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Two Options

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by guysmith, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. guysmith

    guysmith New Member

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    For those Christians individuals (those which have placed their faith and trust in Christ and have accepted His sacrifice as the only means of salvation) which find themselves physically alive after the start of the Tribulation period, there will be two options.

    1. Venture to God's appointed place-of-safety as described in Revelation 12:6,14.
    2. Experience "the rule of the AC."

    That's all folks. You are either on the "ark" or in the water. Now you can discuss and debate all the other subjects you want, however, unless these discussions and debates are assisting you in diligently planning to be at God's appointed place-of-safety, you will be experiencing "the rule of the AC." So, if you prefer to experience "the rule of the AC" instead of being alive at Christ's advent, do worry, it will happen sooner than you think.

    Guy
     
  2. Paul

    Paul Member

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    I think we have had this conversation before guy, but I will stay where God has told me to stay, IN THE FIGHT!
     
  3. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    In the fight may not be so risky a place to be after all. Have faith in Our Lord.

    In the fall of 1937, the Imperial Japanese Army had defeated the Nationalist Chinese and was approaching the city of Nanking.
    At the time, Nanking was the capital of China.

    All of the diplomats, city leaders and most of the members of the remnants of the army began to scatter.
    A group of concerned Westerners led by Christians began to setup a 'safe zone' in the city where refugees could gather for help.

    Western diplomatic leaders began to board the USS Panay and urged the Christians to accompany them.
    The Christians stayed in Nanking and the USS Panay began its trip down the Yangtzee River to apparent safety.

    Although the United States was a neutral country at the time, the Japanese attacked and sank the USS Panay. Several people were wounded and killed.
    None of the Christians who stayed in the city suffered death, although they had a horrendous time fighting hunger, disease, fear and the atrocities of the godless Japanese Army.

    In the fight may not be so risky a place to be after all. Be of good courage. Have faith in Our Lord. If you feel you must run, run to Him.
     
  4. omnicopy

    omnicopy New Member

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    It says in Rev. 12 the woman will be given 2 great wings and will fly to her place of safety. This sounds to me like the way to the safe place will happen miraclously and automatically almost. Sounds to me like she escapes there. It says that "they" will feed "her" there. Could we be translated there? As Phillip was? Who do you think the woman is?

    Kim
     
  5. Paul

    Paul Member

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    kim, where do you think "the wilderness" is, and is she being taught all ready?
     
  6. guysmith

    guysmith New Member

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    Hello Kim,

    You stated: It says in Rev. 12 the woman will be given 2 great wings and will fly to her place of safety. This sounds to me like the way to the safe place will happen miraclously and automatically almost. Sounds to me like she escapes there. It says that "they" will feed "her" there.

    My response: I agree.

    You stated: Could we be translated there? As Phillip was?

    My response:Based on past prophecies I would say no. Noah wasn't translated to the ark and Lot wasn't translated out of S&G.

    You stated: Who do you think the woman is?

    My response: Isaiah 66: 7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

    Guy
     
  7. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Sounds like mystical mumbo-jumbo to me. Sounds to me like you're just preaching the Pre-Trib rapture theory in disguise.

    The idea of the woman in Rev.12 being protected in the wilderness goes with the other symbolic metaphors given with that, like the flood that comes out of the serpent's mouth after the woman. Pulling one verse out of Rev.12 and assigning different interpretations to it outside the chapter's context is CONFUSION.

    When the "great tribulation" starts, earthly Jerusalem will be ground zero for the beast working. That's where the most deceived of the deceived will be gathered under the false messiah/antichrist. In Luke 21:22 our Lord commanded for those in the countries not to enter in that area, especially when armies are gathered around Jerusalem.
     
  8. omnicopy

    omnicopy New Member

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    I don't know exactly how it happens, Veteran. I know the "mystery" that Paul spoke of happens after the falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. It most definitely appears that it takes place in Rev. 10:7 before the last 7 vials. I know this view is not talked about very often. The resurrection of the just takes place before the last 7 vials according to the bible. That would support that there are a group of people who are kept from that hour of trial that is coming upon the world. I'm thinking this group of people will be here the first 3 and 1/2 years in the safe place, then Rev. 10:7 happens, and then the last 7 vials are opened. It just makes sense to me that the last 7 vials last 3 and 1/2 years long.

    I personally have never wanted to go to Jerusalem. There are more false churches there that have been built over those regilious sites than you can count. There are more false church per square mile in Jersalem than any other city.

    Just that alone has caused me never to go to Jerusalem.

    Kim
     
  9. Jonathan

    Jonathan New Member

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    the woman is Israel fleeing the army of the AC (the flood coming out of the mouth of the serpent) Israel will flee to Moab (Jordan) in Isaiah 16:1-5 God is asking Moab to take in and feed Israel when she runs from the AC
     
  10. Paul

    Paul Member

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    No, JN, they are not being taught in Jordan. They are being taught right here in the good-old USA, the wilderness.
     
  11. Jonathan

    Jonathan New Member

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    and where in scripture is that stated
     
  12. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    The Isaiah 16 chapter is actually about Moab seeking to hide under Israel's coat tail, while continuing in darkness to false worship.

    Isa 16:1-7
    1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
    2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.

    Sela means 'the rock'. Moab fell to Chemosh-Ashtar worship, which required human sacrifices of warriorers (connectiion with Jihad suicide today?) Moabites are descendents of Abraham's nephew Lot. Moab wanting to send the lamb to Zion is like an attempted payment for Israel's protection. But God says it won't help, for the people of Moab that are in darkness will be as a wandering bird cast out of its nest.

