Was Jesus Eternally Tormented?

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Phoneman777

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If the wages of sin is death...
and "death" = "eternal torment"...
what would Jesus have to do to take our place and pay our penalty for sin?

That's right...Jesus would have to be eternally tormented. Is He presently suffering eternal torment?

No, He didn't suffer "eternal torment" - He suffered death...which is exactly what Scripture says is the wages of sin.

And because the Father knew He was not guilty of sin, He was able to raise Jesus up after Jesus suffered death, unlike the impenitent wicked who deserve the death they will die which is the Second Death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection.
 

robert derrick

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This is why carnal reasoning with spiritual things of God is foolishness.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.


Jesus went by the Spirit to preach to the spirits in prison. He did not go to hell separated from the Spirit, as the wicked do.

The suffering of Jesus' soul was on the cross alone, when He was separated from the Father by our sins, for the space of 3 hours.

The price for sinning in this life, is separation from God and spiritual death of the soul.

Price for not repenting in this life, is tormented separation from God forever.

Jesus paid the price once for sinning, not the eternal price for unrepentance.
 

Earburner

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Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
You are misunderstanding the time after that of the event of Jesus' physical and glorious return in immortality. "Time will be no more". There will be no more "day and night" in eternity. The book of Revelation is not only symbolic and coded, it is also somewhat parabolic.
Rev. 1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Luke 8
[10] And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand
 
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Behold

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If the wages of sin is death...
and "death" = "eternal torment"...

Death is not eternal torment.
Its just the end of the life of the body.

Jesus's torment was to be sinless and have to bear the sin of the world, so that by His eternal sacrifice, we can have eternal Salvation as "the GIFT of Salvation".
It is because Jesus loves us so much, and understood what His Sacrifice would gain for us and Him and the Father, He made the decision to go to the Cross and die for us all.
 
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The Learner

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death is defined here:

James 2:26
King James Version
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

Behold

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death is defined here:

James 2:26
King James Version
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

When your heart stops beating, you are dead.
But not your spirit.
Just your body.

What about the "2nd Death"?

What about the fact that if you are not born again, you are DAMNED already, and that is the 2nd death waiting for your body to die.

john 3:36

There is a "death" beyond the death of the body.
 
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Phoneman777

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Death is not eternal torment.
Its just the end of the life of the body.
"The Soul that sinneth, it shall die" and also "...shall save a Soul from death" says the Scriptures. Not just the Body dying, but the entire being which is the Soul comprised of the Body that returns to the dust and the Spirit that returns to God Who gave it.

A soul exists as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, and ceases to exist when the dust returns to dust and the Spirit returns to God.
Jesus's torment was to be sinless
Scripture says otherwise:

"I delight to do Thy will, O my God: yea, Thy law is within My heart."
"He that keepeth the law, happy is he".
so that by His eternal sacrifice, we can have eternal Salvation as "the GIFT of Salvation".
Now you're speaking truth, bro.
It is because Jesus loves us so much, and understood what His Sacrifice would gain for us and Him and the Father, He made the decision to go to the Cross and die for us all.
Preach it, bro!

"Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith; Who for the joy that was set before Him (of the redeemed multitude that no man can number) endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
 
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Behold

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"The Soul that sinneth, it shall die" and also "...shall save a Soul from death" says the Scriptures. Not just the Body dying, but the entire being which is the Soul comprised of the Body that returns to the dust and the Spirit that returns to God Who gave it.

A soul exists as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, and ceases to exist when the dust returns to dust and the Spirit returns to God.

No, Jesus said, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God: yea, Thy law is within My heart."

Now you're speaking truth, bro.

Preach it, bro!

"Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith; Who for the joy that was set before Him (of the redeemed multitude that no man can number) endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Thank you for basically restating what i said "bro".

Good job.
 
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Phoneman777

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Thank you for basically restating what i said "bro".

Good job.
BTW, I edited that post. And it's not restating what you said. You said Jesus was "tormented" by obedience and that death is limited only to the Body.
 
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Behold

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BTW, I edited that post. And it's not restating what you said. You said Jesus was "tormented" by obedience and that death is limited only to the Body.

Only a fool would believe that being nailed to a Tree (Cross of Christ) isn't "torment".

And as i previously stated = the body dies, but there is also the "2nd) death.
 

Phoneman777

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Only a fool would believe that being nailed to a Tree (Cross of Christ) isn't "torment".
I never said being nailed to a Cross wasn't torment, so let's dispense with the Strawman, OK?

It was YOU who irresponsibly said "Jesus' torment was to be sinless..." which is wrong, and lest anyone be confirmed in the popular yet erroneous idea that living a sinless life is torment instead of "happy" and "delightful" and not "grievous", I corrected you.
And as i previously stated = the body dies, but there is also the "2nd) death.
No one who dies the 1st death will at that time experience the total hopelessness of separation from God because "as in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive" in either the Resurrection of the Just or the Resurrection of the Damned.

However, those who come up in the Resurrection of the Damned and are found worthy of the 2nd death will first experience the horror of total separation from God and a conscious understanding that they are about to be annihilated in the 2nd death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection.

