Unscrambling : The Elect

[Behold]

Lots of confusion about the elect and the predestined elect, and on and on... Its just such a bag of twisted wires lost in space somewhere.

The reason it sounds like a Rubik's cube is because of the way the scriptures are worded.....it just twists the idea, totally.

Its really simple tho... but it sounds complex because of the terminology.. But its not complex.

So, When trying to understand what it means to be "elect" or those who are "predestined" to be "conformed into the image of Christ.... is just a few questions needing to be addressed.

How does "elect" happen?....What is the START, what is the part that gets the ball rolling, and what is the end result?

-----------------

So let me give you a simple analogy. Let say you are at the Fair. And you want to ride the Roller Coster. So, you have a Ticket. And what does that ticket get you? What is the end result of that Ticket. = You get to RIDE.

So, lets insert this simple idea into. 'predestined elect".........

The RIDE, is what you are predestined to do, or to become.

The Elect is the person who is going to ride....what is predetermined to be a RIDE.

The Ticket is your FAITH that elects you to RIDE.
---------------

So, lets look at it.

You are ELECTED by FAITH.

So what is the process ?

We are predestined,..this means that there is an end result that is to be finished in the FUTURE.....that occurs through Salvation... which is...to be fully conformed into the image of Christ, ....that God foreknew would happen, because He knew before all are born who would by faith be elected by their faith.. To be fully conformed into the image of Christ is what the "predestination" DOES.

How does that all sound if you simplify it? It means that there is an end result to being born again.....And the end result has a name...."predestined".... And what is that as an end result? We, the born again are conformed into the image of Christ. We the ELECT, elected by FAITH. are Predetermined by God to reach a final conforming that starts by the FATH that elects us to be conformed.

God does not elect...>He forgives. Faith Elects. God does not predestine you to be forgiven, but he.... according to foreknowledge, knows before we are born, who will be saved .

Salvation is a forgiveness and conforming GIFT. It exists as a 2000 yr old LIVING Redemption that begins and completes its purpose after the Blood Atonement is applied as a Gift = "Grace through Faith"... and this is how it ITSELF predestines you to be completed as fully conformed into the Image of Christ.

Faith ELECTS you to be conformed into the image of Christ, as that is what Salvation is predestined to do for everyone who is elected by FAITH.

Faith allows you to have access to the blood atonement that sets in motion what is pre-destined to occur to all who are born again, which is the conforming of us into the image of Christ.

Salvation sets into motion for each born again person.... something that is "predestined" to occur once you are born again.....and that is , to be conformed into the Image of Christ. And God foreknew this will happen to all who are born again, as its only the born again who are conformed.

Where the confusion comes in is when a bad theology teaches that.: God Knowing a thing before it happens is the same as God causing it to happen., which is to teach that "foreknowing, is = to cause".

God does not cause you to be elected, Yet He absolutely knows ALL who will be Elected by FAITH, before you are born.

 

[bbyrd009]

The reason it sounds like a Rubik's cube is because of the way the scriptures are worded.....it just twists the idea, totally.

i finally started thinking that that was intentional, to illustrate a point
dunno though

 

[DPMartin]

na, predestination and "elect" are muddied by those who think they chose, and certainly not by the scriptures.

the elect are called then chosen (many are called few are chosen) then become faithful.

the scriptures show that God choses His elect and that is all. Noah was chosen Abraham was chosen both were called and both were faithful. and we are talking about the Lord God of Noah, and the Lord God of Abraham.

the Grace Noah found is the same to all the sons of Noah, the Faith of the man of Faith Abraham is the same Faith all who were sons of Jacob and the believers in Christ. if you are born again your faith is the same faith that Abraham has in the Lord God of Abraham.

it should be noted that Noah was ten Generations from Adam, and Abraham was ten generations from Noah. these were chosen from the beginning of:

Gen 3:15　 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.　

the beginning of the restoration unto the Lord God what was lost. people like Abel the first man to experience death, and Enoch were included.

the tracking of 14 generations in Mat. and Luke should tell you that the chosen are chosen. and we are talking about the God of these people.

now if you want a god of your own choosing, have at it, but the Lord God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob chooses who He will spend eternity with.

