Understanding The 144,000

[Davy]

There appears to be a mystery among some brethren about the identity of the 144,000 of Revelation 7. Some think it's just a generalized number, and actually represents a much greater number. Some think they represent the Pre-trib Rapture Theory idea they call "tribulation saints" that turn to Jesus during the tribulation.

But what does the actual Bible Scripture show?

Rev 7:1-4
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

When you see that "four winds" idea, it's about a spiritual matter. In Matthew 24:31 it's about the event of the angels gathering the saints on the day of Christ's coming. In Ezekiel 37:9, it's a similar idea. Thus the "four winds" is connected here with the last day of this world per this Revelation timeline.

At this point, the "four angels" holding those "four winds" are told to hold them, until the servants of God are 'sealed' in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
KJV

Then in the Revelation 7:5-8 verses are named 144,000 of the literal tribes of the seed of Israel that are 'sealed'.

That 'seal' is God's sealing by The Holy Spirit per Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. That sealing is in PREP... for the "great tribulation", meaning they are sealed PRIOR to the tribulation start.

Do you remember the Book in Revelation 5 that had the seven seals, that only The Lamb was worthy to open? And then He opens them, giving a description of the Seals? That is also what Paul was pointing to in Ephesians 4:30 about being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Remember Lord Jesus said The Holy Spirit would be our Teacher (John 14:26).

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV

There is no mistaking it then, that these 144,000 are elect believers on Christ of the 'seed' of Israel, prepared prior to the tribulation for spiritual battle against the beast at the end of this world. Doesn't seem to be a lot, does it? These do not represent saved Gentile believers. But they are mentioned next...

Rev 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God Which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, "Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."

Those represent the group of Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. They apparently are not numbered because of so many. Are they 'sealed' also, like the 144,000? YES! Because they are shown at the Throne standing before The Lamb, clothed in white robes (representing good works).

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
14 And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
KJV

They "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". That means these went through... the "great tribulation" and overcome by remaining Faithful waiting on Lord Jesus. It means they were SEALED with God's Seal also.

That is why these descriptions about their standing before Christ with His dwelling with them, and He leads them to the River of the waters of Life, and they thirst no more, hunger no more, etc. All those descriptors are the future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign, including their service in that temple, which is the Millennium sanctuary of Ezekiel 40 forward.

HOW... do we know this 'sealing' is for before the "great tribulation" starts? Because the time when the 'sealing' is for, is about the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period.

Rev 9:4-6
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
KJV

There's 3 final periods given in Revelation 8 through 11 that involve the final events leading up to Christ's return to defeat the beast and gather His Church...

1st Period = 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe:
This is when that 'seal' above is for, a time just prior to the tribulation, and then through it. And note per the above Rev.9 that only those who do NOT... have God's seal are able to be stung by the locusts.

2nd Period = 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe:
This period begins with the loosing of the four angels bound at the river Euphrates (Revelation 9:12-15). This represents the "great tribulation" time when the "beast" of Revelation 11 ascends out of the bottomless pit to deceive the whole world. It shows the existence of another built temple in Jerusalem where God's two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, a latter day event representing the "great tribulation" timing.

We also know this 6th Trumpet period represents the coming tribulation because on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe is the following...

3rd Period = 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe:
The events of Christ's coming and conquering of the kingdoms of this world, and reward to His saints, and wrath upon the wicked.

Thus Lord Jesus made a distinction with believing Israelites of the seed of Israel that are sealed with God's seal in prep for the tribulation events. And then there's a "great multitude" of Gentiles that are shown having gone through the tribulation and were saved, which means they must have been 'sealed' with God's seal also.

 

[Marty fox]

There appears to be a mystery among some brethren about the identity of the 144,000 of Revelation 7. Some think it's just a generalized number, and actually represents a much greater number. Some think they represent the Pre-trib Rapture Theory idea they call "tribulation saints" that turn to Jesus during the tribulation.

But what does the actual Bible Scripture show?

Rev 7:1-4
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

When you see that "four winds" idea, it's about a spiritual matter. In Matthew 24:31 it's about the event of the angels gathering the saints on the day of Christ's coming. In Ezekiel 37:9, it's a similar idea. Thus the "four winds" is connected here with the last day of this world per this Revelation timeline.

At this point, the "four angels" holding those "four winds" are told to hold them, until the servants of God are 'sealed' in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
KJV

Then in the Revelation 7:5-8 verses are named 144,000 of the literal tribes of the seed of Israel that are 'sealed'.

That 'seal' is God's sealing by The Holy Spirit per Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. That sealing is in PREP... for the "great tribulation", meaning they are sealed PRIOR to the tribulation start.

