Uh oh... I am thinking again. .... about why we dont agree on most things

[Ronald David Bruno]

No?
I meant this one.
1 Peter 2:
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

As far as that which I wrote before this?
Is why is called "free will" eh?
You are free to believe whatever floats your boat.

Still don't see the correlatiin between this, the topic or my post. You jumped from implying a span of time exists between Gen. 1:1 & 2 to this ... ??? Think your boat is floating in a different sea.

 

[MA2444]

This does not suggest that they were consecutive days... it just suggests there were so many days in total.

I think it does! It said He rested on the Seventh day, the Sabbath day. That implies a week, consecutively. Unless we presume that God didn't take a couple few sabbaths off for rest?

It was a week of 7 days, consecutive and he created for 6 days and took Saturday off. That's how it works, right? So that's why I think you do have your implication.

 

[NayborBear]

Still don't see the correlatiin between this, the topic or my post. You jumped from implying a span of time exists between Gen. 1:1 & 2 to this ... ??? Think your boat is floating in a different sea.

Don't think so young man!
As you may be able to see "a" teaching from Paul to the church in Corinth? The "division" or "cliques" that can and DO occur not only at the beginnings of the church. But occurs these days as well!


1 Corinthians 12:

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Ya see?
We're NOT running a popularity contest with "the world" like Constintine was back in his day.
Which is what has occurred to (how can I say) MODERN churchianity!

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I think it does! It said He rested on the Seventh day, the Sabbath day. That implies a week, consecutively. Unless we presume that God didn't take a couple few sabbaths off for rest?

It was a week of 7 days, consecutive and he created for 6 days and took Saturday off. That's how it works, right? So that's why I think you do have your implication.

Part 1

Well, enter the nasty subject called translations.....

Do you believe what was found in the dead sea scrolls?

Have you read Genesis 1 in the dead sea scrolls?

Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls - Genesis 1

Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls Translation page

dssenglishbible.com

Due to the likelihood of space I'll condense to just a section and encourage you to read the link. There are 7 to read but I am posing the 2nd one

Genesis 1 from Scroll 1Q1 Genesis

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q2 Genesisb

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q4 Genesisd

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q7 Genesisg

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q8 Genesish1

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q10 Genesisk

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q483 Genesis

Genesis 1 from Scroll 4Q2 Genesisb

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.

3 God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw the light, and saw that it was good. God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day”, and the darkness he called “night”. There was evening and there was morning, the first day. (NOTE: THE first day)

6 God said, “Let there be an expanse in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky”. There was evening and there was morning, a second day. (NOTE: A second NOT THE second)

9 God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land “earth”, and the gathering together of the waters he called “seas”. God saw that it was good. 11 God said, “Let the earth yield grass, herbs yielding seeds, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with their seeds in it, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 The earth yielded grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with their seeds in it, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day. (NOTE: A third NOT THE third)

14 God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs to mark seasons, days, and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light to the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.(NOTE: A fourth NOT THE fourth)

20 God said, “Let the waters abound with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.” 21 God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind. God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.(NOTE: A fifth NOT THE fifth)

24 God said, “Let the earth produce living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the animals of the earth after their kind, and the livestock after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. God saw that it was good.

26 God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them. God said to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

THERE IS absolutley nothing here that would indicate when that second, third, fourth or fifth day occirred.

We are thold there was a first day... but the next day of this period is not indicated it was after 24 earth hours.

You are , we all do, forget that God has his own timing.

What is a day in bible talk??? What is a day in God talk???

We know... with sligh doubt the word day here is a 24 hour period.

If we exam the Hebrew word for “day” and the context in which it appears in Genesis we will naturally be lead to the conclusion that “day” means a literal, 24-hour period of time.

But saying a second day could well mean next Monday, a thrid day could well mean the following Tuesday... and so on.

When Genesis was put together to tell the story... How long had it been since the author... assumed to be Moses
actually sat down to write the inspired story? Do you not believe that God might have inspired him to write in wording that would be understood by the authors contemporaries?

The Hebrew word yom translated into the English day can mean more than one thing.

