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Featured Upping the ante

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Episkopos, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Who understands this passage?....

    Gal. 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

    Through what law?

    (Paul is quite confusing with all his references to law without being specific about what he's talking about)

    And what does this have to do with....the soul that sins...it shall die. ???
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Context is always critical. And this is the context in Galatians 2:

    15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
    18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
    19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain
    .

    The Judaizers had entered into the churches of Galatia, telling the Christians that they could not be saved simply by faith in Christ but must continue to obey the Law of Moses in order to be saved (justified).

    Paul had to correct this teaching. Therefore Paul makes it clear that "by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified". This is a reference to the 613 laws in the Torah. Justification is by grace through faith, not by the works of the Law.

    However when he says "For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God" he is speaking about "the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God". In brief "The just shall live by faith", which means that "Christ liveth in me", therefore I live by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ.
     
  3. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    What Paul said was like Christ saying "It is finished." Paul also elaborates to say the he/we "were" crucified and raised up with Christ...that the "old man" is dead.

    In other words, the age of the law and of the flesh has passed.
     
  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I can help you with understanding, if that is what you would like. Is that what you would like?

    Much love!
     
  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Hey brother Scott. :)

    The age of the law has not passed as long as mankind lives in this present age. Remember that the verse in question (Gal. 2:19) says...THROUGH the law I am dead to the law so that I might live to God. So then if we abolish the law then we can't enter into Christ...as I will show in this thread.

    Paul also says....

    Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    So then we actually establish the law through faith.
     
  6. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is good...it's going the right way.

    As it says in Romans 8:4

    That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Romans 7 says...

    7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?


    2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.



    So then it is the law that allows us to be dead and alive in Christ. Taking away the law takes away the ability to enter into Christ.



    Now it becomes the reality of an actual death according to the law....which qualifies us for the new life from the Spirit to kick in.
     
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Which brings us to the title of the OP....God has upped the ante. How?

    Here is an example of grace strengthening our weakness....

    It would being given the task of digging a hole and making this a law. Upping the ante is like a person who is too weak to dig a (lawful) hole with a shovel by his own strength...to whom God gives the grace of a backhoe to help him fulfill the law of digging the hole. Of course God now expects more of a hole now that he has been given the means to do so. But in empowering the hole digger God is taking the enterprise to a "hole" new level!!! ;)

    So what is at issue is our willingness to obey...to believe and to act according to the will of God once we have been empowered to fulfill His will.
     
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  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Of course I would not disagree that we establish the law. However, I would join Paul in now referring to such things as the crucifixion, resurrection, and the law, as past tense...just as the scriptures also clarify the timing of the crucifixion as "before the foundation of the world."

    As we become more like Christ, we too should lose our adherence to the times of this world. I think it best to translate eternity into times, than times into eternity...just as it is with those who think in their first language. I once was, but now, I am.
     
  9. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is this:....My natural inclinations break God's Law (decalogue) thoughtlessly and as naturally as water off a ducks back. Lying and stealing, unfaithfulness and idolatry etc etc are the natural outworking of pleasing self. I live in opposition to his Law whether or not I'm aware of it. It justly condemns me (dead).
    Having heard Jesus died taking that condemnation on himself I believe it and embrace it. His forgiveness now enables me with power not previously had to keep the very laws I was consciously or unconsciously breaking.
    The desire to keep God's Laws are planted in my heart and I will seek them out. Lying, stealing, unfaithfulness and idolatry etc etc are now given resistance previously unknown, my direction has changed and I live to God growing in an appreciation of the nature and love of righteousness.

    Without this desire my default position is antagonistic to God's Law reaping only death.

    It is straightforward....pursue sin and death results, pursue righteousness and life results.

    No doubt there will be those who will attempt to justify themselves by making the charge of working my way to heaven by deeds but this is only because promptings of the Spirit are not understood, opposed or rejected.
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is good. It describes the Romans 7 experience of desiring to do good.

    But there is a lack of power in ourselves to fulfill that to the level of holiness. We can become decent human beings....all the while knowing that we can't fully conquer the power of sin in us. And that is because it is based on law.

    I do commend the effort. But it remains insufficient especially considering that there is a grace available for the full victory over sin by abiding in Christ in order to live by HIS life.
     
  11. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Romans 7:9-11 KJV
    [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me .


    Tecarta Bible
     
  12. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Very strange pronouncement by Paul. What do you think it means?

    And what does this have to do with....the soul that sins...it shall die. ???
     
  13. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Still meditating, but I know there’s a direct link to the op
     
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    OK...and I had added this...but too late...


    And what does this have to do with....the soul that sins...it shall die. ???
     
  15. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Every soul sins, but without accountability until Gods holy law brings light.
     
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  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    It’s as it was with the rich young ruler, Jesus lit his world up, kinda bursted his bubble.
     
  17. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is the law!
     
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  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    True! But why would God frustrate us with more awareness of truth but without the power to overcome sin? IOW what is the use of having more love for righteousness yet leave our sin factory intact?

    Hence the new life in Christ. A life in a new power and one where we are no longer master. A surrendered life to God's holy Spirit.

    The power of the cross does away with the old life...that is the death we so fully deserve...but now it is not punishment for sins...it is liberation from sin.

    As we carry the death of Jesus in our bodies, the life of Jesus is able to kick in...miraculously by the operation of God.

    So then the law appeared to finish us....until we saw God's purpose which is according to His intervening power (grace).
     
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  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    But his own life with it's weaknesses....was still too attractive to allow God to crucify for him.
     
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  20. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    For me I’d like to substitute the word law with model and view it as He says I give you a new model.
     
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