Do you remember the Book in Revelation 5 that had the seven seals, that only The Lamb was worthy to open? And then He opens them, giving a description of the Seals? That is also what Paul was pointing to in Ephesians 4:30 about being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Remember Lord Jesus said The Holy Spirit would be our Teacher (John 14:26).

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV

There is no mistaking it then, that these 144,000 are elect believers on Christ of the 'seed' of Israel, prepared prior to the tribulation for spiritual battle against the beast at the end of this world. Doesn't seem to be a lot, does it? These do not represent saved Gentile believers. But they are mentioned next...

Rev 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God Which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, "Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."

Those represent the group of Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. They apparently are not numbered because of so many. Are they 'sealed' also, like the 144,000? YES! Because they are shown at the Throne standing before The Lamb, clothed in white robes (representing good works).

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
14 And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
KJV

They "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". That means these went through... the "great tribulation" and overcome by remaining Faithful waiting on Lord Jesus. It means they were SEALED with God's Seal also.

That is why these descriptions about their standing before Christ with His dwelling with them, and He leads them to the River of the waters of Life, and they thirst no more, hunger no more, etc. All those descriptors are the future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign, including their service in that temple, which is the Millennium sanctuary of Ezekiel 40 forward.

HOW... do we know this 'sealing' is for before the "great tribulation" starts? Because the time when the 'sealing' is for, is about the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period.

Rev 9:4-6
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
KJV

There's 3 final periods given in Revelation 8 through 11 that involve the final events leading up to Christ's return to defeat the beast and gather His Church...

1st Period = 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe:
This is when that 'seal' above is for, a time just prior to the tribulation, and then through it. And note per the above Rev.9 that only those who do NOT... have God's seal are able to be stung by the locusts.

2nd Period = 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe:
This period begins with the loosing of the four angels bound at the river Euphrates (Revelation 9:12-15). This represents the "great tribulation" time when the "beast" of Revelation 11 ascends out of the bottomless pit to deceive the whole world. It shows the existence of another built temple in Jerusalem where God's two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, a latter day event representing the "great tribulation" timing.

We also know this 6th Trumpet period represents the coming tribulation because on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe is the following...

3rd Period = 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe:
The events of Christ's coming and conquering of the kingdoms of this world, and reward to His saints, and wrath upon the wicked.

Thus Lord Jesus made a distinction with believing Israelites of the seed of Israel that are sealed with God's seal in prep for the tribulation events. And then there's a "great multitude" of Gentiles that are shown having gone through the tribulation and were saved, which means they must have been 'sealed' with God's seal also.

How can the great multitude be gentiles when the bible says they are from every tribe people tongue and nation? Israel is a nation too

 

[Philip James]

hmmm anybody know where we can find 144000 consecrated virgins?

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Truman]

There appears to be a mystery among some brethren about the identity of the 144,000 of Revelation 7. Some think it's just a generalized number, and actually represents a much greater number. Some think they represent the Pre-trib Rapture Theory idea they call "tribulation saints" that turn to Jesus during the tribulation.

But what does the actual Bible Scripture show?

Rev 7:1-4
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

When you see that "four winds" idea, it's about a spiritual matter. In Matthew 24:31 it's about the event of the angels gathering the saints on the day of Christ's coming. In Ezekiel 37:9, it's a similar idea. Thus the "four winds" is connected here with the last day of this world per this Revelation timeline.

At this point, the "four angels" holding those "four winds" are told to hold them, until the servants of God are 'sealed' in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
KJV

Then in the Revelation 7:5-8 verses are named 144,000 of the literal tribes of the seed of Israel that are 'sealed'.

That 'seal' is God's sealing by The Holy Spirit per Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. That sealing is in PREP... for the "great tribulation", meaning they are sealed PRIOR to the tribulation start.

Do you remember the Book in Revelation 5 that had the seven seals, that only The Lamb was worthy to open? And then He opens them, giving a description of the Seals? That is also what Paul was pointing to in Ephesians 4:30 about being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Remember Lord Jesus said The Holy Spirit would be our Teacher (John 14:26).

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV

There is no mistaking it then, that these 144,000 are elect believers on Christ of the 'seed' of Israel, prepared prior to the tribulation for spiritual battle against the beast at the end of this world. Doesn't seem to be a lot, does it? These do not represent saved Gentile believers. But they are mentioned next...

Rev 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God Which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, "Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."

Those represent the group of Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. They apparently are not numbered because of so many. Are they 'sealed' also, like the 144,000? YES! Because they are shown at the Throne standing before The Lamb, clothed in white robes (representing good works).

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
14 And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
KJV

They "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". That means these went through... the "great tribulation" and overcome by remaining Faithful waiting on Lord Jesus. It means they were SEALED with God's Seal also.