It can refer to the 24-hour period of time that it takes for the earth to rotate on its axis .

OR It can refer to the period of daylight between dawn and dusk (e.g., “it gets pretty hot during the day but it cools down a bit at night”).

AND it can refer to an unspecified period of time such as when we might say to a child... "back in my day.."

In Genesis 7:11 it is used to refer to a 24-hour period .
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the [a]floodgates of the sky were opened.

In Genesis 1:16 it is used to refer to the period of daylight between dawn and dusk in
God made the two great lights, the greater light [a]to govern the day, and the lesser light [b]to govern the night; He made the stars also.

And in Genesis 2:4 it is used to refer to an unspecified period of time.

So, in Genesis 1:5 to 2:2 what does yom mean when used in conjunction with ordinal numbers (i.e., the first day, a second day, a third day, a fourth day, a fifth day, a sixth day, and the seventh day)? Are these 24-hour periods or something else? Could yom as it is used here mean an unspecified period of time?

Go to part 2...

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I think it does! It said He rested on the Seventh day, the Sabbath day. That implies a week, consecutively. Unless we presume that God didn't take a couple few sabbaths off for rest?

It was a week of 7 days, consecutive and he created for 6 days and took Saturday off. That's how it works, right? So that's why I think you do have your implication.

Part 2.....

But what about that pesky 7th day? What about it???

We learn from the Dead Sea Scrolls this is wriiten...

Genesis 2 from Scroll 4Q10 Genesisk

1 The heavens, the earth, and all their vast array were finished. 2 On the seventh day God finished his work which he had done; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. 3 God blessed the seventh day, and made it holy, because he rested in it from all his work of creation which he had done.

So creation started with "THE" first day. ... it ended on a 6th day and God rested on the 7th day.

I still sumit that there is nothing definitive that says beginning until rest day was 144 hours.

I still say that it is too odd that Gen 1 verse 3 from my translation of choice states
3 Then God said, “[d]Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Do you think maybe God did not have a plan for what he was creating? It almost seems so because here we have him... on Day one calling for light, that he divided between day and night then

(side note: God went planting.... on a 3rd day.... 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

Yet God... 72 hours after the light in the first day God.... repeats it.

14 Then God said, “Let there be [s]lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall [u]serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they [v]shall serve as lights in the [w]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light [x]to govern the day, and the lesser light [y]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [z]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [aa]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Now I best stop as I am going to be size limited.

IMO it was more then 144hours... that creation week.....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Don't think so young man!
As you may be able to see "a" teaching from Paul to the church in Corinth? The "division" or "cliques" that can and DO occur not only at the beginnings of the church. But occurs these days as well!


1 Corinthians 12:

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Ya see?
We're NOT running a popularity contest with "the world" like Constintine was back in his day.
Which is what has occurred to (how can I say) MODERN churchianity!

I absolutely agree with the scripture. There are divisions in the church. That"s the topic ... who implied there wasn't? You seem to want to disagree for no apparent reason, jumping from this to that. Your scattered. Simply state your point co corning the OP.

 

[Cassandra]

Because it was written by people who were "inspired" and writing what they thought
was inspiring them to write... if that makes sense.

Just as we see things differently.

We are, after all, people as they were

God would not have His Word with errors. And they were inspired --no need for quotation marks
2Tim. 3 16 -17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

the same Book which you question the inspiration of is the same Book that speaks of Jesus.

John 5:39 The testimony of the Scriptures. “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.”

 

[amigo de christo]

I absolutely agree with the scripture. There are divisions in the church. That"s the topic ... who implied there wasn't? You seem to want to disagree for no apparent reason, jumping from this to that. Your scattered. Simply state your point co corning the OP.

