WATER BAPTISM, TWO PLACES

[H. Richard]

Two places in the Bible that I do not feel support baptismal regeneration (water baptism necessary for salvation) are as follows.

1 Pet 3:18-22

18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water """symbolizes""" baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand-- with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
(NIV)

Verse 21 in the NKJV reads:

21 There is also an “””antitype””” which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)

At the end of verse 20, we read that, eight souls, were saved ""through" water. It is not that they were saved "by" water; they were saved "through" the water. Water was not the savior, but the judgment through which God brought them. If the people in the Ark, left the Ark, they would have drowned in the water. Therefore it is obvious that the water was not salvation.

To properly understand this statement in verse 20 and the verse that follows, we must see the typical meaning of the Ark and the flood. The Ark is a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ. The flood of water depicts the judgment of God. The Ark was the only way of salvation. When the flood came, only those who were inside were saved; all those on the outside perished. So Christ is the only way of salvation; those who are "in Christ" (Romans 8:1-2, 2 Cor. 1:21-22, 2 Cor. 5:17) are as saved as God Himself can make them. Those on the outside could not be more lost.

The water was not the means of salvation, for all who were in the water drowned. The Ark was the place of refuge and the only means of salvation. The Ark went ""through"" the water of judgment; it took the full brunt of the storm. Not a drop of water reached those inside the Ark. So Christ bore the fury of God's judgment against our sins. For those who are "in Him" there is no judgment (John 5:24).

Actually, there is a baptism which saves us --- not our baptism in water, but a baptism which took place at Calvary almost 2000 years ago; Christ's death was a baptism (see Mark 10:38). He was baptized in the waters of judgment. This is what He meant when He said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished" (Luke 12:50). The psalmist described this baptism in the words, "Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls; all Your waves and billows have gone over me" (Psalms 42:7). In His death, Christ was baptized in the waves and billows of God's wrath, and it is this baptism that is the basis for our salvation; Christ's baptism unto death on the cross. Today the Holy Spirit baptizes us into His baptism on the cross. It is the Holy Spirit that does this, not man. That is what it means to be buried with Him. Our water baptism "represents" our identification with Him only. It does not save us.

Many people use John 3:1-6 to support water baptism. -- But what do these scriptures really say?

**** Scripture
John 3:1-6 .. (NIV)
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
**** end scripture

It seems to me that in verses 3 and 4 there are only two births being discussed, a man's first birth in the flesh and a necessary second birth of the Spirit. -- Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough. Some will disagree but I believe he is talking about our physical birth "birth to flesh" in verse 5 and that there is another birth, "birth to spirit" which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (NOT MAN)

Since the word baptism was not included in the text, to add it is to change the meaning of the word of God to fit into the theologies of men.

It has been said by another: I think it would be trivial to tell Nicodemus that he had to be born of the water if this meant physical birth. After all, he had already gone through this birth. Why bother to tell him then? -- Why, because it was Nicodemus that brought up the idea of going back into the womb and being born again.

Context is everything. Nowhere in the conversation has water baptism been mentioned. In John 3, verse 6 we see the words "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. " There is absolutely no mention of water baptism. Only two things are under discussion, being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit.

 

[tom55]

Throw out Luke 3:3, John 1:31-34, Mark 1:8-11 and 16:16, Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38 and you have a strong case.

Water doesn't restore or clean man of sins like it says in 2 King 5 or Ezekiel 36 or Zechariah 13.

If you act like the Israelites were not saved by water when they passed thru the Red Sea then yes, you are right.

If you take 1 Peter 3:18-22 and you do not realize the writer was trying to convey that water saved them then yes you are right. Water didn't wash away all the wickedness in the world did it? The water didn't save THEM it just destroyed the wickedness of the world. So the water really didn't do any good...did it?

And if you pretend that the water spoken of in John 3:5 is not the baptismal water that saves spoken of throughout all of a scripture since Noah and act like is a different water then yes, you are right. If you pretend it doesn't say born of water AND the spirit (both)...then you are right. Congratulations!!

 

[kerwin]

Two places in the Bible that I do not feel support baptismal regeneration (water baptism necessary for salvation) are as follows.