That is why these descriptions about their standing before Christ with His dwelling with them, and He leads them to the River of the waters of Life, and they thirst no more, hunger no more, etc. All those descriptors are the future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign, including their service in that temple, which is the Millennium sanctuary of Ezekiel 40 forward.

HOW... do we know this 'sealing' is for before the "great tribulation" starts? Because the time when the 'sealing' is for, is about the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period.

Rev 9:4-6
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
KJV

There's 3 final periods given in Revelation 8 through 11 that involve the final events leading up to Christ's return to defeat the beast and gather His Church...

1st Period = 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe:
This is when that 'seal' above is for, a time just prior to the tribulation, and then through it. And note per the above Rev.9 that only those who do NOT... have God's seal are able to be stung by the locusts.

2nd Period = 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe:
This period begins with the loosing of the four angels bound at the river Euphrates (Revelation 9:12-15). This represents the "great tribulation" time when the "beast" of Revelation 11 ascends out of the bottomless pit to deceive the whole world. It shows the existence of another built temple in Jerusalem where God's two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, a latter day event representing the "great tribulation" timing.

We also know this 6th Trumpet period represents the coming tribulation because on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe is the following...

3rd Period = 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe:
The events of Christ's coming and conquering of the kingdoms of this world, and reward to His saints, and wrath upon the wicked.

Thus Lord Jesus made a distinction with believing Israelites of the seed of Israel that are sealed with God's seal in prep for the tribulation events. And then there's a "great multitude" of Gentiles that are shown having gone through the tribulation and were saved, which means they must have been 'sealed' with God's seal also.

Your presentation appears correct to me. Shalom.

 

[Curtis]

The Lamb, clothed in white robes (representing good works

Per Revelation 19, white robes are the righteousness of saints.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


David Guzik has interesting info on the 144,000:

A Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand: These 144,000 were last seen in Revelation 7, where they were identified as a group of Jewish believers who minister during the great tribulation, and are given a seal of protection throughout that period. Since they stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb, it shows that they emerge victorious from the great tribulation. The beast of Revelation 13 certainly has not defeated the 144,000; here they are triumphant, worshipping, and standing firm with Jesus.

In Revelation 7, the 144,000 are seen at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. In Revelation 14, it shows them in triumph at the end of the Great Tribulation.

b. Standing on Mount Zion: Why are they gathered on Mount Zion? Zion - the ancient name for the hills that make up Jerusalem - is the place where the Messiah gathers His redeemed and reigns over the earth (Psalms 48, Isa 24:23, Joe 2:32, Oba 1:17 and Oba 1:21, Mic 4:1; Mic 4:7).

i. Some commentators see this Mount Zion as the heavenly Zion referred to in Gal 4:26. In this thinking, the 144,000 are victims of this beast, and are now in heaven with Jesus. But that view doesn’t seem to match with the context at all. It also makes us wonder what good God’s seal on the 144,000 amounted to (Rev 7:4).

ii. The 144,000 are like the young Jewish men who survived the fiery furnace in Dan 3:19-25. They prove God’s ability to preserve His people.

c. Having His Father’s name written on their foreheads: The followers of Satan and the beast may have a mark on their hand or forehead (Rev 13:16-17). But this mark is just a copy of the idea behind the identifying mark on the foreheads of each one of the 144,000, showing that they belong to the Father.

 

[Stumpmaster]

There appears to be a mystery among some brethren about the identity of the 144,000 of Revelation 7. Some think it's just a generalized number, and actually represents a much greater number. Some think they represent the Pre-trib Rapture Theory idea they call "tribulation saints" that turn to Jesus during the tribulation.

But what does the actual Bible Scripture show?

Rev 7:1-4
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

When you see that "four winds" idea, it's about a spiritual matter. In Matthew 24:31 it's about the event of the angels gathering the saints on the day of Christ's coming. In Ezekiel 37:9, it's a similar idea. Thus the "four winds" is connected here with the last day of this world per this Revelation timeline.

At this point, the "four angels" holding those "four winds" are told to hold them, until the servants of God are 'sealed' in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
KJV

Then in the Revelation 7:5-8 verses are named 144,000 of the literal tribes of the seed of Israel that are 'sealed'.

That 'seal' is God's sealing by The Holy Spirit per Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. That sealing is in PREP... for the "great tribulation", meaning they are sealed PRIOR to the tribulation start.

Do you remember the Book in Revelation 5 that had the seven seals, that only The Lamb was worthy to open? And then He opens them, giving a description of the Seals? That is also what Paul was pointing to in Ephesians 4:30 about being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Remember Lord Jesus said The Holy Spirit would be our Teacher (John 14:26).