Divisions according to what . SOUND DOCTRINE .
and yet todays motto calleth those who bring in SOUND DOCTRINE to correct the error and to teach the church
as THE DIVIDERS , as those who cause divisions .
RATHER WE are simply trying to get the peoples to return back TO SOUND DOCTRINE
so as they wont sit under these dividers any longer .
Too many now speak the word love non stop
and yet the church dont bother to examine their version of love and what its OMITTING .
ITS OMITTING SOUND DOCTRINE . ITS creating nothing more than a giant social world club
that soon will include not only all denominations but even all false religoins
as they just clamor together doing certain good works , believing whatever they want
but just thinking oh GOD is love and yet far from HIS LOVE THEY have fallen
and have embraced such a love for sin and unbelief . THIS is not gonna bode well .
DOCTRINE DOES MATTER . TIS those who wont preach it but rather holler out about how it divides us
IS WHO THE HECK I AVOID . WE need to teach LIKE JESUS DID and later the APOSTELS DID .
if not leaven takes the whole lump .

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Divisions according to what . SOUND DOCTRINE .
and yet todays motto calleth those who bring in SOUND DOCTRINE to correct the error and to teach the church
as THE DIVIDERS , as those who cause divisions .
RATHER WE are simply trying to get the peoples to return back TO SOUND DOCTRINE
so as they wont sit under these dividers any longer .
Too many now speak the word love non stop
and yet the church dont bother to examine their version of love and what its OMITTING .
ITS OMITTING SOUND DOCTRINE . ITS creating nothing more than a giant social world club
that soon will include not only all denominations but even all false religoins
as they just clamor together doing certain good works , believing whatever they want
but just thinking oh GOD is love and yet far from HIS LOVE THEY have fallen
and have embraced such a love for sin and unbelief . THIS is not gonna bode well .
DOCTRINE DOES MATTER . TIS those who wont preach it but rather holler out about how it divides us
IS WHO THE HECK I AVOID . WE need to teach LIKE JESUS DID and later the APOSTELS DID .
if not leaven takes the whole lump .

I hear ya, but I wouldn't be as harsh. We are all on different levels of faith and knowledge and have different gifts. And additionally, we all have different functions within the church. Some people don't have an ounce of criticism to give, not much knowledge, but give lots of love, mercy and kindness. They might not be able to get into an in depth discussion in theology - that isn't their purpose. So to each his own. We shouldn't go around measuring everyone with the same yardstiçk we measure ourselves with. Besides, Jesus is the Author of our faith; so in essense, if we judge someone for being unequipped or wrong, we must be patient with the Lord who is authoring their faith. He will finish it - as mixed up and flawed as they may be. I am learning this - since I am impatient with many.

 

[MA2444]

Have you read Genesis 1 in the dead sea scrolls?

I have now.

What is a day in bible talk??? What is a day in God talk???

How do we ttrack our days? By the Sun. This does mean that it was 6 24 hour days to create the earth because He made refrence to....and there was evening and then morning and that was the first day etc., because one evening and one morning is 24 hours.

So creation started with "THE" first day. ... it ended on a 6th day and God rested on the 7th day.

The 7th day from when? A day two weeks ago? A day from one week ago? You see, that does not compute to me.

You've made a big effort here and I wonder why you are going so far out on a limb to try to prove a dubious point anyway?

Genesis 1:14
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:.../KJV

So when scripture is specific about the sun vs days it makes refrence to the sun, as in, and the evening and the morning were A day or the day either one. I dunno why that is hard to grasp for you?

 

[amigo de christo]

I hear ya, but I wouldn't be as harsh. We are all on different levels of faith and knowledge and have differents gifts. And additionally, we all have different functions within the church. Some people don't have an ounce of criticism to give, not much knowledge, but give lots of love, mercy and kindness. They might not be able to get into an in depth discussion in theology - that isn't their purpose. So to each his own. We shouldn't go around measuring everyone with the same yardstiçk me measure ourselves with. Besides, Jesus is the Author of our faith; so in essense, if we judge someone for being unequipped or wrong, we must be patient with the Lord who is authoring their faith. He will finish it - as mixed up and flawed as they may be. I am learning this - since I am impatient with many.

