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.Our Lord comes but once and blessed are those who are found in the field working by doing the work of the Lord! The ones who have left are the ones who will participate in the falsehood of the rapture where you fly away magically before Christ comes even though the Bible clearly speaks of a Second Advent (or Coming) not Second Advents (or Second Comings). They are not hoping to escape persecution, but they are willing and able to die for their Lord and to bring more to know him.
     
  3. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    Our Lord comes but once and blessed are those who are found in the field working by doing the work of the Lord! The ones who have left are the ones who will participate in the falsehood of the rapture where you fly away magically before Christ comes even though the Bible clearly speaks of a Second Advent (or Coming) not Second Advents (or Second Comings). They are not hoping to escape persecution, but they are willing and able to die for their Lord and to bring more to know him.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The scripture clearly states he comes to the clouds...............for the Rapture.Not to earth...........When he comes to earth..................it not for Rapture.............It is Revelation.I wonder you can explain that away?Rev. 4 * After this I looked, and, behold, a door........ Was opened in Heaven*: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, .................Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. .....................................CHRIST CALLS HIS BRIDE. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. 5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.Rev. 19:11 *And I saw heaven opened* ...and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make... war.Looks like two separate events...............once to the clouds and once to earth.To the clouds.... up........up..........first the dead in Christ and then the living.To earth ......down...........down.........Jesus descends with his saints....... The City of the New Jerusalem.
     
  4. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Where in the world do you get the idea that the first description has anything whatsoever to do with this idea of a rapture? Revelation 4 is talking about the vision that John saw and clearly doesn't have anything to do with judgement nor Christ's return from above. If you'll keep reading right on through Revelation 5 and Revelation 6, you'll see that this is setting the stage for the 6 seals, 6 vials, and 6 trumps that are yet to come at this point in the vision. God has given John a view into heaven here.Where, in error, you have the idea that Christ calls his bride, anyone can see that clearly it's John being called to see what he will write down in his vision for us to have for the latter days. Reading into it that John is somehow representative of all Christians is simply foolish.
     
  5. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    (SwampFox)
    Where in the world do you get the idea that the first description has anything whatsoever to do with this idea of a rapture? Revelation 4 is talking about the vision that John saw and clearly doesn't have anything to do with judgement nor Christ's return from above. If you'll keep reading right on through Revelation 5 and Revelation 6, you'll see that this is setting the stage for the 6 seals, 6 vials, and 6 trumps that are yet to come at this point in the vision. God has given John a view into heaven here.Where, in error, you have the idea that Christ calls his bride, anyone can see that clearly it's John being called to see what he will write down in his vision for us to have for the latter days. Reading into it that John is somehow representative of all Christians is simply foolish.
    Chapter four begins the prophetical future.Remember chapter... 1, vs. 19:WRITE THE THINGS WHICH THOU HAS SEEN, AND THE THINGS WHICH ARE AND THE THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER. That text presented three tenses and informed us that the Book of revelation is written in Chronological order.The past- chapter one...The present – chapters two and three.The history of the seven churches to the present time and the future – Chapters 4 through 22.
     
  6. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    That is, of course, ignoring the first person narration of the entire book. I guess we're all going to be doing a lot of writing up in heaven after we're raptured away as we rewrite the book of Revelation:Revelation 21:5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.Not to mention that Revelation 21 spends time describing the city and receiving the measurements of it. The "I" is often commanded by God to write down things or not to write them down. The notion that this is symbolic of all Christians is absurd when you let the Bible do the talking.Oh, and of course lest we forget:Revelation 10:4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.Revelation 22:8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
     
  7. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    It’s easy to take a text out of context and end up with a pretext.To say Come Up Hither was for John and not the Church............Changes the Bible and the following of chronological order.............Has no order does it?
     
