1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Understanding Debt Paper

Discussion in 'Christian Finance Forum' started by veteran, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207
    Understand The Concept of Money

    We know the concept of 'money' is an ancient tool used among peoples in search of a common value system. Money can be anything a people agree to use as a method of exchange. It just has to be durable, not easily counterfeited, and easy to handle and transfer. Thus it didn't take long for people to understand how metals could serve that role. In Old Testament times we see how precious metals like gold and silver were used a method of exchange. Precious metals like gold and silver have intrinsic value, which means regardless of being used as money silver and gold has value by itself independent of it being used as money.

    Then later 'paper' was agreed upon to represent larger denominations, and for today, it's very important to understand how 'paper' came into existence as money.


    How Banking Got Started

    In early societies people needed a place of safekeeping for the gold and silver. From ancient times the smiths were practiced in craftsmanship working in various metals (see Genesis 4). In later times, the goldsmiths had those places for safekeeping their gold, so the people would bring their own gold to the goldsmiths and ask the goldsmith to store it for them as a Deposit. Then the goldsmith would hand them a paper Receipt note so as to retreive their gold when needed.

    What the goldsmiths then noticed was that the amount of other people's gold held in their safe always was around 90%. The people would only withdraw about 10% of their gold out for daily transactions, the majority of it just sat there idle in the safe. That 90% of other people's gold in the safe was called Reserves. It just sat there, not being used.

    Eventually, the goldsmiths figured that if they always left at least... 10% of other people's gold kept in their safe, then they could put that 90% which just sat their idle as Reserves, to use. They began to Loan out that 90% of other people's gold with charging Interest. That's how modern Banking got started, which still today uses those same basic principles of keeping a certain percentage of Reserves (other people's money) in safekeeping to do business. The Federal Reserve Banking System sets that Reserves percentage that today's U.S. banks must follow. One of the most famous places for those U.S. gold Reserves was at Fort Knox, Kentucky.

    The U.S. Mint was created to shape gold and silver into coins, and by law had to receive gold and silver mined by the people, and turn it into coin money for them. Congress was empowered to regulate that coining per the U.S. Constitution. The gold rushes expanded the nation's Money Supply (amount of money in circulation) and was a positive influence upon the nation's growth. It did not change the Value (buying power) of the nation's Money Supply, it only increased the amount of available coins in the money supply.


    Paper Money

    With using gold and silver coins as the main source of exchange, difficulties with storage and transfer of large amounts became a major problem. Shipments of gold coins were bulky, heavy, and went down with sailing ships in bad storms and lost to raids by pirates. So the nations looked for an easier method of exchange. Paper receipts were given as Deposit Slips to the people when they deposited their gold with the goldsmiths and later with Banks, so the idea of using paper to represent real money was already there, it just had to not be easily counterfeited. With a numbering system on paper bills, if a paper shipment got stolen or lost in transfer it could easily be accounted for. Using paper to represent the silver and gold Reserves still meant maintaining to a Gold Standard currency system, since the paper money in circulation still had to equal the amount of gold held in Reserves.

    So now the banking systems of nations had an easier method of exchange for the people and between nations, using the Paper Dollar. Once again, the Gold Standard system meant the amount of paper dollars in circulation had to equal the amount of gold held in Reserves. Any break down of Bill Denominations could be used, but it still had to equal the amount of gold the nation held. That meant the paper dollars were Redeemable Paper Notes for their amount equal in gold or silver. For a One Dollar bill, you could go to a Reserve bank and exchange it for an equal amount in coin, like one Silver Dollar. This meant absolutely no Inflation or Deflation of the value of the Paper Dollar. In the U.S., these type of paper dollars were called Silver Certificates.


    Fractional Reserves, Fiat Dollar, and Inflation

    Around the turn of the 20th century, and with the establishing of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, the U.S. paper money supply began to move towards Fractional Reserves Banking. Ever so slowly, the Central Bankers began removing our U.S. paper currency away... from the Gold Standard.

    The idea of Fractional Reserves meant only a 'portion' of the Dollar had to stay on the Gold Standard. The U.S. Dollar had to have only a portion of gold held in Reserves to back it. A 90% fractional Reserve meant each One Dollar amount had to be backed by 90% in gold Reserves. That also meant that 10% of each One Dollar did not have to be backed by ANY gold or silver, which meant Money Creation by Fiat.