but again the problem lies within what most think is mercy , love and kindness .
You see had they actually sat under teachers like the apostels
they would have recongnized true mercy , true love , etc .
The problem is many thinks quick correction , being fast to expose sin
a sense of gravity when sin is seen as being non loving , unmerciful and unkind .
WHEN in truth its seasoned maturity that is simply in the eye of the seasoned
that knows the deadly dangers of sin and when it sees it , its very fast to correct
any kind of error , for it knows what leaven can do and does .
Really this mindset can fast be learned and seen if we would but read again
the scrips for ourselves and to stay refreshed in them daily .
You see the problem is that many learned the scrips through the lens of men who
never attained to maturity to begin with . rather they learned them through men
who had taught the precepts through the lens of men . NOW that IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM .
and can and will become a serious problem til we get off our rumps and decide to learn
for ourselves that which can quickly and easily had been learned for ourselves .
YOU see when a man or any cometh along
and has to allure us into a concept , which at first read the scrips would have shut down .
WE GONNA have began a journey down the wrong road .
You would be amazed at how simple the walk was and truly could have been .
and YES a lot of false teachers and preachers can quaote the same words i just did
and yet WHAT THEY WONT DO is point ya back to daily READING FOR YOURSELF .
at most they will say , HEY you just dont understand it well enough
come and sit under our leadership , come and let us explain , IT AWAY , or wait they aint that obvious
rather they say COME and let us expound it unto you . BUT REALLY they are just
explaining AWAY from the simple truth and justifiyin their own belief unto you . I know that seems harsh to say
BUT MAN TRUE IT IS .

 

[amigo de christo]

I hear ya, but I wouldn't be as harsh. We are all on different levels of faith and knowledge and have differents gifts. And additionally, we all have different functions within the church. Some people don't have an ounce of criticism to give, not much knowledge, but give lots of love, mercy and kindness. They might not be able to get into an in depth discussion in theology - that isn't their purpose. So to each his own. We shouldn't go around measuring everyone with the same yardstiçk me measure ourselves with. Besides, Jesus is the Author of our faith; so in essense, if we judge someone for being unequipped or wrong, we must be patient with the Lord who is authoring their faith. He will finish it - as mixed up and flawed as they may be. I am learning this - since I am impatient with many.

What do you THINK paul would have said to those in sin like say for example
homosexuality . What do you think HE would have said
to those who came unto the church , were in that SIN
even said they BELIEVED IN GOD , IN JESUS and yet were not repenting of said sin .
He would have told the church STOP GLORYING , PUT THEM OUT
just like HE told the church about the man who had his fathers wife .
YOU SEE Too many are getting lulled into a mindset that says JUDGE NOT
SHUT THINE MOUTH , JUST HUG , sing some songs , SAY NOTHING .
BAD MINDSET DUDE . the leaven DO TAKE OVER .
how so . GO examine the churches who have sat under the seeker friendly the longest .
WHO said nothing to those in sin
YOU WILL FIND that has time went on they no longer even see it as sin
HECK most of them now even HOLD THE RAINBOW HIGH .
DONT ya know that a little leaven will in time leaven up the lump .
NOW Do notiice i never once said to hold a sign that said HOMOS NOT WELCOME HERE
if ya ever did these sins DONT COME IN . NEVER SAID THAT .
what i SAID WAS , try preaching SOME SOUND DOCTRINE that exposes SIN WITHIN that church
and if you notice week by week the same married gay couple
sitting in your church , THEN I JUST BET that sin aint being exposed at all . OR WHY WOULD
THEY BE STILL MARRIED and STILL SITTING IN YA CHURCH . BINGO . we got problems .
THE BIBLE AINT BEING READ IN CHURCHES , or at least not parts that expose sin are .
OOPSY . HOW can one who sits in SIN daily , claims to believe IN JESUS THE CHRIST
be sitting in the same SIN over and over again , week by week . WHERE IS THE CONVICTION OF THE SPIRIT .
I mean had they TRULY BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST would they not have had the SPIRIT
and IF ONE HAS THE SPIRIT would it not be convicting them IF THEY ARE IN ERROR .
Exactly . BUT DUMBOS BIG EARED JOKE of seeker freindly has RIPPED and ROBBED THE CHURCHES
of DISCERNEMENT .
THE REASON UNREPENTANT SINNERS REMAIN IN A PLACE . wanna know why that is
CAUSE THEIR SIN AINT BEING EXPOSED , rather they are being accepted
they even feel comfortable and yet THEY ARE IN SIN . WHERE IS THE SPIRIT . exactly . GONE . GONE
it aint there . they simply came to a god that wont correct their error and rather allows them to feel okay
in said error . GOT BAD NEWS , ONLY THE DEVIL WOULD DO THAT .

