Understanding Christ's Natures

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truth333

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Understanding Christ's Natures

Here is the catholic teaching about the Incarnation and Jesus two natures, please read all, not just the bold and italics.

Second Council of Constantinople, Can. 9: “… [those who] mix together the divinity and the humanity, shall speak monstrously of one only nature or essence of the united (natures), and so worship Christ, and does not venerate, by one adoration, God the Word made man, together with his flesh, as the Holy Church has taught from the beginning: let him be anathema.”


Council of Ephesus: “Confessing the Word to be made one with the flesh according to substance, we adore one Son and Lord Jesus Christ: we do not divide the God from the man, nor separate him into parts.”

The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV [Athanasian Creed]

The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches one true God omnipotent, unchangeable, and eternal, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; one in essence, three in persons; Father unborn, Son born of the Father, Holy Spirit proceeding from Father and Son; that the Father is not Son or Holy Spirit, that Son is not Father or Holy Spirit; that Holy Spirit is not Father or Son; but Father alone is Father, Son alone is Son, Holy Spirit alone is Holy Spirit. The Father alone begot the Son of His own substance; the Son alone was begotten of the Father alone; the Holy Spirit alone proceeds at the same time from the Father and Son. These three persons are one God, and not three gods, because the three have one substance, one essence, one nature, one divinity, one immensity, one eternity, where no opposition of relationship interferes.

“Because of this unity the Father is entire in the Son, entire in the Holy Spirit; the Son is entire in the Father, entire in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is entire in the Father, entire in the Son. No one either excels another in eternity, or exceeds in magnitude, or is superior in power. For the fact that the Son is of the Father is eternal and without beginning; and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son is eternal and without beginning.” Whatever the Father is or has, He does not have from another, but from Himself; and He is the principle without principle. Whatever the Son is or has, He has from the Father, and is the principle from a principle. Whatever the Holy Spirit is or has, He has simultaneously from the Father and the Son. But the Father and the Son are not two principles of the Holy Spirit, but one principle, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of the creature, but one principle.

Whoever, therefore, have adverse and contrary opinions the Church disapproves and anathematizes and declares to be foreign to the Christian body which is the Church. Hence it condemns Sabellius who confuses the persons and completely takes away their real distinction. It condemns the Arians, the Eunomians; the Macedonians who say that only the Father is the true God, but put the Son and the Holy Spirit in the order of creatures. It condemns also any others whatsoever who place grades or inequality in the Trinity.

Most strongly it believes, professes, and declares that the one true God, Father and Son and Holy Spirit, is the creator of all things visible and invisible, who, when He wished, out of His goodness created all creatures, spiritual as well as corporal; good indeed, since they were made by the highest good, but changeable, since they were made from nothing, and it asserts that nature is not evil, since all nature, in so far as it is nature, is good. It professes one and the same God as the author of the Old and New Testament, that is, of the Law and the Prophets and the Gospel, since the saints of both Testaments have spoken with the inspiration in the same Holy Spirit, whose books, which are contained under the following titles it accepts and venerates.

Besides it anathematizes the madness of the Manichaeans, who have established two first principles, one of the visible, and another of the invisible; and they have said that there is one God of the New Testament, another God of the Old Testament.

It believes, professes, and proclaims that one person of the Trinity. true God, Son of God born from the Father, consubstantial and coeternal with the Father, in the plenitude of time which the inscrutable depth of divine counsel has disposed for the salvation of the human race, assumed true and complete human nature from the immaculate womb of the Virgin Mary, and joined with itself in the unity of person, with such unity that whatever is of God there, is not separated from man, and whatever is of man, is not divided from the Godhead; He is one and the same undivided both natures, God and man, remaining in their own peculiar properties, God and man, Son of God and Son of man, equal to the Father according to divinity, less than the Father according to humanity, immortal and eternal from the nature of divinity, passible and temporal from the condition of assumed humanity.

It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that the Son of God in the assumed humanity was truly born of the Virgin, truly suffered, truly died and was buried, truly rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father, and will come at the end of time to judge the living and the dead.