    Fiat means 'by decree'. It's a word that can ultimately be applied to how our Heavenly Father created the universe and everything in it, by His merely speaking The Word. He spoke, and it came into existence.

    With paper money created out of thin air by Fiat, it means no gold or silver backing it. It simply comes into existence out of thin air by decree of Congressional approval. Money created by Fiat means currency ADDED to the existing money supply in circulation, which is Inflation of the Value of the dollar. This is how we can go to bed at night with the dollars in our pocket being worth a certain amount, and then overnight if Congress approves a trillion dollar Bailout of a third-world nation, we wake up in the morning and those same dollars in our pockets immediately are worth less, and won't buy as much. (I've seen many congressional Bailouts in my time, the largest corporate Bailouts with the global market events that started in the 1970's through 2009). How could this happen?

    In the early 1970's, the Federal Reserve System completely... removed our U.S. Dollar away from the Gold Standard. The U.S. Dollar then became a... Federal Reserve Note, no longer exchangeable for equal amounts of gold or silver at a Reserve Bank.


    Paper Debt

    Under this system, our U.S. Dollar became a literal Debt Paper. It begins with a U.S. Treasury Note, which is a Promissary Note. A Promisary Note is simply a Debt Note, a promise to pay. It's the same idea when you write a Personal Check. Your Check is a promise to pay to whomever you write the Check to, like "Pay to the Order of:___________". Writing that Personal Check is depending on you having Funds in a Bank to back that Check, otherwise that check will Bounce, and you will be under a Penalty, usually having to pay a fine, and could turn into jail time if done many times and on purpose.

    A Personal Check is a Debt paper note. So is the U.S. Treasury Note where today's Dollar begins its birth by Fiat with Congress placing an order to the Treasury to print it. Since the U.S. Dollar is no longer attached to a Gold Standard to back it, how do you think those U.S. Treasury Notes are backed? You guessed it, we the Taxpayer back it, as Congress promises to get the monies for it out of our own pockets through... Taxation. This is part of the shabby little secret of why Congress also passed the Progressive Income Tax system in 1933, and the founding of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to make sure... those Treasury Notes are backed by the American peoples through Taxation. So our U.S. Dollar is completely Debt-based now. It even begins... as a Debt Paper when those U.S. Treasury Notes are first printed.


    Inflation and Deflation

    You'll hear all sorts of wild explanations within the Media of what Inflation, Deflation, and Deficit Spending is. Most often their definitions are completely wrong, and designed to keep you off-track of what's been the real problems with our economic system since its removal from a Gold Standard and move to Paper Fiat Currency and Debt Spending.

    Inflation and Deflation is about the Value of the U.S. Dollar. When more U.S. Dollars are Fiated by decree, created out of nothing, and added to the Dollars already in Circulation, it makes the Value of the Dollar go downwards. Remove Dollars in circulation and it Deflates the Value of the Dollar (strengthens its buying power). Yet Deflation is used to slow down economic growth at the same time. You will often hear that Inflation is good, and that Delfation is bad, simply because they base it on standards of economic growth. What 'we the people' really need, is a stable value Dollar that allows... economic growth at the same time. We had... that with following a Gold Standard.

    Instead, the Economy is designed to progressively Inflate the U.S. Dollar, on average of 3-4% per year. What that means is, a Dollar worth 100 cents at 4% Inflation a year is worth only 60 cents at the end of 10 years. (10 years X 4% = 40% inflation for the total period). Cost of Living Raises at our jobs is how that Inflation of the Dollar was to be equalized. How many of you get a 4% income raise each year? Yeah, I thought so. Most of you do not. And in the past decade, the Corporate Trend on income raises has been to ask employees to discard those raises to help the Company stay economically strong, so no Employee Layoffs will happen to balance their lack of Revenues.


    Deficit Spending

    What the Fiat Paper Debt system of today's U.S. Dollar promotes is Deficit Spending. It means the Dollar is continually being weakened by continual creation out of thin air backed by nothing but the Taxpayer's ability to pay Taxes. Each time that is done it only produces more Debt the people have to pay through taxes.This is why Congress has to continually raise taxes upon us in order to pay for that created Debt by Fiat. it is the practice of Deficit Spening by Congress with keeping this Fiat system going.