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV

There is no mistaking it then, that these 144,000 are elect believers on Christ of the 'seed' of Israel, prepared prior to the tribulation for spiritual battle against the beast at the end of this world. Doesn't seem to be a lot, does it? These do not represent saved Gentile believers. But they are mentioned next...

Rev 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God Which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, "Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."

Those represent the group of Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. They apparently are not numbered because of so many. Are they 'sealed' also, like the 144,000? YES! Because they are shown at the Throne standing before The Lamb, clothed in white robes (representing good works).

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
14 And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
KJV

They "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". That means these went through... the "great tribulation" and overcome by remaining Faithful waiting on Lord Jesus. It means they were SEALED with God's Seal also.

That is why these descriptions about their standing before Christ with His dwelling with them, and He leads them to the River of the waters of Life, and they thirst no more, hunger no more, etc. All those descriptors are the future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign, including their service in that temple, which is the Millennium sanctuary of Ezekiel 40 forward.

HOW... do we know this 'sealing' is for before the "great tribulation" starts? Because the time when the 'sealing' is for, is about the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period.

Rev 9:4-6
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
KJV

There's 3 final periods given in Revelation 8 through 11 that involve the final events leading up to Christ's return to defeat the beast and gather His Church...

1st Period = 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe:
This is when that 'seal' above is for, a time just prior to the tribulation, and then through it. And note per the above Rev.9 that only those who do NOT... have God's seal are able to be stung by the locusts.

2nd Period = 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe:
This period begins with the loosing of the four angels bound at the river Euphrates (Revelation 9:12-15). This represents the "great tribulation" time when the "beast" of Revelation 11 ascends out of the bottomless pit to deceive the whole world. It shows the existence of another built temple in Jerusalem where God's two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days, a latter day event representing the "great tribulation" timing.

We also know this 6th Trumpet period represents the coming tribulation because on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe is the following...

3rd Period = 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe:
The events of Christ's coming and conquering of the kingdoms of this world, and reward to His saints, and wrath upon the wicked.

Thus Lord Jesus made a distinction with believing Israelites of the seed of Israel that are sealed with God's seal in prep for the tribulation events. And then there's a "great multitude" of Gentiles that are shown having gone through the tribulation and were saved, which means they must have been 'sealed' with God's seal also.

As with the other numerical representations in the disclosure Jesus gave John to write down, there is symbolism that speaks to the meaningful purpose of the 144,000 undefiled followers of the Lamb.

(10 x 10 x 10)(12 x 12)

Ten cubed x Twelve squared = 144,000

Combined Strength of Quantum Fulfillment x Corresponding Creation of Governmental Division

 

[Taken]

Understanding The 144,000

WHO are they?

* Men of Gods People Israel.
* 12,000 each of the 12 Tribes OF Israel, God Established centuries ago.

WHERE have THEY been?

* Bodily Dead, Souls saved, spirits quickened and REDEEMED, Resurrected TO HEAVEN, and Before the Throne of God, IN HEAVEN.

WHERE "shall" THEY BE "SENT" ?

* Bodily, soul, spirit (Wholly whole), SENT TO EARTH, WITH the LAMB of GOD...
TO; Mount Zion.

WHY "sent" to Mt ZION ?

* Because DURING the Tribulation, ISRAEL, (Gods People) ARE FIRST, Given TESTIMONY BY Gods TWO Witnesses, OF Gods Word, IN Jerusalem.
After THE TWO witnesses have finished their Testimony TO Israel...THE TWO witnesses are KILLED.
* ISRAEL is NOTIFIED, TO FLEE TO the Mountains.
* ON Mt. Zion, Every Tribe is Represented, with their kinsmen, and the Lamb of God...
* FULFILLING Gods PROMISE OF:
Forgiveness, Salvation and Baptism of the Holy Spirit to HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL.


John 1:
[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.[36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!


Rev 14
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
[5] And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Pss 94:
For the LORD will not cast off His people, Nor will He forsake His inheritance.

God is Fulfilling His Prophecy of Saving HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL and Notifying us HOW.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There is no mistaking it then, that these 144,000 are elect believers on Christ of the 'seed' of Israel, prepared prior to the tribulation for spiritual battle against the beast at the end of this world.

Romans 11 and Rev. 7:5-8
confirms that this is the remnant Jewish population who become Chrisitians.

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Since (IMHO) Rev. 11:15 is the last trumpet when we are resurrected, evidenced by appearance of the multitude in heaven, we can see that Revelation is not in chronological order. We are shown different vantage points that describe the same event.
The massive worldwide earthquake in Rev. 6:12 is likely the same one described in Rev. 16:18.
I believe when Jesus ascended to heaven, He was given the scrol at that time and opened it. How else would we know what was in it. It's a written scroll with orders that describe events that will take place in the future. After each seal is opened, the angel says: "come and see", let me show you what this represents in the future, not when he opened it.
Of course this is confusing to us because we are in a physical realm - in time. Time is part of our physical dimension. Heaven is outside of time, not confined to physical properties, nor events. So things up there are "all ready" a done deal BUT down here, "not yet"!