1 Pet 3:18-22

18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water """symbolizes""" baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand-- with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
(NIV)

Verse 21 in the NKJV reads:

21 There is also an “””antitype””” which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)

At the end of verse 20, we read that, eight souls, were saved ""through" water. It is not that they were saved "by" water; they were saved "through" the water. Water was not the savior, but the judgment through which God brought them. If the people in the Ark, left the Ark, they would have drowned in the water. Therefore it is obvious that the water was not salvation.

To properly understand this statement in verse 20 and the verse that follows, we must see the typical meaning of the Ark and the flood. The Ark is a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ. The flood of water depicts the judgment of God. The Ark was the only way of salvation. When the flood came, only those who were inside were saved; all those on the outside perished. So Christ is the only way of salvation; those who are "in Christ" (Romans 8:1-2, 2 Cor. 1:21-22, 2 Cor. 5:17) are as saved as God Himself can make them. Those on the outside could not be more lost.

The water was not the means of salvation, for all who were in the water drowned. The Ark was the place of refuge and the only means of salvation. The Ark went ""through"" the water of judgment; it took the full brunt of the storm. Not a drop of water reached those inside the Ark. So Christ bore the fury of God's judgment against our sins. For those who are "in Him" there is no judgment (John 5:24).

Actually, there is a baptism which saves us --- not our baptism in water, but a baptism which took place at Calvary almost 2000 years ago; Christ's death was a baptism (see Mark 10:38). He was baptized in the waters of judgment. This is what He meant when He said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished" (Luke 12:50). The psalmist described this baptism in the words, "Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls; all Your waves and billows have gone over me" (Psalms 42:7). In His death, Christ was baptized in the waves and billows of God's wrath, and it is this baptism that is the basis for our salvation; Christ's baptism unto death on the cross. Today the Holy Spirit baptizes us into His baptism on the cross. It is the Holy Spirit that does this, not man. That is what it means to be buried with Him. Our water baptism "represents" our identification with Him only. It does not save us.

Many people use John 3:1-6 to support water baptism. -- But what do these scriptures really say?

**** Scripture
John 3:1-6 .. (NIV)
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
**** end scripture

It seems to me that in verses 3 and 4 there are only two births being discussed, a man's first birth in the flesh and a necessary second birth of the Spirit. -- Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough. Some will disagree but I believe he is talking about our physical birth "birth to flesh" in verse 5 and that there is another birth, "birth to spirit" which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (NOT MAN)

Since the word baptism was not included in the text, to add it is to change the meaning of the word of God to fit into the theologies of men.

It has been said by another: I think it would be trivial to tell Nicodemus that he had to be born of the water if this meant physical birth. After all, he had already gone through this birth. Why bother to tell him then? -- Why, because it was Nicodemus that brought up the idea of going back into the womb and being born again.

Context is everything. Nowhere in the conversation has water baptism been mentioned. In John 3, verse 6 we see the words "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. " There is absolutely no mention of water baptism. Only two things are under discussion, being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit.

When a believer is immersed in water they receive the Spirit in its role of Advocate just as the man received sight when he washed in the pool of Siloam.

John 3 is most likely speaking of John's baptism and not the later immersion in Jesus' name though Jesus may have been referring to both. After all he was surprised Nicodemus did not already know about it and mitzvah is a Jewish practice of both repentance and conversion. Jesus simply took that God-given practice and used it just as he used the Pool of Siloam in his miracle with the blind man.

 

[H. Richard]

When a believer is immersed in water they receive the Spirit in its role of Advocate just as the man received sight when he washed in the pool of Siloam.

John 3 is most likely speaking of John's baptism and not the later immersion in Jesus' name though Jesus may have been referring to both. After all he was surprised Nicodemus did not already know about it and mitzvah is a Jewish practice of both repentance and conversion. Jesus simply took that God-given practice and used it just as he used the Pool of Siloam in his miracle with the blind man.

***
That is just your assumption. Jesus explained the truth. A man must be born of flesh and then the spirit.

Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough.

 

[Stranger]

H.Richard

It is a shame that people change the translation of 1Peter 3:18-21 to fit their explanation. And in so doing have changed the whole meaning of the verses.

"Eight souls were saved by water" Instead of trying to change it, you should ask yourself, how were eight souls saved by water? What did the water do that saved these eight souls? You opted for the human reasoning that the ark saved them and not the water. So you have to change the Scripture to fit your reasoning and thus pervert the understanding.