    It shouldn't take a lot of common sense to understand that eventually, the Dollar just cannot be stretched anymore in overcoming the Debt which the Fiat Paper system creates out of thin air. The more politicians are free to spend, and spend, and spend, at will, the more Debt created, and the more Dollars have to be printed to cover it, and thus more Taxes upon the peoples is required to pay for it all.

    Eventually, the peoples pockets are fleeced, and they have not enough wealth to cover those Taxes. We've already long reached that point, which has produced a Deficit with our National Debt. We've reached the point to where just the Interest on the National Debt is difficult to pay off. It's because the Value of the Dollar has been made so weak by this Fiat system, that it's made the Dollar no longer strong enough to cover that Debt. To try and counter that weakness, foreign governments that were very willing to buy up part of that Debt with purchasing U.S. Treasury Notes (like Red China), are now having doubt as to those Notes being a good investment.


    Taxation or Balance The Budget

    We keep hearing basically only TWO offered resolutions to this Debt, more Taxation or Balance the National Debt, which is trillions of dollars in the red. Every major system of government cutting their spending is being proposed, while not much to really help the people is. And further, just balancing the budget by paying off the National Debt (with Interest) isn't going to correct the problem of Fiat Deficit Spending that got us to this economic point.

    Going back to a Gold Standard economic system will... correct the Fiat Debt paper mistake. Yet Congress' thinking is going to naturally keep to what it's doing instead, and try to find another way to correct our U.S. monetary policy. But it won't be able to. Thus we are going to continually be Taxed until we become like a third-world nation, with no Middle Class society, and the wealth only in the hands of the ruling class, which is exactly what the Fiat Debt system is DESIGNED to do. It is designed to prepare us for the coming of the 'mark of the beast' requirement for buying and selling (Rev.13:11-17).
     
  2. Peltast

    Peltast New Member

    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    1
    The last book of the Bible has been interpreted in all manner of ways by all manner of people, and I see no reason to believe that it is a prediction of debt. However it is true that fractional reserve banking is part of the dilemma facing the global economy today.
     
  3. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207
    What I wrote reveals the how of the mark of the beast being instituted. It's to cause the events of the 3rd and 4th Seals regarding the balances of commerce and famine.

    Might want to study Revelation 13 again, especially the latter part of the chapter about a 'mark' instituted to be able to buy and sell, and all who refuse to take it are to be killed.
     
  4. Strat

    Strat New Member

    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    25
    Regardless of how anyone see's it,this is the test between the flesh and the spirit and which one we will serve...pray for the grace to endure it
     
  5. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    13,101
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Why does this matter to a Christian who is being redeemed?
     
  6. xBluxTunicx82

    xBluxTunicx82 New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    4
    It matters because despite what you have been taught, you are still responsible for the Kingdom here on earth. It seems as though many, not necessarily you, are overwhelmed with the 'waiting' for Christ to return to 'rapture' you away while the evil perish in fire. Study the parables over and over again until it is clear that in every instance the 'bad' is separated from the 'good' first. This being said, take a good hard look at WHO has owned and operated the world banking system and who still backs a corrupt system of usury! It isn't Christians, thats for sure!

    “Thus says the Lord GOD, You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz, and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx, and the jasper; The ​
    lapis lazuli
    , the turquoise, and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, was in you. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created. Until unrighteousness was found in you.” Ezekial 28:13-15 ​


    We can see that Lucifer himself was adorned with all of the precious metals that relate to money today. Its no wonder why the love of money is the root(foundation) of all evil. ​


    [background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." Here we are admonished NOT to owe a man anything, yet so many Christians base their lives around a never ending cycle of debt.[/background]

    [background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Deuteronomy 15:1 "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]At the end of [/background]every[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] seven years thou shalt make a release."[/background]

    [background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Does this ever happen with our money or debt system? Not in this day and age, and its because the very people behind the current debt system absolutely despise everything OF God. They have no use for His law, yet they purport to follow it more closely than anyone else. Basing their beliefs on an ancient pagan religion thanks to the Babylonians. [/background]

    The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender. (Proverbs 22:7 KJV)

    Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. (1 Corinthians 7:23 KJV)[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)] [/background]
     
  7. Strat

    Strat New Member

    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    25
    Money has no inherent value,it is a contrived and calculated means to an end....think Gold,Paper and Silver has value,try eating it,drinking ir or wearing it......the wealtheist man on earth would give it all in exchange for a glass of water or a bite of food or perhaps a few rags of clothing under the right circumstances....the things that God has provided through his creation to sustain our life is all that has any value in this world in a phyisical sense,the value of money is assigned to it by man sometimes in a legitimate way to meet people's needs and sometimes in a fraudulent way to meet the needs of a few.
     