Those represent the group of Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. They apparently are not numbered because of so many. Are they 'sealed' also, like the 144,000? YES! Because they are shown at the Throne standing before The Lamb, clothed in white robes (representing good works)

Right. However, The Church, seen as the multitude in heaven, therefore, must be raptured first before the Remnant 144k are sealed. Could be just moments or the same day - but not 7 years as some imagine an extended wedding reception. Why? Because this remnant stays on earth with Jesus and must endure the GT. They missed the rapture. They believe in Jesus when "every eye sees Him" descend - after the rapture/resurrection and so must persevere through all the events and on into the Millennial Kingdom. They will experience the "second resurrection" after the Millennial kingdom. In Rev. 14, we see that these 144k are male virgins. Why? My theory is that Israel will repopulate the planet. Their remnant must also include virgin women as well. It is stated thatbm there will be newborns and since we can no longer procreate after being resurrected, who else can? Will there be more Christians other than those Jewish converts (that may amount to 1/3 of the present Jewish population)? Likely, since we also see peoples from many nations visiting Israel and Jesus during rhe Millenial Kingdom.

HOW... do we know this 'sealing' is for before the "great tribulation" starts? Because the time when the 'sealing' is for, is about the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period.

Wait a minute. They are sealed before any harm comes to the earth (trees and grass); yet with the first trumpet, we see 1/3 of the planet on fire.

And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

This has been conflicting to me until now. I previously stated that the remnant Israel believes in Jesus only after they see him; yet apparently they are akready sealed before any harm comes to the earth. The how could they not also be rapture with us? Sealed by God may mean in heaven, written in the Book of Life, already, but not yet realized on earth. They believe in God and are sealed :
"to be saved" as we all have been. When we were born, we weren't saved yet, but ordained to be and already written in the Book of Life.

And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

This is definitely going to be horrifying. Stephen King made a movie that had huge demon locusts that would only sting certain people. Wow it was scary. But those people would die in the movie. These people are not allowed to die. Raid won't help them, guns ... doubt it. Bullets will go right through them, they are from another dimension.
Will we still be here watching them fly over to us, look us over, see we have the mark of God and pass us by and then watching others get attacked?
If my view is correct, that the 7th Trumpet is the last,
and the moment of ou rapture, the only way we could avoid the first six trumpet events is if they were all blown simultaneously or rapidly before the events took effect and then accumulated over time. We are shown what each trumpet and bowl represents individually, but it doesn't follow necessarily that they aren't all blown and released together. I am not sure about this.

 

[Curtis]

My theory is that Israel will repopulate the planet. Their remnant must also include virgin women as well. It is stated thatbm there will be newborns and since we can no longer procreate after being resurrected, who else can? Will there be more Christians other than those Jewish converts (that may amount to 1/3 of the present Jewish population)? Likely, since we also see peoples from many nations visiting Israel and Jesus during rhe Millenial Kingdom.

In Zechariah 14:5 Jesus returns, saves Jerusalem, wipes out the attacking armies, and we know that’s when the millennial kingdom reign on earth begins.

Zechariah 14:16-21 goes on to say those left alive from the nations such as Egypt, go up into the city to worship.

They are called heathen in verse 18, , and sacrifice animals, verse 21, and those will be the nations on earth during the millennium, that Jesus rules with a rod of iron - and they will be doing the procreating.

Maranatha

 

[Davy]

Per Revelation 19, white robes are the righteousness of saints.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


David Guzik has interesting info on the 144,000:

A Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand: These 144,000 were last seen in Revelation 7, where they were identified as a group of Jewish believers who minister during the great tribulation, and are given a seal of protection throughout that period. Since they stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb, it shows that they emerge victorious from the great tribulation. The beast of Revelation 13 certainly has not defeated the 144,000; here they are triumphant, worshipping, and standing firm with Jesus.

