Unto Good Works is With Works Now, Not Later

[robert derrick]

The issue comes when our motivation to do works is to sanctify OURSELVES. Toe keep OURSELVES saved. or to somehow make it so we can not lose salvation (NOSAS)

We can scream at the top of our lungs we are doing it because we love God and our motivation is him. But we not only lying to those we scream it to. We are lying to ourselves. Because while we scream they are not self righteous works. That is exacly what they are

The works paul spoke of are those works those who were saved by Grace alone are created (empowered) to do. Works are an outpouring of Love, We love because God loves us first. Not because we have some innate power to do anything.

Paul said not of works, lest anyone should boast. Yet what do people who attack OSAS continue day after day to do. BOAST! Boast of how righteous they are. Boast of how much more they love God because of what they do. Boast of how they are not like the OSAS sinner. and praising God they are not like them.

Your words are of your own reasoning, and so eventually you contradict Scripture, and so with your own words condemn yourself:

Not because we have some innate power to do anything.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If unto good works is any time difference, and so separate and apart from believing, so that there is faith standing alone without doing anything with it now, then so does unto salvation have time difference, separate and apart from believing: faith alone cannot stand alone to be saved now, while good works only follow 'in due time', which of course also includes still sinning in the flesh.

Well a brand new babe in christ needs to learn what are good works! It seems only you were blessed with a full knowledge of good works to be performed at teh moment of salvation. the rest of the saints we grow and learn under the loving hand of a Patient God.

 

[robert derrick]

But would God consider this purifying as a work of ours to be rewarded? Or is this more like a minimum expectation?

Purifying is a lifelong process via Romans 12. We get purified when the word of God takes root in our hearts and we unlearn the old ways and replace them with the Godly ways.

This is called the 'process' of progressive self-sanctification by the power of our own will, according to our own 'progress' of faith.

Scripture calls it a form of godliness of our own making.

No doubt they 'unlearn' adultery today, and even stealing tomorrow, and maybe even not lying in the future, but they certainly never unlearn sinning and transgressing the law of Christ.

OSAS doesn't teach against being saved by good works. They teach against being saved with good works, so that they can teach having been saved without ever being good in works at all times.

There's always those sinful works they never quite seem to 'unlearn'.

 

[robert derrick]

Well a brand new babe in christ needs to learn what are good works! It seems only you were blessed with a full knowledge of good works to be performed at teh moment of salvation. the rest of the saints we grow and learn under the loving hand of a Patient God.

You see, this is the problem. First, you are not addressing the main point made about unto good works and unto salvation: you want salvation now, not unto, but good works unto, not now.

Your mind is not disciplined in the Scriptures. You are not a disciple of the written word of Jesus Christ.

What you have is what you have learned to have in order to justify your way of living for God: your brand of Christianity. Which is basically learning to do better and sinning less. You reject becoming good inwardly and outwardly now. You exemplify learning your own form of godliness, while denying the power thereof, both to yourself and all others.

You don't want to believe the truth of Scripture with power to become sons of God and saints in Christ Jesus, today, because you don't want to, today. It's just that simple.

And so, you in talk in your own learned terms, that are only a gray shade of Scripture.

You practice and teach a reformed life of 'good' sinners, that always try to do good, while still doing evil. Always wanting to do right, while still sinning.

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

We are to learn to do well, not learn what is doing well. The whole power of being born again and partaking of the divine nature is to learn to now do the good and refuse the evil: we learn what doing so with a pure conscience by faith is like. Ever learning knowledge is only to wonder what it is like.

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

How does anyone, especially a born again babe in Christ, who can be above 50 years of age, 'learn' that it is good to help a neighbor and not to cuckold his wife? When do we 'learn' that that stealing and lying is not good?

You speak of learning 'what' is good, and not learning to 'do' good: you choose a learning 'process' for yourself, rather than simply learning to do it. You want to learn more knowledge, not learn righteousness by doing it: you want to learn to be counted as righteous by knowledge, without doing it and so being righteous as He is.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Your learning 'process' is the power curve of man's righteousness according to his own will and faith: ever learning to do more good, while still ever unlearning to do less sin.

You have learned by shades of Scripture to never just learn to do good today and not sin. You put that off to the resurrection, which is only for them that have learned to do good and not evil, and so are doing it, not just still learning ever more about it, but never just doing it.

You shade the true light of Scripture and fellowship with the saints in light from your eyes, with the hands you mishandle the word of God with, that you may never learn to just do righteousness and refuse to sin in this life today.

Why? Because you don't believe it is possible? No. But only because you don't want to. You have yet to receive Him as He is in the light, and have chosen instead a faith that is a mere human form of the faith of Jesus in Scripture.