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I have now.



How do we ttrack our days? By the Sun. This does mean that it was 6 24 hour days to create the earth because He made refrence to....and there was evening and then morning and that was the first day etc., because one evening and one morning is 24 hours.



The 7th day from when? A day two weeks ago? A day from one week ago? You see, that does not compute to me.

You've made a big effort here and I wonder why you are going so far out on a limb to try to prove a dubious point anyway?

Genesis 1:14
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:.../KJV

So when scripture is specific about the sun vs days it makes refrence to the sun, as in, and the evening and the morning were A day or the day either one. I dunno why that is hard to grasp for you?

I believe that the time it took from in the beginning to the Sabbath commanded by God
was longer than 144 hours.

What if there was a time space between every day of a certain length then when the end came on that 6th day there could have easily been a 7th 24 hours later.

Does there have to be equal spacing such as 6 - 24 hour periods.

Why not 1 or 2- 24 hour periods then just for conversation say day three came about months or even years later.

Gen 2:4 has always bothered me.... KJV

King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Generations in 144 hours? Generations in the day?

How about

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Why. Why would a mist be needed if all would be completed in 144 hours.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

All in 144 hours these trees grew?

I could go on but wont.

Why is it important to me. Simply because I have grown to believe that creation up until Adam was back earlier. NO, I am not a big band proponent and I do not believe the earth to be 6.5 billion years old... or whatever they say today.

Yes, I know God could have crossed his arms and nodded and it was.

But that is not how we are told in Gen 1.... and the 2nd attempt in Gen 2.

 

[MA2444]

Why not 1 or 2- 24 hour periods then just for conversation say day three came about months or even years later.

In the movie, Oh God, God said that He really thought about it for 5 days and then did the whole shebang in 1 day, lol.

Gen 2:4 has always bothered me.... KJV

King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Generations in 144 hours? Generations in the day?

Instead of defining in your mind generations to mean ages and ages, try it with the definition of...course of history...IOW, it's saying now we will go on and tell you more of the history of the earth about man. man's history. . But don't forget about Genesis 2:1 which starts out saying, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Creation was done by now. But man's history on the earth was just starting!

Does that clear it up for you?

How about

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Why. Why would a mist be needed if all would be completed in 144 hours.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

All in 144 hours these trees grew?

Yes they did. You probably already know that God created Time also, right? What makes you think that God couldn't cause trees to grow super fast? This was ot a fallen or cursed earth yet! God didn't even create the trees directly. He put all of the necessary ingrediants (Lol) into the earth and then told the earth to bring forth vegetation! Why was a mist needed you ask? Because this was an unfallen world and it wasnt designed to rain. There was a Firmament seperating the waters of the earth from the waters above. So it was like a huge water vapor cloud was around the earth and it blocked out many harmful rays from the Sun and let the earth act like an Terrierium (sp?) Where there was dew in the morning which watered the plants so they could grow without rain. Some scientists believe that the sky was very probably orange colored before the big flood of Noah's time. SO after the flood, Noah saw that the sky was blue now. Because the water vapor cloud above the earth emptied out upon the earth during the flood. It rained then upon the earth, for the first time!

I think it would be a small thing for God to make a tree grow from seed to fruiting within minutes or even seconds. Is there anything too hard for God?!

Hey...I just had a thought. The ingrediants needed for the earth to bring forth trees and vegetation are in the earth...then the apple tree isnt in the seed! The seed merely tells it where to grow the tree! Wow! I never realized that before.

 

[MA2444]

If Jesus plants a new fruit tree in Heaven, do you think He has to wait 5 or 8 years for fruit? Lol.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We read the same words..... How can there be so many misunderstandings???????????????