So what did the water do to save the eight souls? It destroyed the wicked and their worldly influence. Noah was the last one God saw as righteous in all the earth. Talk about being outnumbered, Noah knew it. God saved Noah and his family by destroying the wicked on the earth. And that, in a figure is what our water baptism does for us.

" The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. " 1Peter 3:21

God destroyed the filth of the flesh that was a threat to Noah. The like figure,water baptism, represents that same thing.

Stranger

 

[kerwin]

***
That is just your assumption. Jesus explained the truth. A man must be born of flesh and then the spirit.

Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough.

It is not my assumption since Peter stated "and you will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit".

Perhaps you are one of that falsely assume that when the Spirit came on the household of Cornelius that he received the Holy Spirit in its mission as Comforter when instead it was the Holy Spirit bestowing gifts. They are two different missions that or may not be done simultaneously.

You should already know that since the Seventy Elders of Israel were given gifts by the Spirit but they clearly did not receive it in its role as Comforter since the new covenant had not been established.

 

[kerwin]

H.Richard

It is a shame that people change the translation of 1Peter 3:18-21 to fit their explanation. And in so doing have changed the whole meaning of the verses.

"Eight souls were saved by water" Instead of trying to change it, you should ask yourself, how were eight souls saved by water? What did the water do that saved these eight souls? You opted for the human reasoning that the ark saved them and not the water. So you have to change the Scripture to fit your reasoning and thus pervert the understanding.

So what did the water do to save the eight souls? It destroyed the wicked and their worldly influence. Noah was the last one God saw as righteous in all the earth. Talk about being outnumbered, Noah knew it. God saved Noah and his family by destroying the wicked on the earth. And that, in a figure is what our water baptism does for us.

" The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. " 1Peter 3:21

God destroyed the filth of the flesh that was a threat to Noah. The like figure,water baptism, represents that same thing.

Stranger

I think you overthought that one but it is certainly a great explanation that does make an excellent point.

 

[Stranger]

I think you overthought that one but it is certainly a great explanation that does make an excellent point.

Thanks. where was the overthought?

Stranger

 

[H. Richard]

H.Richard

It is a shame that people change the translation of 1Peter 3:18-21 to fit their explanation. And in so doing have changed the whole meaning of the verses.

"Eight souls were saved by water" Instead of trying to change it, you should ask yourself, how were eight souls saved by water? What did the water do that saved these eight souls? You opted for the human reasoning that the ark saved them and not the water. So you have to change the Scripture to fit your reasoning and thus pervert the understanding.

So what did the water do to save the eight souls? It destroyed the wicked and their worldly influence. Noah was the last one God saw as righteous in all the earth. Talk about being outnumbered, Noah knew it. God saved Noah and his family by destroying the wicked on the earth. And that, in a figure is what our water baptism does for us.

" The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. " 1Peter 3:21

God destroyed the filth of the flesh that was a threat to Noah. The like figure,water baptism, represents that same thing.

Stranger

***
It is not about water. You should think of it as the Ark being a type of Christ. You want the water to be both a means of salvation and also a means of death.

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them. That does not mean that they are sinless. It means they believe what God told them in Paul's gospel of grace which states that Jesus' shed blood has paid for all their sins of the flesh.

 

[Stranger]

***
It is not about water. You should think of it as the Ark being a type of Christ. You want the water to be both a means of salvation and also a means of death.

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them. That does not mean that they are sinless. It means they believe what God told them in Paul's gospel of grace which states that Jesus' shed blood has paid for all their sins of the flesh.

It distinctly says it's about water. "eight souls were saved by water" It would have been easy for Peter to say "saved by the ark". But he didn't because he meant water. It is a perfect definition of what Christian water baptism stands for.

Stranger

 

[H. Richard]

It distinctly says it's about water. "eight souls were saved by water" It would have been easy for Peter to say "saved by the ark". But he didn't because he meant water. It is a perfect definition of what Christian water baptism stands for.

Stranger

***
Believe what you will but for me I believe in the Ark (Jesus) that God built for me. In Him I am safe from my sinful flesh.

I do not believe that a person being dunked in water is necessary for salvation. I believe Jesus did everything necessary for a person's salvation on the cross. Jesus does not need for a person to complete the Job He finished.

All glory belongs to Jesus.

 

[Stranger]

***
Believe what you will but for me I believe in the Ark (Jesus) that God built for me. In Him I am safe from my sinful flesh.