Your practice of learning and unlearning is the form of godliness by knowledge only, not learning to do godliness and be godly by power of God.

We are not saved and doing good and refusing to sin by learning knowledge, but by learning that He is powerful within us to live like Him today.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Why don't you simply try doing this, instead of ever learning to talk around it: try by the faith of God to do as the Scripture commands and put away all thought of sinning and unrighteousness from your mind now, not later:

Purify your heart and clear you mind of all thoughts for sin and keep it that way today: fight the good fight of faith that begins within.

Learn something true and real about the power of God: You don't have to take the devil's thought for sin today, nor do you have to worry about doing so tomorrow.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Until you do this and practice it by faith within, as a matter of obedience in the fear of the Lord, not to fail Him in your own heart and mind, then you will never know the blessed true peace of them whose mind is stayed on Him. But until you take Scripture literally as commandment to obey, and not only an ideal to think about and perhaps learn about tomorrow, then you will never ever learn how easy it is to do good today from a pure heart and so not sin against God in the flesh.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Go on and try it. It works every time it's tried in Christ Jesus. After all, you've plainly tried everything else, and yet you still confess what a sinner you are today.

I promise you, even as it is with me, so shall it be with you: the first moment you agree with God and chaoose to chase away all the old thoughts for sin and unrighteousness, and to have and keep a clear and pure mind in Christ: the devil will throw all he has at you, but God Himself will be right there with you to do so, and blessed peace of heart and rest of soul will be yours at that time, not sometime later.

Salvation of God is power of God to becomes sons of God, even as He is Son of God: as we believe and obey Him, we recieve Him and His power to us.

It's a partnership of power by grace through faith, bought for us by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[dev553344]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are created new in Christ Jesus to do good works now, to walk in His steps now, not later down the road of still sinning.

The lie of OSAS is all about being saved by faith alone first, before and apart from doing good works: salvation by faith alone without good works at first, as though there is temporal time between believing and obeying God.

I.e. salvation is now, and unto good works is in the future.

This is of course false, since obeying God first begins withing the heart, when first believing God to wash within the cup, that the outside by be clean, not unto cleaning.

Nevertheless, to be consistent:

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We first believe with the heart, before and apart from doing righteousness: we believe unto righteousness.

Therefore, we first confess with the mouth, before and apart from being saved: we confess unto salvation.

OSAS will agree with the first vehemently, and disagree with the second just as vehemently, because the first appears to justify them without works at first, while the second therefore does not save them by faith alone at first.

According to OSAS teaching of unto, believing and confessing saves no man, because even as good works and doing righteousness only comes later, so must salvation.

That is if we're being consistent in reading Scripture. Good luck that with OSAS.

And so we conclude Scripture is true: no man is saved by dead faith alone, and is only justified by works of God's righteousness, which we do within the heart first, that we may be doing His righteousness at all times in the flesh.

With the heart we believe to do righteousness, and with confession of the mouth we are being saved.

Believing and doing with God is one and the same:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The faith of Jesus is both the substance and the evidence of the unseen God.

Can you repent without good works? Matthew 3:8-10

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You see, this is the problem. First, you are not addressing the main point made about unto good works and unto salvation: you want salvation now, not unto, but good works unto, not now.

Your mind is not disciplined in the Scriptures. You are not a disciple of the written word of Jesus Christ.

And your mind is not endued with any integrity!

You love throwing implied things that people are not saved! You are not my Savior, Jesus is! I have salvation now as Gods Word says and I do good works now as Gods Word commands!

You are just a legalistic, judgmental blowhard! I am glad you are not Jesus- no one would make it with your false gospel! I am through with you!

I fear for your soul- you are the poster child for Galatians 1: 6-9

 

[quietthinker]

Exactly. However, I don't believe you are wrong at times, because of your womanly long hair, though uncombed, but because you simply are twisting Scripture at times.

And while I have enjoyed your wit on the whole, it is at times used to cover a falsehood, and so it becomes jesting and tiresome.

I like your mature wit, when it's true. It's childish when not.

Its just not possible to please all the people all the time robert

 

[Robert Gwin]

The assignment is the calling is to obey the faith outwardly and become saints and sons of God walking after the Spirit.

Maturity in the faith is twofold: growing in knowledge of the Lord and His word, and so learning to have a pure conscience and zeal for the Lord according to knowledge.

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

That is for both Jew and Gentile as the Israel of God.

The law of Christ is written in our hearts and minds as we grow in the knowledge of Scripture to believe and do it: Scripture says God will write His law in our hearts through Christ, but Scripture does not say all at once as newborn babes in Christ.