 

[Malihah]

An Elect man or woman in Christ is someone that is truly born-again and has the power of the Holy Spirit. These people have the gifts of the Holy Spirit and can perform real miracles like Christ and the Apostles. Anyone can say they are Elect but only those who demonstrate their Election with real power and real miracles are taken seriously. This is why the Catholic church demands miracles as proof that someone is a Saint or Elect person. The vast majority of Christians in the pews are non-elect. Now this doesn't mean they will be lost it just means there is class structure in the Church and the Elect ones are given the best gifts Christ has to offer. Also it is important to remember that Satan can give power to his people so they can perform miracles as well. Levitation, Healing, Strength, Language, Resurrection, Teleportation are just a few of the gifts that the Elect possess.

 

[Helen]

@DPMartin Amen, good word.

 

[101G]

Matthew 21:28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard."
Matthew 21:29 "He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went."
Matthew 21:30 "And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not."
Matthew 21:31 "Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

well I guess God predestination some to be a Harlot, or a tax collector, even one party to muder, (Paul, then name Saul, to Stephen by laying down his coat in consent to his death by stoning), all this just to be saved, by, "election?" as the saying goes, "Ah, that ain't right".........

it's those who answer his call. Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

whosoever don't sound like any predestination to me, it sound like it's more OPEN to anyone who answer his call. because they, (whosoever), "HEARD" his call. and how shall they hear? Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

but that's all I'll say.

PICJAG.

 

[Behold]

na, predestination and "elect" are muddied by those who think they chose, and certainly not by the scriptures.

the elect are called then chosen (many are called few are chosen) then become faithful.

If Free Will Exists, then the topic suddenly ends.

Now lets look at your pretext....>"elect are then called, but few are chosen"..
Compare it to this..... "For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous""

Notice how Romans 5 says.....Many were made......yet, its speaking of ALL.

So, when we read many are called, this means, that the entire world is given the opportunity to receive Christ.
But, few, as compared to the entire offer, will come to the Cross. And once they do, then they are "chosen= God accepts their Faith.
Faith Elects = God Saves.
Salvation is "Grace thru faith".
"for as many as Received Christ..."the few", God gave them...the power to becomes the Sons of God". = The born again.
The born again, are the "few" that are Faith Chosen, and the unbelievers are the many that are called who do not respond to the Cross.

 

[Behold]

An Elect man or woman in Christ is someone that is truly born-again and has the power of the Holy Spirit. These people have the gifts of the Holy Spirit and can perform real miracles like Christ and the Apostles.

Nice mythology.
IF you have a bible, turn to "Acts". Now notice this...>"The ACTS of the APOSTLES".....>Now go read it, and watch all the Apostles with "signs following".
2nd Corinthians 12:12. "Signs of an APOSTLE".
It does not say, signs of a believer. And it does not say signs of the elect.

"but i was taught"......."wait, thats not what my priest, bishop, minister, pope", said.

= Does that matter?

 

[Behold]

it's those who answer his call. Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

whosoever don't sound like any predestination to me, it sound like it's more OPEN to anyone who answer his call.PICJAG.

Yes, very true.

The end result of being born again, is that you are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ.
There is your predestination....You'll be conformened into Him.
Your Faith is what was accepted by God that determines your end result.
Faith Elects.
God Saves.

 

[Helen]

whosoever don't sound like any predestination to me, it sound like it's more OPEN to anyone who answer his call. because they, (whosoever), "HEARD" his call. and how shall they hear? Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

but that's all I'll say.

PICJAG.

AGREE
We "Chose to be chosen" by our actions in response to God ...just as Joshua and Caleb followed hard after God and trusted His word in ref to the Promised Land...the other spies, although they too were "Children of Israel and God"...fell because of unbelief ... The Elect are responders...as I read the book...

 

[Behold]

AGREE
We "Chose to be chosen" by our actions in response to God ...just as Joshua and Caleb followed hard after God and trusted His word in ref to the Promised Land...the other spies, although they too were "Children of Israel and God"...fell because of unbelief ... The Elect are responders...as I read the book...

God Calls.
Faith elects.
Faith Elects
God' saves.
If you give God your faith in Christ, He then will give you "the gift of Righteousness".. "The Gift of Salvation".
If you have those, then you are elected.
Welcome to being born again.