  8. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207
    Isa 2:19-22
    19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
    20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
    21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
    22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
    (KJV)
     
  9. Stan

    Stan New Member

    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    5
    As a strict point of interest, although paper money in my country is 'Legal Tender', it is not required by Law, to be accepted. It just means if accepted, and you get it to the bank, it will be honoured as such.
    I worked for a company years ago, who's policy was that if you were a new client and didn't have an account with us, ALL transactions were Bank Draft or Money Order ONLY. Cash was not acceptable.
    I see many stores these days, who refuse to take bills any larger than $20, even though the $20 is the most counterfeited of them all.
    FYI
     
  10. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba New Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes Received:
    126
    Money is created when you sign a loan paper at the bank.

    That is where our money supply comes from. It is not backed by gold or anything of value. It is backed by your signature on a loan document.

    It is a system that works pretty good because most people pay their debts ..... then get new ones and increase the money supply even more.

    But it is an ever expanding system that cannot continue forever. Not quite a ponzi scheme , but will collapse some day anyway.

    All is not lost. Look at all our infrastructure , homes , highways , buildings , hydro electric dams , military , highways .... everything you can think of was built by this system and it will all remain even if you take all the paper money out of the equation.

    The new monetary system will most likely be a simple debit and credit computerized chip for each individual.
     
  11. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207
    Debt paper is HOW the internationalist bankers behind the almost complete ten horned, seven headed, ten crowned beast system have gained world-wide control over the economies of the nations.

    A mystery - if one understands who God was symbolically referring to in Ezekiel 28 that originally served Him at His Altar, then notice how that one's fall involved a quest for wealth and ultimate control. Per Rev.12:3-4, Satan originally rebelled against God using a world system of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns. The one of Rev.13:1 has ten crowns instead; it's for the end of days, our generation.
     
  12. TJM

    TJM New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    This argument is not based wholly upon accurate statements, nor does it make a convincing case that it is identifying Biblical prophesy.

    The claim that there was no inflation or deflation in the days of silver certificates is false. Inflation and deflation are not - and were not - purely functions of the amount of precious metals that could be exchanged for currency. Inflation is a reduction in purchasing power. Prices of goods fluctuated when silver certificates were used.

    The claim that central bankers "began" the movement away from the gold standard is also incorrect. That movement began in the 1800s. And in the 1800s, the situation is far more complex than this article suggests. Bank failures were rampant, there were multiple currencies - some regional, some national - backed by fiat, gold, or silver. There was contentious debate over how to stabilize the currency due to fluctuating demand for gold and silver, the lack of a coherent national banking system, and the desire by some to move away from already then-existing fiat money.

    The argument gets even murkier when it infers motivations about a "shabby little secret" and "wild explanations" that are allegedly "designed to keep you off-track." These are statements about motivations and what is in mens' hearts. The author lacks divine power to determine those motivations (1 Kings 8:39) and, on top of that, offers no evidence of any sort to support the suggestions of improper motivations. That error is compounded with a sloppy definition of inflation. Inflation, as noted above, is about purchasing power. It is partly dependent upon volume of currency in circulation, but not solely. For example, if the money supply expands (more money in circulation) but a weak economy results in substantially lower demand for goods (and a resultant drop in prices), then there can still be deflation. Indeed, this is what many economists have been concerned about in our current economic problem. As the author's argument notes, our system favors mild inflation. Despite the Fed printing money hand over fist, economists are still concerned about deflation. It is not so simple as more money leading to inflation and less money leading to deflation. There are many other factors, such as employment rates, interest rates, foreign exchange rates, trade patterns, and so on.