The soul is made living, and the conscience is pure again as from the womb, and though with knowledge of having done evil and sin, but not with true understanding of what evil and good is to God. The mind must still be renewed by the Scriptures to know the difference between good and evil, as God says it is in Scripture.

We must know what God says sin is, not what man, nor ourselves, say sin is.

We become strong in the word, so that we are not seduced by the devil into false doctrine of Christ: we guard our hearts and pure conscience by doing His word only, and not be falling into the ditch of traditions, commandments, and rules of men falsely preached for the law of Christ.

I learn to do all things by faith with knowledge of Scripture written on my heart: I have learned not to obey the consciences and rules of men, who don't know what they are talking about according to Scripture:

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Simply put: true Christian growth and maturity is learning to have a pure conscience to do all things by faith with certain knowledge of the truth of God.

A mature adult Christian by knowledge of Scripture knows the difference between good and evil, which includes the difference between the conviction of the Spirit upon the conscience, and the guilt trips of men playing with the conscience:

Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

Babes without knowledge can have their consciences seductively swayed from the truth, and so can become sincere of conscience and sincerely bewitched in doctrine and law of Christ:

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The other side of the coin is babes with weak conscience that never grow up, but rather believe their own weak conscience is strength in righteousness and holy living, and so preach their own childish consciences for law of Christ:

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

A mature saint in Christ Jesus, being strong in His word, knows both how not to wound the weak conscience of sincere babes, while also not being dominated by the weak consciences of ungrown children, that think they are the really strong adults in the room.

We help one another's joy in the word of truth. We don't help ourselves to the sincere consciences of others to make proselytes of our own:

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

I guess I am going to just have to state it point blank Rob, our assignment is given us at Mat 28:19,20. We are to do that assignment, and when we complete it, Jehovah will send Jesus Mat 24:14. Few are Saints sir, and only they make up the Israel of God, but all Christians have the same assignment, but the responsibility rests upon the shoulders of the Saints.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your words are of your own reasoning, and so eventually you contradict Scripture, and so with your own words condemn yourself:

Not because we have some innate power to do anything.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

You just made my case for me

HE GAVE IS the POWER to BECOME SONS OF GOD.

It is not us getting power from within ourselves

 

[robert derrick]

Can you repent without good works? Matthew 3:8-10

Good point. It is impossible to repent without good works, because repenting is good work: doing good begins with not doing evil.

The error is thinking that salvation is a 'process' of doing more and more good, while sinning less and less, so that simply repenting from sinning never comes in this life.

The vain hope is that sinning only ends in the resurrection, which is when it's too late to repent.

And so, seeking to be saved and justified with God by faith alone is before and apart from repenting:

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repenting comes first, which begins with unrighteous thoughts:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Until we repent of thinking and doing evil, we cannot believe God to obey Him in all things from the heart, which begins with loving Him with all the heart.

It is impossible to love God with all the heart, when lust and unrighteous thoughts continue within the heart.

 

[robert derrick]

You love throwing implied things that people are not saved! You are not my Savior, Jesus is! I have salvation now as Gods Word says and I do good works now as Gods Word commands!

You are just a legalistic, judgmental blowhard! I am glad you are not Jesus- no one would make it with your false gospel! I am through with you!

I fear for your soul- you are the poster child for Galatians 1: 6-9

Childish ranting, rather than addressing the points made, prove your ungrounded lack of disciple in the Scriptures.

If there is faith alone that is only unto good works later, then there is confession with mouth alone that is only unto salvation later.

If the simple teaching is true, and it convicts you, then it is not me, but the doctrine of Christ that you reject:

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The truth therefore is that you know your OSAS is childish trash, but apparently you have invested too much time and effort in convincing yourself of it, as well as falsely teaching it to others, so that you cannot repent of it.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

I fear for your soul- you are the poster child for Galatians 1: 6-9

No you don't. As with all things about your faith and doctrine, it's lip service only.

Your soul is your own business, but what I do greatly fear for any little children you have poisoned at a young age to become twice as corrupted as yourself:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You will answer for it, and I would say except you repent, but by all you have said and remained so hardened in, I do not believe that is possible for you anymore.

 

[robert derrick]

I guess I am going to just have to state it point blank Rob, our assignment is given us at Mat 28:19,20. We are to do that assignment, and when we complete it, Jehovah will send Jesus Mat 24:14. Few are Saints sir, and only they make up the Israel of God, but all Christians have the same assignment, but the responsibility rests upon the shoulders of the Saints.

I am not called to full time ministry.