In Revelation 7, the 144,000 are seen at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. In Revelation 14, it shows them in triumph at the end of the Great Tribulation.

b. Standing on Mount Zion: Why are they gathered on Mount Zion? Zion - the ancient name for the hills that make up Jerusalem - is the place where the Messiah gathers His redeemed and reigns over the earth (Psalms 48, Isa 24:23, Joe 2:32, Oba 1:17 and Oba 1:21, Mic 4:1; Mic 4:7).

i. Some commentators see this Mount Zion as the heavenly Zion referred to in Gal 4:26. In this thinking, the 144,000 are victims of this beast, and are now in heaven with Jesus. But that view doesn’t seem to match with the context at all. It also makes us wonder what good God’s seal on the 144,000 amounted to (Rev 7:4).

ii. The 144,000 are like the young Jewish men who survived the fiery furnace in Dan 3:19-25. They prove God’s ability to preserve His people.

c. Having His Father’s name written on their foreheads: The followers of Satan and the beast may have a mark on their hand or forehead (Rev 13:16-17). But this mark is just a copy of the idea behind the identifying mark on the foreheads of each one of the 144,000, showing that they belong to the Father.

I have all sorts of commentaries that came with my BibleSoft software too, but most of them are in fault on this matter because they don't appear to recognize the old 1 Kings 11 split of Israel into two separate kingdoms. Reason is, because the 'Jews' only represent the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi that were split off into their own kingdom at Jerusalem/Judea, called the "kingdom of Judah". That is where the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said the title of 'Jew' originated, i.e., from the tribe of Judah. All those living in Judea took that title of Jew. This is why Apostle Paul said he was a Jew, but born of the tribe of Benjamin. It's because the tribe of Benjamin sided with the tribe of Judah at Jerusalem when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11 forward.

But the ten northern tribes of Israel that became the "kingdom of Israel" at that split which God did, they did not use that title of Jew which comes from Judah. The ten tribes were scattered first, so they didn't didn't even go in the same captivity to Babylon which the Jews of the southern kingdom did. So not understanding this Bible history creates a huge mistake with trying to understand who the 144,000 represent.

What it means is that 'only' the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent the Jews today. The rest represent the scattered ten tribes, which were not called Jews. And the scattered ten tribes are 'lost' still today; they don't know who they are, nor do the Jews know who or where they are today. But God knows, because He prophesied He is going to gather the ten tribes in final. Thus we have the following per accurate Bible history...

Judah = 12,000; Benjamin = 12,000; Levi = 12,000
TOTAL = 36,000 Jews (representing the old kingdom of Judah, 3 tribes)

Reuben = 12,000; Gad = 12,000; Aser = 12,000; Nepthali = 12,000; Manasses = 12,000; Simeon = 12,000; Issachar = 12,000; Zabulon = 12,000; Joseph = 12,000
TOTAL = 108,000 (representing the old kingdom of Israel of ten northern tribes)

Are there Bible hints... as to who the ten scattered tribes of Israel are today? Yes, because in the Book of Hosea God showed He would scatter the ten northern tribes, and they would lose their heritage as Israel, lose knowledge of His feasts, the new moons, etc. But Judah would not lose those things. He then said the time would come when He would make a covenant with the ten tribes and make them dwell safely and would no more call Him with the names of Baal out of their mouths, but would call Him 'Ishi'. And those who had not mercy, He would have mercy on them, and call them the children of God.

Apostle Paul quoted from that Hosea prophecy in Romans 9 to Roman Gentile believers. That gives us a hint to where one place is that the ten tribes were scattered to, i.e. in the West, in Europe. Makes sense too, because in Europe is where the first Christian nations appeared after the Passion of Christ.

 

[GEN2REV]

Modern mainstream Church-ianity teaches (relentlessly) that the 144,000 will all be men and Jewish.

I don't believe the Bible teaches this at all.

 

[Davy]

Romans 11 and Rev. 7:5-8
confirms that this is the remnant Jewish population who become Chrisitians.


Since (IMHO) Rev. 11:15 is the last trumpet when we are resurrected, evidenced by appearance of the multitude in heaven, we can see that Revelation is not in chronological order. We are shown different vantage points that describe the same event.
The massive worldwide earthquake in Rev. 6:12 is likely the same one described in Rev. 16:18.
I believe when Jesus ascended to heaven, He was given the scrol at that time and opened it. How else would we know what was in it. It's a written scroll with orders that describe events that will take place in the future. After each seal is opened, the angel says: "come and see", let me show you what this represents in the future, not when he opened it.
Of course this is confusing to us because we are in a physical realm - in time. Time is part of our physical dimension. Heaven is outside of time, not confined to physical properties, nor events. So things up there are "all ready" a done deal BUT down here, "not yet"!

Yeah, I got all that.

Right. However, The Church, seen as the multitude in heaven, therefore, must be raptured first before the Remnant 144k are sealed.

No, I do not agree with that.

The fact that the world to come events are linked to the "great multitude" points to a future forward view for after Christ's return. The idea of the Church being raptured prior to the great tribulation is a leaven doctrine of men; it is not written anywhere in God's Word. Jesus revealed the order of His return is to be after... that tribulation (see Matthew 24:29-31, and Mark 13:24-27, and I dare you to prove those Scriptures mean a rapture prior to the tribulation).