    Much of the argument in the original post offers sweeping and simplistic explanations for national economic trends, attributing them to one or a few simple variables (gold standard, inflation, some apparent trend of companies not paying enough), while discounting other substantial and more complex variables (wars, embargos, lawful and unlawful immigration, family breakdown, new technology, greater interconnectedness of world markets, better logistical infrastucture, etc, etc). In short, it is a convenient narrative that does little to enhance understanding.

    The mental leap from that simplistic narrative to the assertion that this is the lead up to Rev 13:11-17 is unconvincing, to put it mildly. There is a lengthy chain of inferences omitted to go from the currency being devalued to someone, somehow, asserting control over the world. If anything, it would probably be much easier for someone to gain power by strengthening our economy, not by weakening it. A weak economy slows coordination and communication, offers fewer tools to incentivize or punish behaviors, causes people to question authority and doubt the ruling class, and forces the ruling class or person to govern inefficiently.

    One verse comes to mind when I hear people inflate current economic problems into an escatological discussion: 2 Corinthians 12:9. Rather than debate whether our economic woes are the final lead-up to Revelation - something that you and I have zero power over - it is better to reflect upon why this so concerns us. If it is part of God's plan, then why worry about it? More importantly, if the fiat money system is the magic bullet that God is using to trigger events in Revelations, then what is the point of arguing against it? Leaving aside the issue of whether the author's argument is convincing (obviously, I do not think it is), if I were convinced by the author's argument, my response would not be to struggle against a chain of events that God has set in motion. My response would be to go into God's word and look for guidance for how I am to respond. The starting point appears to be 2 Corinthians 12:9. His grace is sufficient. If I am to live in time of economic turmoil, then that is my lot in life. I am not aware of any verses instructing me to constantly be looking for ways to delay prophecies in Revelation from being fulfilled.
     
  13. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207
    Yes, there was inflation and deflation prior to the Silver Certificate, and it involved inflation of a PAPER DOLLAR. In U.S. history, that goes back even to the Continental Dollar used to prop up war debt in the U.S. Revolutionary War. When the war was over, the Continental soldiers were paid in those worthless inflated dollars; they threw them on the ground and the people broke out their gold and silver again.

    When the Federal Reserve system was established in 1913, it ensured recessions and depressions would be scientifically created, since they gained the power to both inflate and deflate the U.S. dollar at will, with absolutely no congressional oversight. Even today, there still is no congressional oversight of this group of central bankers.


    The plan began earlier than the 1800's even, if you want to get technical. One should read what ex-President Andrew Jackson had to say about the New York banker's trist like Nicolaus Biddle to force him into renewing the central bank they established in that time. One should read how George Washington and Thomas Jefferson also understood the danger of international banking trying to get control of the U.S. economy. There's plenty of history availble about the House of Rothschild from Europe. Morgan and Schiff were Rothschild reps. in the U.S.




    The "shabby little secret" I refer to are U.S. bankers secret meeting at the Jekyll Island, Georgia resort to draw up their plans for establishing the Federal Reserve System. A good work to read on the subject is Creature From Jekyll Island, for those interested. It includes later quotes from some of those bankers about their secrecy for that meet, and what they feared if the American public found out what they were doing, which is why they admitted to being given aliases when getting on board the train from New York. Their first naming attempt to get it passed used Aldrich's name (Aldrich Bill), then they tried it under the Federal Reserve name. In reality, the Federal Reserve, which sounds like it's a legal part of U.S. Constitutional government, but actually it is not. It's a private banking system, and it pays taxes. And it controls the American economy with no Congressional oversight still today.

    Nice try, but your attempt to discredit isn't going to work.
     
  14. TJM

    TJM New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, to recap, I asserted (among other things) that:
    1) The original argument has factual errors
    1a) An example of such a factual error is the claim that inflation and deflation did not occur prior to 1913.
    1b) Another example of a factual error is the claim that the movement away from the gold standard began in the 1900s.
    2) The original argument infers motivations that the author is not qualified to judge, since he is not God.
    2a) An example of inferring motivation is the "shabby little secret" about reforming the income tax system in which the real reason for reform is allegedly not as we are led to believe. Such a motivation is not one the author is qualified to render, as per 1 Kings 8:39.