    3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
    4 Let Mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
    5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and He shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hating righteousness.

    The above 3 & 4 verses is God mocking Moab. It's like, go aheady, try to hide under Judah's shadow, even tell My own outcasts you'll be their covering, for surely the extortioner (Satan) is at an end, and the spoiler has ceased and the oppressors are gone. But it will be like trying to hide in a shadow at high noon. Not much of a shadow at high noon. Verse 5 shows the reason why Moab sought Israel's protection, showing they knew the prophecy of God's reign upon Zion.

    6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.
    7 Therefore shall Moab howl for Moab, every one shall howl: for the foundations of Kirhareseth shall ye mourn; surely they are stricken.
    (KJV)

    The ultimate Message there is how God doesn't like it when any of His people forget Him and instead bow in worship to another. These are God's people too, and they at one time were very blessed by Him in ancient history, before Satan's servants crept in and turned them away to worship the false gods of Chemosh and Ashtar, and do human sacrifice to Chemosh. That false working of that time in history can still be translated to many of Lot's people today. One of the required rituals a believer on Islam is to do at least once in their lifetime, is to make a pilgrimage to Mecca, and march around the black stone while citing verses from the Koran.
     
  13. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Our Lord Jesus was very good to us, showing us definite literal events of the end to take place just prior to His coming and our gathering to Him. That's especially the purpose of the 3 woes He gave along with the last three trumpets, starting at the end of Rev.8 and flowing through to the end of Rev.11. Don't stop at Rev.10, for that chapter acts as a parenthesis, a pause, much like the Daniel 10 chapter does between the 70 weeks prophecy in Dan.9 and more details that continue to the end of Dan.12. Don't skip Rev.11, it's very... important.

    Rev.11:1-14 is about 2nd woe - 6th trumpet timing. Rev.11:15 forward is 3rd woe - 7th trumpet timing, the time of the "last trump" when Christ returns and when our gathering to Him will be. That is also the timing Apostle Paul was showing in the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter. The fake messiah comes first, then Christ comes to defeat him and gather His saints.

    See the Isaiah 16 points I covered about Moab wanting to hide under the shadow of God's people at Jerusalem at high noon. That's exactly how it will be upon the traditions of men that get away from the timing of Christ's return which He gave us written there with the 3 woe periods and last 3 trumpets. The Book of Isaiah has many parallels to the end times with the 'woe' and 'burden' chapters, hint, hint, hint (which some scholars call that section of Isaiah 'The Apocalypse of Isaiah').

    Here's another hint. Note there is a marker that happens at the end of each Revelation section of 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials.

    Rev 11:19
    19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
    (KJV)

    Those signs in bold are also given in Rev.4:5 just prior to the opening of the 7 seals; then again at Rev.8:5 at the end of 7 seals; and then in Rev.11:19 at the end of the 7 trumpets; and again at Rev.16:18 at the end of the 7 vials. In Rev.10:7, we're told when the 7th trumpet begins to sound, then the mystery of God written in the prophets shall be finished. The pointer is that the 7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial all end at the same time, the "mystery" written in the prophets for this world finished.


     
  14. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    About understanding the events in Revelation 12:6-17, the woman's flight into the wilderness must follow the Biblical context given in that chapter. Just because the Rev.12:6 & 12:14 verses use the idea of fleeing does not have to mean a physical flight.


    Rev 12:13-16
    13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
    15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
    16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
    (KJV)

    This "flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth" is a pointer back to the subject of Revelation 9 events. We're told there the smoke, fire, and brimstone the locusts bring comes out of their 'mouths', and that their power in is in their mouths. Words come out of one's mouth, and that's what the stinging of Rev.9 is about. It's about deception; lies that cause deception, false prophets turning everything upside down. The very first sign of the end our Lord Jesus gave His disciples in His Olivet discourse was to not allow any man to deceive us, making deception the main battle front at the end of this world.

    That's what the woman of Rev.12:6 forward is being protected from by going into the wilderness. It's protection against lies, not protection against physical persecutions. The two 3.5 years periods are specifically about the end of days, the prophecy in the Book of Daniel, and in Revelation 11 & 13 about the 42 months the dragon is given to work.

    Another Revelation topic linked to this is what our Lord told the Church of Philadelphia that He would keep them from the "hour of temptation" that will come upon the whole world, because of their keeping the word of His patience (Rev.3:10). Being kept from that "hour of temptation" is linked to keeping the word of His patience, meaning His Word, and not the many deceiving traditions of men (leaven). That is about not being deceived in that hour while the rest of the world will be. That's how one is kept. It even relates to the idea our Lord gave about the first one 'taken' in the field. There is a 'taken' Message in the OT prophets too, which is about being deceived because of listening to and following falseness, instead of sticking to God's Word as written (Isa.28). All these type Messages our Lord gave in His Word should not be seen as separate ideas, for they are linked together to give us the bigger picture, especially the bigger picture for events leading up to Christ's coming. Apostle Paul well knew these things from the OT prophets, and he recounted them in his Epistles about events for the end.

    The leaven traditions of men are designed to throw us off track in God's Word. For those familiar with the Bible history about the ten lost tribes, the Rev.12 idea of the 'woman' (Israel) fleeing into the wilderness where she is protected can be seen as relating to the scattering of God's people to the West among the Gentiles, both together forming the western Christian nations of history, and being blessed by God under His Son. But that's not the actual Biblical context of how the wilderness idea is being used in Rev.12.
     
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