Not only are events in Revelation written down in the actual order they occur, some Chapters there also move their timelines between past, present, and future. And we must always be mindful of that prophetic movement, for it is the same kind of thing that happens in the Books of God's Old Testament prophets. The descriptions of the "great multitude" is a revealing of events for after... Christ's return, NOT while the tribulation is going on.

 

[Davy]

Modern mainstream Church-ianity teaches (relentlessly) that the 144,000 will all be men and Jewish.

I don't believe the Bible teaches this at all.

You're right, The Scripture in Revelation 7 does not specifically say they have to be men.

But God's Word does... point out that they will all be of the bloodline tribes of Israel. What I explained, from Bible history, is how only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent the Jews in that list. The rest represent ten lost tribe Israelites.

The Scripture prophecy about God's sealing also makes it clear they all... represent Christians sealed for the end of this world.

 

[GEN2REV]

The idea of the Church being raptured prior to the great tribulation is a leaven doctrine of men; it is not written anywhere in God's Word. Jesus revealed the order of His return is to be after... that tribulation (see Matthew 24:29-31, and Mark 13:24-27, and I dare you to prove those Scriptures mean a rapture prior to the tribulation).

Ah, yes. The sweet harmony of sound doctrine.

From the Great Tribulation thread, post #161.
The GREAT TRIBULATION Has Begun!

"Anytime God repeats information in the Bible, it is for a reason. The information is very important to Him, and to those He wishes to reach with it, and He wants it to be absolutely undeniable.

Do these verses from Jesus not tip you over toward a Post-Trib position?

John 6:39 " ... of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day."
John 6:40 " ... everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the Last Day."
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the Last Day."
John 6:54 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day."
John 11:24 " ... I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the Last Day."

And this last verse unquestionably identifies the Lord's Day, the Day of Judgment, as the Last Day of the world.

John 12:48 "He that rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has that which judges him -- the Word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day."

Here we have Jesus repeatedly informing all those who would read His Words til the end of time that He will be returning on the Last Day of the world for His people. Then He specifies beyond any shadow of a doubt what else will take place on that very day."

 

[Davy]

Ah, yes. The sweet harmony of sound doctrine.

From the Great Tribulation thread, post #161.
The GREAT TRIBULATION Has Begun!

"Anytime God repeats information in the Bible, it is for a reason. The information is very important to Him, and to those He wishes to reach with it, and He wants it to be absolutely undeniable.

Do these verses from Jesus not tip you over toward a Post-Trib position?

John 6:39 " ... of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day."
John 6:40 " ... everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the Last Day."
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the Last Day."
John 6:54 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day."
John 11:24 " ... I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the Last Day."

And this last verse unquestionably identifies the Lord's Day, the Day of Judgment, as the Last Day of the world.

John 12:48 "He that rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has that which judges him -- the Word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day."

Here we have Jesus repeatedly informing all those who would read His Words til the end of time that He will be returning on the Last Day of the world for His people. Then He specifies beyond any shadow of a doubt what else will take place on that very day."

Just as with the blindness God put upon the unbelieving Jews according to Apostle Paul, likewise many non-Jews have been blinded away from Scripture about the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him.

Apparently, some believing brethren have need of a wake-up call at Christ's coming, just like the unbelieving Jews will have. With both groups, they need to truly understand the difference between their listening to men vs. listening to God in His Word.

Luke 18:7-8
7 And shall not God avenge His Own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
KJV

I believe our number who will be waiting on Christ's future coming at the end of the coming tribulation will be very few in number. The majority of the world will instead fall away to believe on the coming false-Messiah that is to appear first.

 

[GEN2REV]

Just as with the blindness God put upon the unbelieving Jews according to Apostle Paul, likewise many non-Jews have been blinded away from Scripture about the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him.

Apparently, some believing brethren have need of a wake-up call at Christ's coming, just like the unbelieving Jews will have. With both groups, they need to truly understand the difference between their listening to men vs. listening to God in His Word.

Do you believe that any race today is still pure after thousands of years of mixing with all races genetically?

Do you believe in spiritual Israel, spiritual Jews?

I believe our number who will be waiting on Christ's future coming at the end of the coming tribulation will be very few in number. The majority of the world will instead fall away to believe on the coming false-Messiah that is to appear first.

Agreed

 

[Davy]

Do you believe that any race today is still pure after thousands of years of mixing with all races genetically?