    What I see here is a rebuttal in which you assert:
    1) There are, indeed, factual errors in the original argument.
    1a) It is correct that inflation and deflation occurred prior to 1913, contrary to what the original argument asserts.
    1b) It is correct that the movement away from the gold standard began earlier than the original argument asserts.
    2) When the original argument references a "shabby little secret" of why Congress amended tax laws in 1933, what the argument is actually referring to is a meeting at Jeckyll Island, 23 years before that. How this refutes 1 Kings 8:39 is unclear.

    But, I was hoping that my final paragraph would get more attention. Regardless of whether I "discredit" the original argument, 2 Corinthians 12:9 remains true. In addition to that, I would add in Romans 8:28. I'm not sure how one can read those two verses and then get all bent out of shape over the Fed, fiat money, and shabby secrets.
     
  15. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba New Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes Received:
    126
    Here is another way to look at (and understand) why we have our current monetary system.

    First of all , back when the money was still backed by gold ..... there was not (physically) enough dollars to go around. In other words populations were increasing , business and prosperity was increasing , and A HUGE AMOUNT of currency was needed (so that the people could have access to some)

    There was not enough gold in the world to back up the amount of currency we needed .

    We went off the gold standard and started using things like "Gross National Product" to back our dollars.

    Not such a bad idea , instead of backed by gold , money was backed more by the output and production of the nation.

    Still in effect today ..... that is why American Dollars are still the most sought after (worldwide) and North Korean currency the least desirable.

    But the heart of it is still like I said in my earlier post ...... when we sign a loan at the bank , then is when 90% of the money is created.

    I sign my loan for $100,000 and give it to the house builder or car builder or whomever I want . That "new" money is backed by my signature , or your signature , and we spend 10 years paying it back , while we live in our house and drive our car .... all because we wanted to buy something we did not have the money for.

    Just like the governments do.

    Difference is we pay back our loans , and we also must pay the government loans (by taxation) ..... but the government does not actually produce anything .... only we do.

    If we were more careful how we voted , our money supply would be just fine.

    We are never careful how we vote. We cause our own problems by believing liberal-socialist propaganda and vote for our own selfish reasons.

    We the people do it all..

    No conspiracy is required.
     
  16. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207

    Your Biblical quotes are off the topic of this financial history. You only try to use those to fool others into thinking there's some kind of support for your position against the revealing of the internationalist financial and banking elites that have caused the economic problems of today.

    "Despite my views about the value to society of
    greater publicity for the affairs of corporations, there
    was an occasion, near the close of 1910, when I was
    as secretive—indeed as furtive—as any conspirator
    • . . . I do not feel it is any exaggeration to speak
    of our secret expedition to Jekyl Island as the occasion
    of the actual conception of what eventually became
    the Federal Reserve System." (Frank Vanderlip)

    The Jekyll Island secret meeting to draw up the plans by New York bankers for the Federal Reserve is history already documented out of the mouths of some of its participants. God is going to bring that system and its internationalist bankers behind down eventually, when Jesus returns. We'll see if you're singing the same tune then.

    "This act establishes the most gigantic trust on
    earth. . . . When the President signs this act the
    invisible government by the money power, proven
    to exist by the Money Trust investigation, will be
    legalized. . . .
    This is the Aldrich Bill in disguise. . . .
    The new law will create inflation whenever the
    trusts want inflation. ... (Congressman Charles A. Lindburg Sr.)


    And that's exactly what the Federal Reserve system has done, even completely removing the U.S. dollar off the gold standard in the 1970's, an act which ex-Chairman of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan did not agree with prior to his appointment.


    Not enough gold and silver is actually a proponent of the pro-Fiat paper dollar sector who supported the idea of the Federal Reserve system. That's one of the excuses they use. In reality, the U.S. dollar had been backed by gold since the 1970's when the Fed removed it completely off any and all gold backing.

    A limitation of gold reserves isn't the problem when it comes to the quantity argument. An inflated dollar means it takes a lot more of them to buy something. What sets prices of goods and services anyway? Supply and demand yes, but monetarily the VALUE of the dollar greatly affects prices. When buying power goes down through inflation, it means more dollars to buy those same goods and services because inflation of the dollar forces... prices to go up.

