Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

[reformed1689]

Why do some people think that everyone goes to Heaven in the end?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why do some people think that everyone goes to Heaven in the end?

Happy thoughts... combined with little knowledge of scripture.

 

[Willie T]

Well, I don't think everyone will, but I also believe that I haven't been given permission to write anyone off... ever. So, that kind of means that I am to look at everyone as potential "neighbor", doesn't it?

 

[reformed1689]

Well, I don't think everyone will, but I also believe that I haven't been given permission to write anyone off... ever. So, that kind of means that I am to look at everyone as potential "neighbor", doesn't it?

Only if you mean by potential neighbor that we should evangelize everyone.

 

[Giuliano]

I would like to believe, myself, that if I can love someone God surely loves that person more. God is surely more merciful and loving than I am. I wouldn't want anyone damned eternally in hellfire. I also think it would be hard to love God very much if He had plans to fry people eternally.

Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Chronicles 16:34 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

 

[reformed1689]

I would like to believe, myself, that if I can love someone God surely loves that person more. God is surely more merciful and loving than I am. I wouldn't want anyone damned eternally in hellfire. I also think it would be hard to love God very much if He had plans to fry people eternally.

Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Chronicles 16:34 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

First, these two verses are taken out of context.
Second, your viewpoint totally ignores the holiness and justice of God.
Third, it ignores that it says those whose names were not found were cast into the Lake of Fire.
Fourth, it ignores the fact that Jesus said there will be some that say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus will say "Depart from me, I never knew you."

 

[Ezra]

Well, I don't think everyone will, but I also believe that I haven't been given permission to write anyone off... ever. So, that kind of means that I am to look at everyone as potential "neighbor", doesn't it?

we dont have that authority to say who will and who want.. i do believe everyone has the chance to be saved and go to heaven ..but not everyone will

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why do some people think that everyone goes to Heaven in the end?

guessing I’m “universalism” then? Is that ugly? giving why then and feel free to shoot it down. Unto us a child is born. Saying we’ve been born again from above, a child of God. Children of God are given. Doesn’t cease at a child but the body of Christ is formed. Paul (inspired by the Holy Spirit) said until Christ be formed in you. Saviour of the world...the full measure of a perfect man. Ephesians 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

More whys: the blessing overcomes the curse. Obedience overcomes disobedience. Good overcomes evil. Life overcomes death and the grave. His children are instructed to sow mercy, peace, and forgiveness and the word say Israel blooms and fills the earth with fruits of righteousness which is Christ. ...that New City Jerusalem told is above where God says every good and perfect gift comes down from. James 1:17-18
[17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. [18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Another why: for the glory to be revealed in His children “through blessing they will be blessed.” Blessing overcomes the curse. (Joel 2:25-27)
And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. [27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Is that all hogwash?

 

[Giuliano]

First, these two verses are taken out of context.

You say. We'll see how good an expert you are at getting context right. I've noticed that some people use this "context" thing when they lack much of anything else to say.

Second, your viewpoint totally ignores the holiness and justice of God.

And you are an expert on that subject, I am sure. You can read God's mind perfectly.

God's holiness does not depend on torturing people eternally.

Third, it ignores that it says those whose names were not found were cast into the Lake of Fire.

And you ignore that later the people who were cast into the Lake of Fire are shown outside the Holy City. Odds are too that you cannot explain why "hell" is also thrown into the Lake of Fire. Talk about neglecting context.

Fourth, it ignores the fact that Jesus said there will be some that say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus will say "Depart from me, I never knew you."

That means they lack a relationship with him. It does not mean they're going to fry in hell eternally.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You say. We'll see how good an expert you are at getting context right. I've noticed that some people use this "context" thing when they lack much of anything else to say.
And you are an expert on that subject, I am sure. You can read God's mind perfectly. God's holiness does not depend on torturing people eternally.
And you ignore that later the people who were cast into the Lake of Fire are shown outside the Holy City. Odds are too that you cannot explain why "hell" is also thrown into the Lake of Fire. Talk about neglecting context.
That means they lack a relationship with him. It does not mean they're going to fry in hell eternally.

Perfect love (Christ) cast out torment. (1 Corinthians 15:54-55)...Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 John 4:17-21 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. [18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. [19] We love him, because he first loved us. [20] If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? [21] And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 2:5-6
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

...even as he walked.

 

[Giuliano]

Perfect love (Christ) cast out torment. (1 Corinthians 15:54-55)...Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 John 4:17-21 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. [18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. [19] We love him, because he first loved us. [20] If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? [21] And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 2:5-6
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

...even as he walked.