  8. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    I don't quite know how the singular noun "I" can be taken out of context but you have indeed done it. I think that's quite clear to see because John establishes a frame around the book of Revelation where he is our guide in a vision sent to him by God. John is our human guide putting human words to explain the glory of God (try to). There is no other explanation for the use of "I" without taking it completely out of context. We see the use of the same first person view in other decidedly prophetic books of the Bible such as Daniel and Ezekiel amongst others. Out of context? I think not.
     
  9. Erudite Celt

    Erudite Celt New Member

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    It has always been my understanding that Luke 17:36 was a furtherance to what he said in chapter 13:25 of the same book: Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' Doing work or deeds for the Lord will not be our salvation. When the Lord comes he will see two brothers working together ,doing the same work but only one will be saved!
    it could not be more clearly stated than the parallel verses in Matthew 7:22-23
    Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
    Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
     
  10. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba New Member

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    I tend to expect a pre-trib rapture .... and certainly expect a pre-wrath rapture ..... yet I always had trouble accepting the phrase ... "one taken ... one left" ... refers to a rapture event.

    There is something like a billion Christians in a world of 6 billion people .... so the numbers do not add up.

    On the other hand if ... "one taken ... one left"... is the rapture ..... could it be possible there is a huge revival where half the world accepts Christ during those times ??

    Just thinking out loud .... I have no firm position on what it means. It has always been a head-scratch-er for me.
     
  11. Erudite Celt

    Erudite Celt New Member

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    Hi Arnie, the billion Christians you speak of are mostly Christians by infant baptism. The vast majority of those born Christian go on to live secular lives so aren't Christians in the biblical sense only the demographical sense. The once saved always saved belief of many Christians has coloured the truth of salvation.
     
  12. revturmoil

    revturmoil New Member

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    This is not the rapture. This is the separation of the sheep and goats which is a judgment that determines who enters the millenium.
     
  13. Erudite Celt

    Erudite Celt New Member

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    @'kaoticprofit' Ref you sig: Habakkuk 1:19 (the jihadist) They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, (5 times a day) and they shall gather the captivity as the sand. (world domination)

    Did you not know that it is a grave sin to add to or take away from the words recorded in the Old and New Testaments? I cannot find a reference to (5 times a day) in any of my bibles! Habakkuk is also referring to the Chaldean victory over Judah. This was a prophesy already fulfilled centuries before Christ and the advent of Islam.
     
  14. revturmoil

    revturmoil New Member

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    I disagree with you!

    Habakkuk 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
     
  15. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Luke 17:34-37
    34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
    35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
    (KJV)

    The answer to what the one taken and the other left is about is given in that very last verse. Christ gave a parallel verse to that in Matt.24:28 where the word "body" is "carcase" instead (literally per the Greek also). The first one taken is taken in deception. Eagles do not... go after what's already 'dead' (carcase). So those eagles are really FAKES, trying to pass themselves off as authentic. In the going after 'carcase' sense, those are actually vultures.


    The Luke 17 event of two men in one bed, two women grinding at the mill, two men in the field, one taken and the other left, is about the deceived vs. those who remain waiting on Christ.

    Per Christ's parable in Matt.13, the 'field' represents the world. So with the two men in the field, one seeks to be taken out of the world, and the other does not.

    With the two women grinding, that's about working. To stay at the grinding wheel is symbolic of working for Christ, remaining faithful all the way to His coming, not being deceived. It's about remaining a good steward, giving the meat in due season. The one who seeks to leave goes to another, not waiting on Christ.

    This 'taken' idea was actually first covered back in Isaiah...


    Isa 8:13-17
    13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.
    14 And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
    15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
    16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples.
    17 And I will wait upon the LORD, That hideth His face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for Him.
    (KJV)

    Notice how those 'taken and snared' is given in contrast to those who 'wait upon the LORD' and look for Him.


    Isa 28:13-16
    13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
    14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
    15 Because ye have said, "We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves":
    16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
    (KJV)

    Because God's Word was to them "precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line...," His Word became a stone of stumbling and rock of offense to them, so they might go and fall backward, be broken, snared and taken (i.e., into deception). Notice how God contrasts those with the believer that stays on the true foundation through Christ, not making "haste". The idea of haste means to be in a hurry. We can't be that way if we want to understand God's Word, nor can we be that way about Christ's second coming in wanting to escape and leave.