Do you believe in spiritual Israel, spiritual Jews?
Agreed

I believe God still 'deems' a remnant of the lost ten tribe Israelites as bloodline pure, since He told us through His prophets that He is going to gather the ten lost tribes back to the lands He promised their fathers. Now if they had truly mixed beyond recognition today, then I don't see the possibility of Him doing that. But I believe what He said in His Word. And afterall, Apostle Paul wasn't just pointing to Jews only by that remnant of Israel he mentioned in Romans 11. (The Jews Biblically refer only to the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi per Bible history, i.e., the southern "kingdom of Judah". The title of Jew is misused and abused today. The Jewish historian Josephus said that title was used by the remnant of Judah that returned to Jerusalem from the Babylon captivity. The ten northern tribes of Israel had been removed about 120 years prior to the Jews going into Babylon captivity. So they weren't even there when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem.)

Do I believe in the idea of a spiritual Israel also? Yes, definitely. Per adoption in Christ Jesus. Paul's idea in Ephesians 2 about the believing Gentiles coming nigh to the promises and covenants to Israel is what that's about. Paul called what they had come into as "the commonwealth of Israel". A commonwealth most often means a group of nations. That is what God's Israel represents today under Christ Jesus.

Yet His promises to the 'seed'... of Israel, i.e, those of blood birth of one of the 12 tribes, that is still on today, even for the unbelieving Jews born of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi, because like Paul showed in Romans 11 also, God will not go back on their election, as He will remove the blindness He put upon them when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's return).

 

[Enoch111]

How can the great multitude be gentiles when the bible says they are from every tribe people tongue and nation? Israel is a nation too

This comment shows a lack of familiarity with the matter. Israel is never shown as a part of the "nations". "Nations" means Gentile nations. And Israel was a theocracy.

Getting back to the title, there should have never been any doubt that the 144,000 are indeed 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. It is plainly shown in the Bible. They are distinct from all the others in Heaven who are without number.

 

[GEN2REV]

I believe our number who will be waiting on Christ's future coming at the end of the coming tribulation will be very few in number. The majority of the world will instead fall away to believe on the coming false-Messiah that is to appear first.

... His promises to the 'seed'... of Israel, i.e, those of blood birth of one of the 12 tribes, that is still on today, even for the unbelieving Jews born of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi, because like Paul showed in Romans 11 also, God will not go back on their election, as He will remove the blindness He put upon them when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's return).

So, ... just to be clear ..., do you believe then that there may be genetic 'seed' of Israel (Jews) alive unto the end, who may live in grievous sin all their life - and fall away to worship the beast, who will at the last moment be allowed to see the Truth of God Almighty and be taken to Heaven - despite all the wickedness they have done?

 

[Davy]

This comment shows a lack of familiarity with the matter. Israel is never shown as a part of the "nations". "Nations" means Gentile nations. And Israel was a theocracy.

Getting back to the title, there should have never been any doubt that the 144,000 are indeed 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. It is plainly shown in the Bible. They are distinct from all the others in Heaven who are without number.

You need to look at Scripture again... and be careful of listening to men's traditions...

Gen 35:10-11
10 And God said unto him, "Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel."

11 And God said unto him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
KJV


All the pumping up by the false Jews that only Jews are God's chosen people today is all for nought, because the ten northern tribes of Israel, which made up the majority of Israelites, were not known as Jews.


From Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Section 5, 7.

“You know, O Jews, that God hath kept our fathers Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in mind continually; and for the sake of their righteousness hath not left off the care of you. Indeed he hath assisted me in gaining this authority of the King to raise up our wall, and finish what is wanting of the temple. I desire you therefore, who well know the ill will our neighbouring nations bear to us, and that when once they once are made sensible that we are in earnest about building, they will come upon us, and contrive many ways of obstructing our works, that you will, in the first place, put your trust in God; as in him that will assist us against their hatred, and to intermit building neither night nor day; but to use all diligence, and to hasten on the work, now we have this especial opportunity for it.” When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities; as every ones ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. So the Jews prepared for the work. That is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon; which is taken from the tribe of Judah,. which came first to these places, and thence both they and the countrey gained that appellation."

The ten northern tribes of Israel didn't go into that 70 years Babylon captivity. Why? Because the ten tribes had already been removed from the northern lands of Israel by the kings of Assyria, about a hundred and twenty years prior to the Jews going into their Babylon captivity. This is Bible history 101, but few heed it.

The Jewish historian Josephus said in his day (100 A.D.), the ten tribes were still scattered beyond Euphrates, and were a great people, too many to count. So at least in 100 A.D. still, the Jews knew where the ten tribes were. But not anymore. Yet God knows, because He promised to return them back to the land along with Judah.

So I really get tired of this Jews only false doctrine.

Not only that, but the Genesis 48 prophecy to Ephraim's SEED, was that they would become "a multitude of nations"!!! And Jacob said to let his name be named upon the two lads, Joseph's sons.