 

[Malihah]

Nice mythology.
IF you have a bible, turn to "Acts". Now notice this...>"The ACTS of the APOSTLES".....>Now go read it, and watch all the Apostles with "signs following".
2nd Corinthians 12:12. "Signs of an APOSTLE".
It does not say, signs of a believer. And it does not say signs of the elect.

"but i was taught"......."wait, thats not what my priest, bishop, minister, pope", said.

= Does that matter?

The Apostles referred to themselves as Elect and other non-apostles as Elect as well.......durrrr

(Tit 1:1)(1 Pe 1:1)(2 Jn 1)(2 Jn 13)

 

[Malihah]

God Calls.
Faith elects.
Faith Elects
God' saves.
If you give God your faith in Christ, He then will give you "the gift of Righteousness".. "The Gift of Salvation".
If you have those, then you are elected.
Welcome to being born again.

Born-again Christians go through the worst trials and tribulations that God can give and 99% don't make it.

I doubt seriously that's you

 

[Nancy]

Lots of confusion about the elect and the predestined elect, and on and on... Its just such a bag of twisted wires lost in space somewhere.

The reason it sounds like a Rubik's cube is because of the way the scriptures are worded.....it just twists the idea, totally.

Its really simple tho... but it sounds complex because of the terminology.. But its not complex.

So, When trying to understand what it means to be "elect" or those who are "predestined" to be "conformed into the image of Christ.... is just a few questions needing to be addressed.

How does "elect" happen?....What is the START, what is the part that gets the ball rolling, and what is the end result?

-----------------

So let me give you a simple analogy. Let say you are at the Fair. And you want to ride the Roller Coster. So, you have a Ticket. And what does that ticket get you? What is the end result of that Ticket. = You get to RIDE.

So, lets insert this simple idea into. 'predestined elect".........

The RIDE, is what you are predestined to do, or to become.

The Elect is the person who is going to ride....what is predetermined to be a RIDE.

The Ticket is your FAITH that elects you to RIDE.
---------------

So, lets look at it.

You are ELECTED by FAITH.

So what is the process ?

We are predestined,..this means that there is an end result that is to be finished in the FUTURE.....that occurs through Salvation... which is...to be fully conformed into the image of Christ, ....that God foreknew would happen, because He knew before all are born who would by faith be elected by their faith.. To be fully conformed into the image of Christ is what the "predestination" DOES.

How does that all sound if you simplify it? It means that there is an end result to being born again.....And the end result has a name...."predestined".... And what is that as an end result? We, the born again are conformed into the image of Christ. We the ELECT, elected by FAITH. are Predetermined by God to reach a final conforming that starts by the FATH that elects us to be conformed.

God does not elect...>He forgives. Faith Elects. God does not predestine you to be forgiven, but he.... according to foreknowledge, knows before we are born, who will be saved .

Salvation is a forgiveness and conforming GIFT. It exists as a 2000 yr old LIVING Redemption that begins and completes its purpose after the Blood Atonement is applied as a Gift = "Grace through Faith"... and this is how it ITSELF predestines you to be completed as fully conformed into the Image of Christ.

Faith ELECTS you to be conformed into the image of Christ, as that is what Salvation is predestined to do for everyone who is elected by FAITH.

Faith allows you to have access to the blood atonement that sets in motion what is pre-destined to occur to all who are born again, which is the conforming of us into the image of Christ.

Salvation sets into motion for each born again person.... something that is "predestined" to occur once you are born again.....and that is , to be conformed into the Image of Christ. And God foreknew this will happen to all who are born again, as its only the born again who are conformed.

Where the confusion comes in is when a bad theology teaches that.: God Knowing a thing before it happens is the same as God causing it to happen., which is to teach that "foreknowing, is = to cause".

God does not cause you to be elected, Yet He absolutely knows ALL who will be Elected by FAITH, before you are born.

Welcome here Behold, nice post!

 

[Behold]

The Apostles referred to themselves as Elect and other non-apostles as Elect as well.......durrrr

(Tit 1:1)(1 Pe 1:1)(2 Jn 1)(2 Jn 13)

Malihah.....They were born again.
Born Again, Apostles
Are you born again?
If so, you're the elect.
Just like me. Just like all the born again on this Forum.

 

[Behold]

Born-again Christians go through the worst trials and tribulations that God can give and 99% don't make it.

I doubt seriously that's you

Let me tell you about me....