    On a gold standard prices would fluctuate soley based on supply and demand, like how it's supposed to be. The value of the money would be stable. So it's only a matter of printing or coining whatever amounts of money the nation needs to do business. It doesn't limit business, it limits speculation, crazy things like turning mortgage loans into a piece of credit paper treated just like its money in the hand, when most of it it's actually debt that must be gotten out of the people's pockets somewhere else, while the speculators get off scot-free with that confiscated money, or from a government bailout, both supported at taxpayer expense.


    Can still have paper currency with a gold standard. The difference is the paper dollar is more stable. That means its value is not as inflatable or deflatable since its attached to the stability of gold values. Looking at a graph correlation between the value of gold and paper currency in U.S. history shows Fiat paper in steep drops and rises compared to gold. Those steep dips and rises are from the Fed playing with the value of the paper dollar, inflating and deflating it, as it was only fractionally backed by gold prior to the 1970's, not fully backed.

    So if the dollar is real stable, then what must change? The fluctuation of prices based more on supply and demand. It's inflation of the dollar that drives prices up. Let me say that again. It's the de-valuing of the U.S. dollar when Congress keeps allowing more dollars to be printed not backed by anything to be added to the existing money supply that drives costs of goods and services sky high. Under a gold standard backed paper dollar, prices fluctuate only because of supply and demand, and not because of the dollar's value fluctuating.

    The secret reality is the printing of more dollars is used by the politicians and bankers to fund what 'they' want to fund, and make the taxpayers pay for it by getting it out of their pockets through 'Inflation' of the dollar. It is a hidden-tax. And that's what Alan Greenspan said getting off a gold standard would do per his 1966 quote...

    Alan Greenspan (ex-Chairman of the Federal Reserve) on the gold standard in 1966...
    http://www.constitution.org/mon/greenspan_gold.htm

    "In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

    This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." (Alan Greenspan, 1966, Gold and Economic Freedom). (emphais in bold is mine)
     
  17. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    103
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    In the UK the Bank of England is (digitally) printing money by “Quantitative Easing”. The BoE has say £5bn in its account. It presses a button and now it has £55n billion. Neat eh?

    It then uses the “surplus” £50bn to buy government bonds (gilts).. These bonds pay interest so the BoE end up with a “profit”.

    It is estimated that in a couple of years, in time for the next election, £20bn these profits could be transferred to the Treasury to fund a tax cut!
    http://www.telegraph...x-giveaway.html

    Is this the economics of the mad-house or what?


    As I understand QE, in a few years (probably a lot of years), when the economy perks up the bank will sell the bonds and “liquidate” the digital cash – QE in reverse.
    So the BoE has £55bn. It presses a button and now only has £5bn.

    What’s the chances of that?
    What are the chances that the government of the time says “Oh you have £50bn spare”, takes it and spends it?

    Am I missing something?
     
  18. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207

    Well, you might be missing an understanding of the difference between 'debt paper' created by Fiat vs. paper actually backed by something that has a store of value like gold.

    It's like Alan Greenspan said back in the 1960's, gold stands as a protector of property rights. World Socialism, which is what nation's leaders are following today, believes in the confiscation of people's wealth because it does not believe the people are entitled to property rights.
     
  19. lawrance

    lawrance New Member

    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    19
    What was it that Hitler did. he did not use the gold standard did he ?

    So when the system destroyed the German economy like it did. i think Hitler had this economic genius that came up with the solution to turn around the worse affected nation on earth to make it the most powerful.
    Thus terrifying the English powers that ruled or controlled capitalism, that much that it had no option than to insight an underhanded war on Germany because if it did not, it did not have a hope of wining economically against such a nation at all in future, as it's days of glory were finished if it did not.

    So we have this bastard system that destroys people all over the world by tampering and playing games, destroying who they want when they want. and the people are to dumb or brain washed to have a handle on it, and are lead astray by governments who deregulate solid foundations, for a whole lot of reasons.

    Look at the stupidity we have endured now, you can't tell me that they had no idea it was going to happen as it stuck out like dogs balls to me and others i know, and we were like saying this type of greed is complete utter madness as it will come ass up damaging many.
     
  20. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    207
    Hitler had economic help. It's why those like Prescott Bush got in trouble for sending him funds prior to WWII.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

    I.G. Farben was one of the German companies where western funds were funneled through to build Hitler's war machine. Essentially, the international bankers and their conglomerates were responsible for causing WWII.
     
Loading...