It, moreover, anathematizes, execrates, and condemns every heresy that suggests contrary things. And first it condemns Ebion, Cerinthus, Marcion, Paul of Samosata, Photinus, and all similar blasphemers, who, being unable to accept the personal union of humanity with the Word, denied that our Lord Jesus Christ was true God, proclaiming Him pure man who was called divine man by reason of a greater participation in divine grace, which He had received by merit of a more holy life. It anathematizes also Manichaeus with his followers, who, thinking vainly that the Son of God had assumed not a true but an ephemeral body, entirely do away with the truth of the humanity in Christ. And also Valentinus who asserts that the Son of God took nothing from the Virgin Mary, but assumed a heavenly body and passed through the womb of the Virgin just as water flows and runs through an aqueduct. Arius also, who asserted that the body assumed from the Virgin lacked a soul, and would have the Godhead in place of the soul. Also Apollinaris, who, understanding that there was no true humanity if in Christ the soul is denied as giving the body form, posited only a sensitive soul, but held that the Godhead of the Word took the place of a rational soul. It also anathematizes Theodore of Mopsuestia and Nestorius who assert that humanity was united with the Son of God through grace, and hence there are two persons in Christ, just as they confess that there are two natures, since they were unable to understand that the union of humanity with the Word was hypostatic, and so refused to accept the subsistence of God. For according to this blasphemy, the Word was not made flesh, but the Word through grace lived in the flesh; that is, He was made not the Son of God, but rather the Son of God lived in man. It anathematizes also, execrates, and condemns Eutyches the archimandrite; since he believed according to the blasphemy of Nestorius that the truth of the Incarnation is excluded, and therefore it is fitting that humanity was so united to the Word of God that the person of the Godhead and of humanity were one and the same and also, he could not grasp the unity of person as long as a plurality of natures existed, just as he established that there was one person of the Godhead and humanity in Christ, so he asserted that there was one nature, meaning that before the union there was a duality of natures, but in the assumption they passed over into one nature, with the greatest blasphemy and impiety granting either that humanity was turned into Godhead, or Godhead into humanity. It also anathematizes, execrates, and condemns Macarius of Antioch and all who hold similar views; although he had a correct understanding of the duality of natures and the unity of person, yet he erred greatly concerning the operations of Christ when he said that in Christ there was one operation and one will on the part of both natures. All these, together with their heresies, the Holy Roman Church anathematizes, affirming that there are two wills and two operations in Christ.
 

bbyrd009

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thus elevating the Hegelian Dialectic to dogma and doctrine, as we can observe in any religious position today, right.
We are each "two men in a bed," ergo Christ must also be schizophrenic too
 

truth333

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thus elevating the Hegelian Dialectic to dogma and doctrine, as we can observe in any religious position today, right.
We are each "two men in a bed," ergo Christ must also be schizophrenic too

You are a groping cartoon character and quite the bird!! You are groping in the dark.

Ecclesiasticus 27:10 Birds resort unto their like: …

2 Peter 1:9 For he that hath not these things with him, is blind, and groping, having forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Job 12:25 They shall grope as in the dark, and not in the light, and he shall make them stagger like men that are drunk.
 
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bbyrd009

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i am this and i am that, you are mos def in posse with the facts my brother :)
i would not even try to deny them

however, that does not address the fruit of the post imo, do you not see reflections of the Hegelian Dialectic in religion?
Isn't inferring that my religion is wrong and yours is right an expression of this?
 

101G

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no need for any Council, first second, or third. just read your bible with the Holy Spirit. his nature, Philippians 2:6, and continue on through verse 8. but the nature answer is in verses 6 & 7 in the word "form". and if one need to know his nature after his resurrection, just read 1 Corinthians chapter 15, and start reading at verse 35.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.
 
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truth333

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i am this and i am that, you are mos def in posse with the facts my brother :)
i would not even try to deny them

however, that does not address the fruit of the post imo, do you not see reflections of the Hegelian Dialectic in religion?
Isn't inferring that my religion is wrong and yours is right an expression of this?

I am definitely not your brother!
 

Helen

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I am definitely not your brother!