Byrd who is a member on here but doesn’t come on anymore (not that I’ve noticed)… he used to say this which I remember as helpful to consider: “We don’t read the Word. The Word reads us.”

For me, I have to take this into consideration also… if the Word does indeed manifest what is hidden within our hearts through a multitude of varying doctrines that come out into plain sight..then all sees this manifestation of what is in the heart.

Jesus Christ revealed hearts as he walked among men, never revealing the same in every person but made manifest what was in the heart.

It’s scary to think our plentiful doctrines which never agree (unless we find a group that believes the same): are a manifestations outwardly of the things inwardly.

For example …if I want to prove men having more the one marriage, in support of “plural marriages” . It will manifest in my teaching on verses used to support what I want to have. Scary to consider. if there is any truth to “we don’t read the Word. the Word reads us.” … I have to at least consider what the Word of God reads in me. And what does the doctrine I hold to (in the sea of many differing views) say about what is within? It would be interesting to take a look at the most famous doctrines(all differing in ways) and consider what’s manifest. And what draws us to certain ones?

 

[NayborBear]

I absolutely agree with the scripture. There are divisions in the church. That"s the topic ... who implied there wasn't? You seem to want to disagree for no apparent reason, jumping from this to that. Your scattered. Simply state your point co corning the OP.

I'm SO glad you agree with that!
The next question would be?
That in so agreeing?
Do you?/CAN you "see" the WHY this taking place?
And if perchance you do? Then what are you doing to CORRECT this situation?
Is it because of being (falsely labelled) a false prophet? Or (worser), A "SELF PROCLAIMED" prophet! (because YOU have not obtained a "sheepskin" from one of the institutions of higher (supposedly) Spiritual learning? Or otherwise facing persecution from within that church?
Or? (and THIS is what usually happens when one "sees" things awry from within any particular denomination you may attend) "Well then!?" "You (MUST) have ALL the answers!" "RIGHT?!!" (sounding a whole LOT like the finger of one ACCUSING the brethren!) OUCH!! Eh?

The MOST of what we CAN do is POINT the way leading TO the water!
And? because of how LONG "tribal elders" have "traditionalized" the WORD OF GOD? And how large a VOID they have CREATED? (thinking themselves wise in their own eyes!) WITH the WORD OF GOD?

Well then? You SHOULD be able to "see" the TRUTH Jesus spoke when He stated: "MANY....are "called?"" (And how many preacher/teacher/pastors etc. have or are "following" a "calling?" Just how FEW are fact-actually "CHOSEN".

Ya see Ronald, MOST believers REALLY BELIEVE that "their" eternity BEGINS at the moment of their conversion! Don't take me the wrong way here. Because in a way, it does!

What they DON'T realize, because they never were taught?
Is that there is a WHOLE LOT OF ETERNITY PRIOR TO THEIR (personal) CONVERSION! And?
A whole lot of GOVERNMENT that the Messiah Jesus of Nazareth BARES on His shoulders!
And? It REQUIRES a whole BUNCH of "spiritual sacrifices" acceptable TO GOD by Jesus Christ of Nazareth in just the simple "gaining/seeing" of the "eternity past!"
Not to mention the leaning not ON ONES' OWN UNDERSTANDING in the grasping and embracing of it!

Why? Because of the FOLLY of it all!

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I'm SO glad you agree with that!
The next question would be?
That in so agreeing?
Do you?/CAN you "see" the WHY this taking place?
And if perchance you do? Then what are you doing to CORRECT this situation?
Is it because of being (falsely labelled) a false prophet? Or (worser), A "SELF PROCLAIMED" prophet! (because YOU have not obtained a "sheepskin" from one of the institutions of higher (supposedly) Spiritual learning? Or otherwise facing persecution from within that church?
Or? (and THIS is what usually happens when one "sees" things awry from within any particular denomination you may attend) "Well then!?" "You (MUST) have ALL the answers!" "RIGHT?!!" (sounding a whole LOT like the finger of one ACCUSING the brethren!) OUCH!! Eh?

