Up is down. Black is white. Grace precedes faith.

[Curtis]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

 

[Nancy]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

Loved the post bro,
I saved it to a note pad to re read later, and reply.

Cling to Thee Rock!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is the grace of salvation and surely faith precedes that grace. But there is also the grace of God opening up the ears of a person to hear the gospel in the first place.

 

[Nancy]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

One of the simplest ways I've heard it put this way and, I've nothing to add, great verses and plain common sense!

 

[Curtis]

There is the grace of salvation and surely faith precedes that grace. But there is also the grace of God opening up the ears of a person to hear the gospel in the first place.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God - there’s no such scripture saying that first the ears must be opened up by a different type of grace.

 

[Invisibilis]

There is the grace of salvation and surely faith precedes that grace. But there is also the grace of God opening up the ears of a person to hear the gospel in the first place.

It only takes an instant of letting go of self to hear what the ear hears (the truth). The ear only hears the truth, but it is the biased mind that interprets what the ear hears to something the self wants to hear. As soon as the self becomes unconditionally humble ("Be still . . . Psalm 46:10), does the Truth (God's grace), comes to the person's consciousness. It is the humble (an act of faith) that can discern the Truth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Faith comes by hearing the word of God - there’s no such scripture saying that first the ears must be opened up by a different type of grace.

Grace is grace. There is no different types of unmerited favor. What God's grace does in a person's life may be different, but they are all acts of God's grace.

Faith is included in all of God's callings to people of the world. All who are called know that what God is calling them to is true, because God is showing them it's true. It's just that most people reject that call, calling him a liar, preferring to stay in their sin. Most people will reject the faith that God gives to know that what he is calling them to is really true. Only a few will retain the faith God gives and receive salvation.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Faith comes by hearing the word of God - there’s no such scripture saying that first the ears must be opened up by a different type of grace.

“ NOBODY comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”

The initiative for Salvation belongs to God....

Read the story of “Lydia, the Seller Of Purple”......God “Opened Her Heart” to Receive the Gospel....

 

[Nancy]

“ NOBODY comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”

The initiative for Salvation belongs to God....

Read the story of “Lydia, the Seller Of Purple”......God “Opened Her Heart” to Receive the Gospel....

Hello BB,
Would God not open the hearts of anyone we pray for? Would He not send good Christians across the path's of those we pray this for? Still their decision (most important of ones life!)

My bible tells me that is NOT His will that ANY should perish. Jesus said...'if He be lifted up, He would draw ALL men unto Him. Still...our decision, IMHO
Maybe some Christian even prayed for Lydia's heart to be softened and mind to be open...or that she would be given the grace to receive the Truth. I will never stop thanking God that He is and has been, since the day I ever prayed for my loved ones and the lost...working in them. Still...ones decision..."Choose this day whom you will serve" Gods sovereignty stands, no matter what as, it's Him who works all things to the good to those who love Him. Yes, we will lose souls we love to this world. But then, He will wipe every tear from our eyes

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

God's grace means unmerited favor. I think of it as His love and blessings that fall on us. He is gracious, He gives gifts, He provides for us. Grace includes a wide spectrum of everything good that comes from God.
Faith is one of those gifts. So He gives us things because Hebia gracious.
Since faith is a gift, it is more of a substance, a possession, than a an action, like a response.
We respond to things according to how much faith we have. One has an act of faith. So I think it is wrong to say faith is a response, I don't think of it as a verb, it is a noun.

 

[Curtis]

“ NOBODY comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”

The initiative for Salvation belongs to God....

Read the story of “Lydia, the Seller Of Purple”......God “Opened Her Heart” to Receive the Gospel....

Jesus: if I be lifted up I WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME.

Newsflash: the Holy Spirit is resistible - thus there’s no irresistible grace.

Stephen preached to the elect Israelites (Isaiah 45:4) who Jesus came for (John 1:11) who He yearned would come to Him, but they WOULD NOT (Matthew 23:37) and told them that the reason they killed the prophets God sent, and even rejected and killed JESUS, their own Messiah when He came for them is because because they RESIST the Holy Spirit.


Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST THE HOLY GHOST : as your fathers did, so do ye.


Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered (Jesus).


The Holy Spirit, without which no man can say Jesus is Lord, is resistible, because of free will.

The elect Israelites resisted the Holy Spirit - thus falsifying Calvinism.


Faith comes by hearing Gods word Romans 10:17, not by first being regenerated, and grace is resistible because the Holy Spirit is resistible.


Salvation is not guaranteed from having faith, man has freewill to receive Jesus John. 1:12, or resist the drawing by the HS and reject Jesus, as the elect Israelis did, when Jesus came for His OWN John 1:11.


There is NO irresistible grace or unconditional Election.


Israel, Gods elect, resisted the Holy Spirit and rejected Jesus, their savior.


As Jesus said to them:


Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 5:40 And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.


And Peter destroys Calvinist election dogma, when he says we must MAKE our calling and ELECTION sure, by ADDING to our faith the FRUIT of virtue, Godliness, and love (charity), and he says that IF WE DO that, we won’t FALL, and we will have an entrance into heaven.