Right now......Im "In Christ"....I'm the Righteousness of God in Christ. Im an "heir of God".. Im a "Joint heir with Christ"... Im a Son of God. Im as sinless as God's blood has made me, and that is to be as Righteous as God who hung on the Cross.
Im a Saint. Im the Bride of Christ. Im the Body of Christ. Im "accepted in the Beloved".
So, do you know who does not "doubt" that, Malihah ???? = God Himself, as He is the ONE who made me a "new Creation" in Christ.
Are you?
Right now I'm typing to you, yet ive been "translated from Darkness to Light"....And as Jesus is the Light of the World, im a "child of the Light".
God is not my Judge, He is my DADDY. Even this very second, "Malihah", im "seated in heavenly places, in Christ".
So, im all that., and more..

thx for asking,


<B><

 

[Behold]

Welcome here Behold, nice post!

Thank you for your warm welcome, Nancy.
I'm happy to be here,

Shalom,

-B

 

[Helen]

God Calls.
Faith elects.
Faith Elects
God' saves.
If you give God your faith in Christ, He then will give you "the gift of Righteousness " "The Gift of Salvation".
If you have those, then you are elected.
Welcome to
Not sure where you find us 'giving our faith to Christ'...its not something we can give. "Faith is the substance the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.."

Let me tell you about me....

Right now......Im "In Christ"....I'm the Righteousness of God in Christ. Im an "heir of God".. Im a "Joint heir with Christ"... Im a Son of God. Im as sinless as God's blood has made me, and that is to be as Righteous as God who hung on the Cross.
Im a Saint. Im the Bride of Christ. Im the Body of Christ. Im "accepted in the Beloved".
So, do you know who does not "doubt" that, Malihah ???? = God Himself, as He is the ONE who made me a "new Creation" in Christ.
Are you?
Right now I'm typing to you, yet ive been "translated from Darkness to Light"....And as Jesus is the Light of the World, im a "child of the Light".
God is not my Judge, He is my DADDY. Even this very second, "Malihah", im "seated in heavenly places, in Christ".
So, im all that., and more..

thx for asking,


<B><

You are obviously "Word of Faith" and that is true...Positionally true...but how we walk and how we live must be at the same measure as our position in Christ.

Some people believe as you have mention above, claiming what is true "in Christ"...yet to their families and when they are alone with their computers they are very different people indeed.

Our life and out position in Christ must balance together...we can't have one without the other. Grace comes with accountability.

 

[Hidden In Him]

An Elect man or woman in Christ is someone that is truly born-again and has the power of the Holy Spirit. These people have the gifts of the Holy Spirit and can perform real miracles like Christ and the Apostles. Anyone can say they are Elect but only those who demonstrate their Election with real power and real miracles are taken seriously. This is why the Catholic church demands miracles as proof that someone is a Saint or Elect person. The vast majority of Christians in the pews are non-elect. Now this doesn't mean they will be lost it just means there is class structure in the Church and the Elect ones are given the best gifts Christ has to offer. Also it is important to remember that Satan can give power to his people so they can perform miracles as well. Levitation, Healing, Strength, Language, Resurrection, Teleportation are just a few of the gifts that the Elect possess.

I would agree with most of this post. Your last line starts with levitation, however. Unless you were still talking about the gifts of Satan, I would classify that as more of a demonic gift. Teleportation through the Spirit, yes. Levitation, no.

Welcome to the Forum, btw!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Nice mythology.
IF you have a bible, turn to "Acts". Now notice this...>"The ACTS of the APOSTLES".....>Now go read it, and watch all the Apostles with "signs following".
2nd Corinthians 12:12. "Signs of an APOSTLE".
It does not say, signs of a believer. And it does not say signs of the elect.

"but i was taught"......."wait, thats not what my priest, bishop, minister, pope", said.

= Does that matter?

Greetings, Behold, and if I didn't do so before, welcome to the Forum. Great to have you!

I actually agree with Malihah on this. The Greek word for "elect" is εκλεκτός, which is used in Acts 9:15 of the apostle Paul. The apostles were among those specifically chosen by God for greater works, and bore greater responsibilities before the Lord.

8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. 10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!” “Yes, Lord,” he answered. 11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.” 13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen vessel (Πορεύου, ὅτι σκεῦος ἐκλογῆς ἐστίν μοι οὗτος) to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” (Acts 9:8-16)