    Per Matt.24:23-26, 2 Thess.2, and Rev.13:11 forward, Christ revealed that a specific false one is to appear in the last generation that will see Christ's second coming. That false one is to work great signs and wonders on the earth to deceive with, exalting himself over all that is worshiped or that is called God. We're told that false one will setup an "image of the beast" for all to bow in false worship, with those who refuse are to be killed. That's who those fake "eagles" which the first ones taken will flee to. Those fake eagles represent Satan's host on earth with their god, the coming false messiah. The deceived first ones taken will think that false one is Christ having returned.
     
  16. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, HammerStone.

    LOL! Yes, I can see us doing a lot of "writing up in heaven after we're raptured away":

    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy.
    I will not adamantly adhere to my interpretation of prophecy....

    Written out 100,000 times! And then,...

    I will love my brother as myself.
    I will love my brother as myself.
    I will love my brother as myself....

    Another 100,000 times or whatever it takes until it sinks in!

    Have a great Lord's Day (Yowm Richown)!

    Shalom, Love123.

    Y'know what? IF "to say Come Up Hither was for John and not the Church" "changes the Bible and the following of chronological order" when INDEED those were words to John, then I suggest that you have a problem in your understanding of the "Bible and the chronological order!" Even die-hard, independent, fundamentalist, KJV-only Baptists know that the words were written to John! Only a handful of preachers still try to use the phrase for the rapture call, although that was a common practice back in the 1950s!

    The words in Greek are "Anaba hoode" (using an "oo" for omega). And, according to Biblos.com (Interlinearbible.org), it's an aorist, imperative, active verb with the second-person, singular ending. Therefore, it is a command form meaning, "(you singular)-come-up here!" The voice was not directed to a third-person, singular entity nor was it directed to multiple people. It was directed to a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL - JOHN (Yochanan)!
     
  17. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba New Member

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    I have always understood that the separation of the sheep and goats happens in front of the judgement throne ..... not in the fields or beds on earth.

    An interesting side note is that Christians are often referred to as sheep , whereas the occult , much of Islam , as well as secular metal music identify with the goat.

    Think about it next time you see goat symbols. Anyone else notice it ? thanks.

    I think the difficulty in understanding this subject is compounded by Jesus' reply as highlighted below .....

    I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. [sup] [/sup]Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”
    “Where, Lord?” they asked.
    He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
     
  18. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    Lets look at the word of God... For in these last days men begin to scoff at the idea of the Lord's Coming (rapture, or whatever you want to call it)...


    2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

    3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    5-6. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

    7-8. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3: 2-10
     
  19. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    There's even more to it. In Jeremiah 24, God showed him a vision of two baskets of figs to represent two manner of peoples. One basket of good figs and another basket of rotten figs. In real fig horticulture, the original edible variety was called the Smyrna fig, from Smyrna, Turkey. And the bitter fig called the Caprice, but nicknamed the 'goat' fig.
     
  20. tgwprophet

    tgwprophet New Member

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    Why concern yourself with the specifics when a generalization is inferred? Certainly, we all realize that nbt 1/2 of the world's population will go anywhere all at once. Ok, does this mean if you are not in a field or a woman at a grinding mill - you will remain... Thi would of course mean maybe pehaps 100 women in America could go, but probably that is a high estimate as grinding mills are run by machines and computers and mostly by men, so half the grinding machines and computers are going to go? And most of the men in the fields in America are llegal immagrants, not the owners, so now we got machines, computers and illegal immagrants going ahem... somewhere - real quick? How about a different approach... it is a depiction of events primarily to describe in general form, an idea as to the rapture. This does not mean stop being the watchman, it does imply rapture...so there is a destination. If half the people were "taken" killed would it not say killed? Of course, in hunting terminology in this day and age "taken" means killed. Common sense should apply?
     
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