That our election isn’t SURE until we MAKE it sure, by adding fruit to our faith, and will fall if we don’t make it sure, is fatal to reformed election doctrine aka Calvinism.


2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto youabundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Truman]

With me, I heard John 3:16 and God put the knowledge that it was true into my heart. At the time, I didn't even know what it meant.
I think God's word is beyond our ability to fully comprehend. At some point we should let go of our reason and just accept it by faith, even if we don't grasp all the nuances of it. It would also avoid the division and nastiness caused by hairsplitting.
I'm listening to "Kevin Prosch Wrshp 11 15 96" on You Tube as I'm writing this. The anointing is very nice. This is what the people of Israel felt long ago.

 

[Tong2020]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourself; it is the gift of God.

Salvation is grace. Salvation is by grace.

Salvation is God’s work. God is the Savior and is the One who works this out in and on the person whom He saves. As to how God works out and accomplishes His salvation, is told us in scriptures. It is clear to me, God does it through faith. Not through faith that comes from man, but through faith that comes from Him.

Tong
R3890

 

[Curtis]

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourself; it is the gift of God.

Salvation is grace. Salvation is by grace.

Salvation is God’s work. God is the Savior and is the One who works this out in and on the person whom He saves. As to how God works out and accomplishes His salvation, is told us in scriptures. It is clear to me, God does it through faith. Not through faith that comes from man, but through faith that comes from Him.

Tong
R3890

My point was too clear to obfuscate- faith precedes grace, thus faith/belief precedes salvation, and does not follow salvation/regeneration - and this fact is fatal to Calvinism, which is forced to claim salvation/grace comes before faith.

 

[Tong2020]

Hello BB,
Would God not open the hearts of anyone we pray for? Would He not send good Christians across the path's of those we pray this for? Still their decision (most important of ones life!)

My bible tells me that is NOT His will that ANY should perish. Jesus said...'if He be lifted up, He would draw ALL men unto Him. Still...our decision, IMHO
Maybe some Christian even prayed for Lydia's heart to be softened and mind to be open...or that she would be given the grace to receive the Truth. I will never stop thanking God that He is and has been, since the day I ever prayed for my loved ones and the lost...working in them. Still...ones decision..."Choose this day whom you will serve" Gods sovereignty stands, no matter what as, it's Him who works all things to the good to those who love Him. Yes, we will lose souls we love to this world. But then, He will wipe every tear from our eyes

John 6:37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Jesus speaks and refers to a people who consist of “All that the Father gives Me”. And that these people are they who will come to Him (Jesus Christ).

John 6:44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

In other words, concerning coming to Jesus, this is the truth of that matter, that “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him”. That is what He said to the great multitude who followed Him in Capernaum.

That truth even became even clearer in what transpired there after that have Jesus pointing to this to them in the following passage.

John 6:65And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

It is clear to me that coming to Jesus is not something that any and all man could just do at will.

Just wanted to share that to you.

Tong
R3891

 

[dev553344]

i can’t believe my ears when I hear a TV preacher who talks about the countless hours they’ve studied the scriptures, repeatedly say something so completely backwards that it’s staggering, especially because it pertains directly to salvation, thus is not a minor doctrinal error.

I just heard another preacher say the - mind boggling in its enormity of egregious error - statement that faith is our response to grace - thus claiming that grace precedes faith.

The very well known and often cited Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to be clear enough that by grace we are saved THROUGH faith.

Through: by way of - via - by means of.

By grace are we saved through - via - by means of, faith.

How can that possibly be misunderstood to the point of stating it backwards, and claim that grace comes first, because faith is our response TO grace?

Faith always comes first. It’s how we get to grace, how we access grace , as is very evident just from Ephesians 2:8-9 alone - but surely someone that said they’ve spent years reading the Bible all day long, would have come across the corroborating scriptures that reinforce the obvious fact that faith comes first, thus cant possibly come from a response TO grace.

Why is this important?

Because salvation occurs the moment we’ve received grace, after coming to faith, as is stated by Paul in Acts 16 to the jailer - believe in Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saying it backwards is saying this: be saved by Jesus and you will believe - which is the egregious error of Calvinists that are forced by their election dogma to put regeneration (salvation) before grace by faith, instead of regeneration by grace through faith

Here’s a couple of scriptures that the preachers who’ve studied the Bible for multiple thousands of hours should have come across, that reinforces the fact that faith precedes grace, and not vice versa:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access BY faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is OF faith, that it might be BY grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

I completely reject any cart-before-the-horse theology that has to put grace before faith to make it fit their dogma, thus putting salvation before faith

BTW faith is our response to hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17 - our faith isn’t a response to grace.

Maranatha

Grace is nothing more than God's ability to provide salvation with his vast powers gracefully. That is how we are saved by grace. Preachers like to sell that people are saved simply by believing and that good works aren't required to prove that faith. But they're doing nothing more then selling a desirable idea that gullible people might believe. God's people are righteous.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourself; it is the gift of God.