Whoops, like it or not...you ARE!!
( If indeed you are born again of the Spirit and Blood-washed)
The choice of "church " has nothing to do with it...God does not see many different churches. ( talking again here about the true blood washed believers)
 

truth333

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@truth333. I'll hand it to you...great idea for a thread!

MH, its all about unity. You misunderstood my comment. Men in false religions, are not brothers, with those of the one true religion, the catholic church.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one."

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother."
 

bbyrd009

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I am definitely not your brother!
however, that does not address the fruit of the post imo, do you not see reflections of the Hegelian Dialectic in religion?
Isn't inferring that my religion is right and yours is wrong an expression of this?
 
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bbyrd009

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I am definitely not your brother!
what did i do, anyway?
thus elevating the Hegelian Dialectic to dogma and doctrine, as we can observe in any religious position today, right.
We are each "two men in a bed," ergo Christ must also be schizophrenic too
is just an impersonal observation, after all
 

amadeus

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Whoops, like it or not...you ARE!!
( If indeed you are born again of the Spirit and Blood-washed)
The choice of "church " has nothing to do with it...God does not see many different churches. ( talking again here about the true blood washed believers)
I read enough of his lengthy posts to gather that his group is supposed to believe just what he said. All Protestants, non-Catholics and Catholics not of his persuasion even though confessing themselves to be followers of Jesus are really heretics. No heretics are his brothers. This means you and me as well as the rest of us here and especially including our friends @kepha31 and @BreadOfLife

Where he is, is much closer to where I was as a young Catholic than is the supposed loyal Catholic Church [those who call the present Pope, the Pope rather than an anti-Pope] of today [headquartered in the Vatican].
 
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Helen

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I read enough of his lengthy posts to gather that his group is supposed to believe just what he said. All Protestants, non-Catholics and Catholics not of his persuasion even though confessing themselves to be followers of Jesus are really heretics. No heretics are his brothers. This means you and me as well as the rest of us here and especially including our friends @kepha31 and @BreadOfLife

Where he is, is much closer to where I was as a young Catholic than is the supposed loyal Catholic Church [those who call the present Pope, the Pope rather an anti-Pope] of today [headquartered in the Vatican].

Agree, how sad is that! :oops:
So we can guess that the only reason he is here then is with a message of condemnation. Why come here to this Site unless it is to tell us how lost we all are. ( and how self-righteous is that! )

BUT, that said...WE are happy enough in our confidence of the great love of God and in the HOPE of salvation. There is always hope just as there is always light...even in darkness....I love that scripture ..which has been part of a Psalm/Praise that I so often quote first think in the morning when I wake up it seems to be part of me :) :-
Psalm 18 "I will love thee, O Lord, my strength. The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
...... He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind. He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies."


There is always light in darkness! Praise the Lord!!
 

truth333

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Agree, how sad is that! :oops:
So we can guess that the only reason he is here then is with a message of condemnation. Why come here to this Site unless it is to tell us how lost we all are. ( and how self-righteous is that! )

It amazes me how people love to sit in darkness. Pridefully, you willfully equate true charity with self righteousness!

If a man on the side of some train tracks, was shouting at a man, "Get off the tracks" who was on the train tracks and a train was coming, that he could not see, is it self righteousness or is it true charity, for trying to give the man the desperate and critical information, which would save the man's life?

'ByGrace' by your own mouth, you convict yourself. You are very prideful.

Matthew 23:31 Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets.

Matthew 7:16-20 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
 

amadeus

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It amazes me how people love to sit in darkness. Pridefully, you willfully equate true charity with self righteousness!....

True charity!

"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." I Cor 13:4-7
 

Richard_oti

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It amazes me how people love to sit in darkness. Pridefully, you willfully equate true charity with self righteousness!<snip>

'ByGrace' by your own mouth, you convict yourself. You are very prideful.

I remember hearing a teaching regarding "projection". Be careful, for something about as you have judged comes to mind...
 
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truth333

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I remember hearing a teaching regarding "projection". Be careful, for something about as you have judged comes to mind...

You don't even understand what Jesus says about judging!?

I would think by now that 'ByGrace' would be tired of jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon hitting the like button, Lol! To funny!