The MOST of what we CAN do is POINT the way leading TO the water!
And? because of how LONG "tribal elders" have "traditionalized" the WORD OF GOD? And how large a VOID they have CREATED? (thinking themselves wise in their own eyes!) WITH the WORD OF GOD?

Well then? You SHOULD be able to "see" the TRUTH Jesus spoke when He stated: "MANY....are "called?"" (And how many preacher/teacher/pastors etc. have or are "following" a "calling?" Just how FEW are fact-actually "CHOSEN".

Ya see Ronald, MOST believers REALLY BELIEVE that "their" eternity BEGINS at the moment of their conversion! Don't take me the wrong way here. Because in a way, it does!

What they DON'T realize, because they never were taught?
Is that there is a WHOLE LOT OF ETERNITY PRIOR TO THEIR (personal) CONVERSION! And?
A whole lot of GOVERNMENT that the Messiah Jesus of Nazareth BARES on His shoulders!
And? It REQUIRES a whole BUNCH of "spiritual sacrifices" acceptable TO GOD by Jesus Christ of Nazareth in just the simple "gaining/seeing" of the "eternity past!"
Not to mention the leaning not ON ONES' OWN UNDERSTANDING in the grasping and embracing of it!

Why? Because of the FOLLY of it all!

As the OP of the OP I must say I find your thoughts to be difficult, at best to understand... and when an entirety of a reply is made up of small case words mixed with a lot of capitalized words

But this is a problem because it does not answer the why in the OP question.

It matters not how long... or by whom... but by own understanding.

Your preterist knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus came back AD 70ish. HOW? Because they read it in the bible and it fits the puzzle.

Your Calvenist/predetermined soul also knows beyond a shadow of a doubt because they also read it.

Your "works" people know it primarily because of James but reading it also in the bible.

Your eternal hell fire folks also believe because of what they read.

Your immersed, come of age, baptism necessary for salvation people know what the bible tells them.

As do your faith people who see that throughout the bible.

Your YEC people know with no doubt that the earth came into being in 144 hours.

Your flood people know it was world wide as it is written

Your flood people who do not believe it was world wide somehow see that to be a fact

Your Tower of Babel people believe or not based on their perceptions of what is written

Almost everyone believes that the crucifixion was on a Friday because Jesus saying 3 days and 3 nights
was just an example... from the bible.

I could go on but your get the idea.....

And all of these believing people will tell you, you are wrong, I am wrong, even Ronald David Bruno is wrong.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

And if perchance you do? Then what are you doing to CORRECT this situation?
Is it because of being (falsely labelled) a false prophet? Or (worser), A "SELF PROCLAIMED" prophet! (because YOU have not obtained a "sheepskin" from one of the institutions of higher (supposedly) Spiritual learning? Or otherwise facing persecution from within that church?

Why don't you stick to the topic?
Now you are getting personal. Who was labeled a prophet or claimed he was one? Not me. ???
I'll tell you though, I've been admiring those sheepskins in Costco ... maybe I'll get one - then my life will be complete!

It REQUIRES a whole BUNCH of "spiritual sacrifices" acceptable TO GOD by Jesus Christ of Nazareth in just the simple "gaining/seeing" of the "eternity past!

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Romans 12:1-2
--
*** Now I'll go off topic for your sake.
All this emphasis on performance (works based) salvation is legalism.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Eph. 2:8-10

That said, our walk is to be obedient and presenting our bodies as living sacrifices - in cooperation with Him. It is just a mindset, an acknowledgment that His plan for us is to be holy. We can't make ourselves holy - only God can The good works are done by the Holy Spirit through us. The only way His sovereign plan will work perfectly is if He is in control. We cannot mess things up. All our sins and blunders are factored into His plan that is btw going along perfectly on schedule.
"His yoke is easy and His burden light".
______
A comment about 1 Cor. 12:21 & 23. I was taught this from the beginning of my walk, that we are all different yet functional and purposeful in the body. It is likened to billions of cells in an organism that function symbiotically. I often touch on this concept:

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

Either we (including you) agape one another or we don't. Sounds like a zero-sum equation. Is there an agape go/no-go gage in the Bible I can use to measure myself? That would be great!

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