Salvation is grace. Salvation is by grace.

Salvation is God’s work. God is the Savior and is the One who works this out in and on the person whom He saves. As to how God works out and accomplishes His salvation, is told us in scriptures. It is clear to me, God does it through faith. Not through faith that comes from man, but through faith that comes from Him.

My point was too clear to obfuscate- faith precedes grace, thus faith/belief precedes salvation, and does not follow salvation/regeneration - and this fact is fatal to Calvinism, which is forced to claim salvation/grace comes before faith.

My point too was clear to obfuscate.

Salvation is grace and is by grace. And salvation is God’s work.

You correctly pointed out “Through: by way of - via - by means of.”

So, when Paul said that we have been saved by grace through faith, we understand that faith is the “means”. Whose “means”? God’s “means”. Now, would the “means”, that is faith, precede the grace of God? I don’t even see that to make much of a sense.

Tong
R3892

 

[Taken]

Curtis ~
In context is important to land on understanding.

Regarding Scriptural Topics;
Regarding Scriptural Teachers;

Not unusual for Scriptural Topics to be "taught" or studied in a series.
Not unusual for Scriptural Teachers to "teach" in a "series".
If you are hearing only a "portion", you may have missed the "context".

Gods Love, Knowledge, Word, Grace, Faith, Salvation, Blessings, Forgiveness, Understanding, etc.
are all OFFERINGS of GIFTS, TO; mankind.

*** No man, is required, mandated, forced to listen, hear, discover, believe, trust, Receive OR Take "ANY" GIFT, God OFFERS.

Gods "GIFTS" a man DOES willfully Agree to ACCEPT....comes with ONE CONDITION...
And that ONE CONDITION IS:
God Himself IS ACCREDITED as the GIVER of the GIFT.

*** Gods GRACE - IS the primary essential GIFT, that establishes the "foundation" FOR ALL the subsequent GIFTS God has to OFFER mankind.

When you review early OT Scriptures...men are learing about themselves...Where they came from, their habitat, relationships between their creator and maker and other men, women, offspring, animals, plants, sustaining themselves.

And GRACE is introduced very early to a mans understanding....that WHAT GOD created and made:
IS: Attributed to; Accredited to:
God BEING the creator and maker....
The Accepting of mankind; that God IS the creator and maker....
IS: the FIRST acknowledgement...that God Himself sees the man himself being GRACE-FUL.
And thereafter....mans Desires to BE SEEN BY God as "Grace-full".

MERCY of God, enters in the early picture, soon after GRACE.
Men are not perfect. And early man had very little knowledge, experience, historical references, etc. Yet found very quickly, the MERCY of God, was extended to them.

As Gods GRACE was taught.
And Gods MERCY was taught.
So also was...Grace and Mercy taught to mankind...
TO MIMICK, in relationships Between and Among men.

** Faith entered the picture thereafter.
A bit more complicated.
Faith-FULL God, hangs on What Gods says IS TRUE, period.
* FULLNESS of FAITH "IN" God, hangs on God IS ALL KNOWING.
* Fact IS, mankind is NOT ALL KNOWING.
One mans knowledge, experience, understanding is NOT the same as all other men.
* One mans TRUTH, can be completely different than an OTHER mans TRUTH.

** And therein lies...the introduction OF TRUST.
Every individual man, has to DECIDE...
TO TRUST God ABOVE ALL other things...
OR NOT.

** And that circles BACK to...GRACE.
Does God FIND GRACE IN A MAN...for TRUSTING GOD ABOVE ALL OTHER things...?
** OR does God find men TRUSTING things, other men, the moon, the stars, statues, luck, philosophers, traditions, rituals, etc.
Above God?

It all goes hand in hand.
God establishes and desires men to hear, learn, WHAT God establishes, WHY God establishes WHAT He Established and men to Freely, Willfully acknowledge what He establishes and mimick His Likeness.

For some men, Accepting Gods Offerings, is that mans Life's journey WITH God;
For other men; Ignoring or Rejecting Gods Offerings, is that mans Life's journey WITHOUT God.
And either way...God has Prepared a JUST fixed set of consequences, for whatever a man Freely Decides.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Stumpmaster]

Salvation is God’s work. God is the Savior and is the One who works this out in and on the person whom He saves. As to how God works out and accomplishes His salvation, is told us in scriptures. It is clear to me, God does it through faith. Not through faith that comes from man, but through faith that comes from Him.

On that basis then, an unsaved person is condemned on Judgment Day solely because God didn't provide them with faith.

Yuk!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

On that basis then, an unsaved person is condemned on Judgment Day solely because God didn't provide them with faith.

Yuk!

The Scriptures say that a measure of Faith has been given to every man....perhaps it is like a little flame that will put itself out if not tended to properly.....if you feed that tiny flame by blowing the “ oxygen” of God’s Word upon it, perhaps that is what takes to keep it alive and burning and gaining in strength....If one never reads God’s Word or listens to God-Chosen Teachers, that flame might just go out completely someday....it beats me....I’m just theorizing here....