It is hard to underestimate the importance of loving our neighbors or brothers. God can use the love of one person to influence the fate of many. Remember how God said He was doing favors for Israel, not because they deserved it but because of Abraham? Even now, all Israel has not yet been saved, but they will be.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is hard to underestimate the importance of loving our neighbors or brothers. God can use the love of one person to influence the fate of many. Remember how God said He was doing favors for Israel, not because they deserved it but because of Abraham? Even now, all Israel has not yet been saved, but they will be.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

for me it is Daniel 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

just not prepared to announce God is not able to abase those that walk in pride...even if the overwhelming evidence seems to say otherwise. God said He is a God of the impossible. even Paul spoke of knowing how to be abased, and how to abound. Philippians 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

 

[ScottA]

I would like to believe, myself, that if I can love someone God surely loves that person more. God is surely more merciful and loving than I am. I wouldn't want anyone damned eternally in hellfire. I also think it would be hard to love God very much if He had plans to fry people eternally.

Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Chronicles 16:34 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

I am sure that is at the heart of all who believe in universal salvation for all. Except...that is not what we are in the middle of.

We are not born into a world and race of perfect people, not even. That is not what is written. What is written, is that we are merely "created in the image of God." I could go on to say that we are now a fallen race...but that would mean rushing right past a very important part of our factual reality: We were not even created permanent, not infinite, but finite...not perfect by God's standards, but imperfect, not even born of God, but created. And when it says "created", it describes something very much less than God, but rather more of an image spoken into some alternate reality, made out of nothing, a void.

But here we are millennia later, and even science can tell us that time is an illusion and matter is not actually matter, but energy...and we who call ourselves "believers", don't actually believe what the word of God says--but instead, want to believe that we were born, not out of nothing, not a mere image, but something eternal.

Well...that is not what it says.

If we weren't so emotionally attached to our warm and fuzzy flesh, we would realize that the need to be born again, is confirmation of the fact that we were not actually born in the way that we want to believe, but are (like it says) more of an "image" out of nothing. Which means God did not create a bunch of real people only to destroy a bunch of them--it means He kind of sketched us out in a way that means that some will make it to His gallery, and some won't.

 

[Giuliano]

I am sure that is at the heart of all who believe in universal salvation for all. Except...that is not what we are in the middle of.

We are not born into a world and race of perfect people, not even. That is not what is written. What is written, is that we are merely "created in the image of God." I could go on to say that we are now a fallen race...but that would mean rushing right past a very important part of our factual reality: We were not even created permanent, not infinite, but finite...not perfect by God's standards, but imperfect, not even born of God, but created. And when it says "created", it describes something very much less than God, but rather more of an image spoken into some alternate reality, made out of nothing, a void.

I would not dare impute defects in any of God's creation.

But here we are millennia later, and even science can tell us that time is an illusion and matter is not actually matter, but energy...and we who call ourselves "believers", don't actually believe what the word of God says--but instead, want to believe that we were born, not out of nothing, not a mere image, but something eternal.

Well...that is not what it says.

If we weren't so emotionally attached to our warm and fuzzy flesh, we would realize that the need to be born again, is confirmation of the fact that we were not actually born in the way that we want to believe, but are (like it says) more of an "image" out of nothing. Which means God did not create a bunch of real people only to destroy a bunch of them--it means He kind of sketched us out in a way that means that some will make it to His gallery, and some won't.

I would say the "flesh" of this world is part of a temporary illusion. The "image and likeness of God" is next to indestructible. The question we face is if we can see through the illusions of this world while we are still in it.

 

[Giuliano]

for me it is Daniel 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

just not prepared to announce God is not able to abase those that walk in pride...even if the overwhelming evidence seems to say otherwise. God said He is a God of the impossible. even Paul spoke of knowing how to be abased, and how to abound. Philippians 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

I think the thing about pride is that it's unrealistic. It's a pretense. Eventually it has to take a fall. Then maybe people can become realistic.

 

[Willie T]

Only if you mean by potential neighbor that we should evangelize everyone.

That's not exactly what I mean. When are we to cease "evangelizing" a particular person? (Thereby — in effect — making our own personal decision that as far as it concerns us, we did our righteous duty as commanded, and now they can go on to Hell.
Some people seem to feel that if they got out their bullhorn, and yelled at someone taking their child Trick or Treating, that they are going to Hell.... then that was "evangelizing."

 

[reformed1689]

When are we to cease "evangelizing" a particular person?

When they die.

 

[reformed1689]

When they die.

@Willie T was this not the Calvinist answer you were expecting? LOL

 

[Willie T]

I do have to say that I have found myself doing some thinking on God not willing any to perish.

And I have also wondered if, as many people claim, Revelation is showing us the future..... Then why are the trees planted for "The Gentiles/Nations", and the river flowing out of the Holy City for them, when supposedly Christ and His army had long-ago, slaughtered all the unbelievers.

 

[reformed1689]

I do have to say that I have found myself doing some thinking on God not willing any to perish.

This is not talking about all people, this is talking about the elect if you look at it in context.