So, how is it that Jesus died the 2nd death on the Cross but is in heaven today?
Because while He went through the unspeakably horror of being separated from His Father along with bearing the sins of the world which crushed the life out of Him, it was impossible for the grave to hold Him because though "He Who knew no sin became sin" He was at the same time "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners"...but those who reject His salvation and die the 2nd death will indeed "sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake" because they more than well deserve it.
 
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Behold

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I never said being nailed to a Cross wasn't torment, so let's dispense with the Strawman, OK?

It was YOU who irresponsibly said "Jesus' torment was to be sinless..."

Once again, you've misquoted what i said, intentionally, by leaving out the rest of what i wrote.
I said that Jesus being sinless and having to become sin, to take the sin of the world, upon himself, was "torment".

You should learn something new, Phoneman777

A.) Honesty
 
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Phoneman777

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Once again, you've misquoted what i said, intentionally, by leaving out the rest of what i wrote.
I said that Jesus being sinless and having to become sin, to take the sin of the world, upon himself, was "torment".

You should learn something new, Phoneman777

A.) Honesty
Sheesh, I correct your mistake and let you off with a warning and all you do is be a REPEAT OFFENDER?

It was "torment" for Jesus to be everything you said EXCEPT "being sinless" - Jesus delighted in "being sinless" and did not find it "torment". Your statement is an attempt to subconsciously implant negative sentiments toward obedience and I'll not let you get away with it.
 

Scott Downey

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Christ did not suffer eternally in any way.
He did however go to Hades, Christ was in Paradise the same day He died.
Christ was in the place of the dead for 3 days and nights.
Paradise was the place of the righteous dead who were awaiting Christ to come to perfect them and so that they could have eternal life, and not perish in hades.

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

The old testament saints at death went to 'Abraham's Bosom' which is also called Paradise. And they were separated from any torments of hell, but each on each side could see and talk to the other side, but they could not cross over from the place of torment to Paradise.
Christ did not suffer torment in hades. But before were in the heart of the earth, Christ descended into depth of the earth at his death.
Hebrews 11, the faith of the old testament saints of God, on their deaths did not have eternal life in heaven, they had to wait for Christ to deliver them from paradise in hades . No one has eternal life in heaven with God apart from Christ who is the way into Heaven. No one has ascended into heaven except Christ, and we follow along with Him into heaven, Christ led the captivity captive when He ascended.

Hebrews 11
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who [j]did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, [k]were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

 
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Phoneman777

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You redesigned my quote. and then you falsely implied that i made a "mistake".

You're being dishonest again...., and you'll do it again.
Behold, you need to take responsibility for misrepresenting the Word of God and not childishly accuse others of wrongdoing.

Jesus was not "tormented" by "being sinless" and for your own benefit as well as the rest of us, you should admit that.
 
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Behold

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Behold, you need to take responsibility for misrepresenting the Word of God

Ive over 300 Threads on the Forum, and over 6000 posts.
Not even an attention needy spiritual fakir like you, as proven by your posts.... can prove one sentence in any of them, is a "misrepresentation" of the Bible.
But you can continue to try, and continue to fail.
Thats on you, Phoneman777.

I teach Pauline Theology, and nothing else will do.
Look it up... and learn what you need to start to learn.
Start anytime you like.
 
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Phoneman777

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Ive over 300 Threads on the Forum, and over 6000 posts.
I've know doubt you have zeal toward God - my concern is that you teach some errors that can be shown to be unBiblical.
Not even an attention needy spiritual fakir like you, as proven by your posts.... can prove one sentence in any of them, is a "misrepresentation" of the Bible.
But you can continue to try, and continue to fail.
Thats on you, Phoneman777.
That's not only harsh, but violates the TOS here. We're not to call into question another's salvation nor criticize another's character and "attention needy" and "spiritual faker" is way over the line. Such talk is worthy of censure by the admins, so please withdraw it immediately.

I'll be monitoring your response.
I teach Pauline Theology, and nothing else will do.
Look it up... and learn what you need to start to learn.
Start anytime you like.
You included among the things that were "torture" for Jesus His "being sinless" and that is anything but "Pauline doctrine".
 
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Earburner

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The old testament saints at death went to 'Abraham's Bosom' which is also called Paradise. And they were separated from any torments of hell, but each on each side could see and talk to the other side, but they could not cross over from the place of torment to Paradise.
Christ did not suffer torment in hades. But before were in the heart of the earth, Christ descended into depth of the earth at his death.
Hebrews 11, the faith of the old testament saints of God, on their deaths did not have eternal life in heaven, they had to wait for Christ to deliver them from paradise in hades . No one has eternal life in heaven with God apart from Christ who is the way into Heaven. No one has ascended into heaven except Christ, and we follow along with Him into heaven, Christ led the captivity captive when He ascended.
You are correct.
All of what you have said in the above is revealed in Malachi 3:16, and has been fulfilled, as shown in Revelation 6:9-11.

Abraham's Bosom is to be understood figuratively, as shown in Malachi 3:16, and not that which is described in Jesus' parable by Luke 16:19-31, of which is a fictitious story said by Him, in order to deliver His singular truth in verse 31.
 
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