My assignment is the same to all men: repent, believe the gospel, purify and keep our hearts pure that are lives may be pure in Christ Jesus.

Yehovah didn't send Himself to become a man. The Father sent Him from heaven, and was then named Jesus forever.

 

[robert derrick]

You just made my case for me

HE GAVE IS the POWER to BECOME SONS OF GOD.

It is not us getting power from within ourselves

Nor do them that refuse His power to purify their hearts become sons of God, but rather conform themselves to their own image of His Son.

If there is faith alone that is only unto good works later, then there is confession with mouth alone that is only unto salvation later.

You're all about 'unto' down the road, when it comes to obeying God, and reject 'unto' down the road, when it comes to being saved.

You don't take all Scripture seriously as it is written.

Like your formed godliness of your own mind, you only have a shadow of obedience to His word.

 

[Behold]

Nor do them that refuse His power to purify their hearts become sons of God, but rather conform themselves to their own image of His Son.

You just wrote that purifying your own heart and conform YOURSELF into the image of Jesus, is how you go to heaven.

That's ridiculous.
You can't do any of that.
If you could, then Christ didnt have to die on the Cross.

What cult taught you that you do it all, and Christ does nothing?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nor do them that refuse His power to purify their hearts become sons of God, but rather conform themselves to their own image of His Son.

If there is faith alone that is only unto good works later, then there is confession with mouth alone that is only unto salvation later.

You're all about 'unto' down the road, when it comes to obeying God, and reject 'unto' down the road, when it comes to being saved.

You don't take all Scripture seriously as it is written.

Like your formed godliness of your own mind, you only have a shadow of obedience to His word.

1. This just proves you do not know me at all. I am all about he saved us By grace THROUGH faith. And us being his workmanship created unto good works.
2. Your into self. It is all about you. It is about YOUR POWER. YOUR WORK, YOUR OBEDIENCE.

I will fall on my face wen I see God. I pray you do also. But the way you talk. Sadly I fear you think yourself more righteous than you are.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Childish ranting, rather than addressing the points made, prove your ungrounded lack of disciple in the Scriptures.

If there is faith alone that is only unto good works later, then there is confession with mouth alone that is only unto salvation later.

If the simple teaching is true, and it convicts you, then it is not me, but the doctrine of Christ that you reject:

BLAHY<BLAH<BLAH<BLAH!

Your opinions do not convict me, they disgust me! as I said earlier you are the poster child of Galatians 1: 6-9

You and Ananias and Caiaphas can have a good ole time being your legalistic pharisaical selves

 

[Robert Gwin]

I am not called to full time ministry.

My assignment is the same to all men: repent, believe the gospel, purify and keep our hearts pure that are lives may be pure in Christ Jesus.

Yehovah didn't send Himself to become a man. The Father sent Him from heaven, and was then named Jesus forever.

The assignment is kind of interesting Rob, the responsibility rests on those who are in the covenant arrangement with Jesus. Yet that does not exclude the rest of Christians from it either. Jesus said of them: (Matthew 25:40) . . .In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

The assignment was to make disciples, and then those disciples would make disciples, etc until the gospel reached the ends of the earth Acts 1:8; Mat 24:14

Yes Jehovah did not become a man and come to earth, He sent His son Jn 3:16. Jesus will be known by that name forever no doubt, but we believe when he returned to heaven he resumed his name. Rev 12:7

 

[farouk]

I am all about he saved us By grace THROUGH faith. And us being his workmanship created unto good works.

@Eternally Grateful Amen, there!

Ephesians 2.8-10.

 

[robert derrick]

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil:

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith

I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

The only thing Jesus sees about His people are their works, not their faith.

He knows our faith by our works, whether we be dead or alive in Him.

Those having faith without works aren't even seen and acknowledged by Jesus: He doesn't even bother correcting them, because He only chastens and rebukes them having works, even if they are only lukewarm.

BLAHY<BLAH<BLAH<BLAH!

OSAS is for them that mouth about faith only, and are not even as honored by Jesus as the vomit of the lukewarm from His mouth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil:

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith

I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

The only thing Jesus sees about His people are their works, not their faith.

He knows our faith by our works, whether we be dead or alive in Him.

Those having faith without works aren't even seen and acknowledged by Jesus: He doesn't even bother correcting them, because He only chastens and rebukes them having works, even if they are only lukewarm.


OSAS is for them that mouth about faith only, and are not even as honored by Jesus as the vomit of the lukewarm from His mouth.

It is truly sad that your soul is drowning in bitterness and hatred. You need to learn the mercy and Grace of God before He crushes you.

You do not even know the gospel at all!