I do not believe that a person being dunked in water is necessary for salvation. I believe Jesus did everything necessary for a person's salvation on the cross. Jesus does not need for a person to complete the Job He finished.

All glory belongs to Jesus.

Salvation entails several aspects. Being saved from the penalty of sin. Being saved in your daily walk from sin. And being completely saved, body, soul, and spirit, from the presence of sin. Water baptism is not necessary for being saved from the penalty of sin. I believe it is necessary to be saved in your daily walk of salvation.

I agree. Jesus has done the work. But Jesus said for us to go and baptize. Didn't He?

Stranger

 

[H. Richard]

Salvation entails several aspects. Being saved from the penalty of sin. Being saved in your daily walk from sin. And being completely saved, body, soul, and spirit, from the presence of sin. Water baptism is not necessary for being saved from the penalty of sin. I believe it is necessary to be saved in your daily walk of salvation.

I agree. Jesus has done the work. But Jesus said for us to go and baptize. Didn't He?

Stranger

***
Jesus told the 12 who were Jews under the law to go and baptize. Ceremonial washing was under the Law of Moses. Jesus never told the Gentiles to do it and I don't think you can find a place in scriptures that say He did.

If you are going to base your ideas on what Jesus said to the Jews then you will miss out on grace. There is no scripture in the 4 gospels that say Jesus and the 12 rescinded the Law of Moses. --- But the gospel given to Paul did.

Matt 23:1-3
23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
NKJV

 

[Stranger]

***
Jesus told the 12 who were Jews under the law to go and baptize. Ceremonial washing was under the Law of Moses. Jesus never told the Gentiles to do it and I don't think you can find a place in scriptures that say He did.

If you are going to base your ideas on what Jesus said to the Jews then you will miss out on grace. There is no scripture in the 4 gospels that say Jesus and the 12 rescinded the Law of Moses. --- But the gospel given to Paul did.

Matt 23:1-3
23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
NKJV

Actually He told the 'eleven'.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holiyl Ghost:

You see? That is after the law. Jesus fulfilled the Law. Because of that, He can offer grace.

Stranger

 

[kerwin]

***
That is just your assumption. Jesus explained the truth. A man must be born of flesh and then the spirit.

Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough.

It is a circumstantial case with no alternative anywhere as solid.

Human beings are born of both both of was and spirit for they have a physical form and they walk according to spirit. Have you not read about about arrogant and other spirits? (Proverbs 16:18) A individual that truly repents has a new spirit because they no longer live according to the spirit they once did, John's baptism was immersion in water for the forgiveness of ones sins. So, Nicodemus should certainly realized that one must repent in order to enter the reign of God. The immersion is a symbol of what should be occurring.

John's baptism was definitely full immersion and that would have been what Jesus was speaking of but it would later apply the water immersion in Jesus' name that is taught under the new covenant though the later would be greater for by it one receives the Holy Spirit.

 

[H. Richard]

It is a circumstantial case with no alternative anywhere as solid.

Human beings are born of both both of was and spirit for they have a physical form and they walk according to spirit. Have you not read about about arrogant and other spirits? (Proverbs 16:18) A individual that truly repents has a new spirit because they no longer live according to the spirit they once did, John's baptism was immersion in water for the forgiveness of ones sins. So, Nicodemus should certainly realized that one must repent in order to enter the reign of God. The immersion is a symbol of what should be occurring.

John's baptism was definitely full immersion and that would have been what Jesus was speaking of but it would later apply the water immersion in Jesus' name that is taught under the new covenant though the later would be greater for by it one receives the Holy Spirit.

***
I take it that you are referencing Peter's sermon on Pentecost. If so then you have no idea of what was said by the Jews and Peter's answer to their question.

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
-
-- Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""
-
38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” (them = the Jews) "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
-
-- Note: Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. ---NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.
-
-- The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.

Nothing in this exchange was directed to Gentiles.

 

[kerwin]

***
I take it that you are referencing Peter's sermon on Pentecost. If so then you have no idea of what was said by the Jews and Peter's answer to their question.

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
-
-- Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""
-
38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” (them = the Jews) "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
-
-- Note: Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. ---NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.
-
-- The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.

Nothing in this exchange was directed to Gentiles.

A variation of John's immersion is practiced among the children of Abraham to this day. It is a known fact that it is for conversion and other things.

I do use Peter's sermon because it literally states that one receives the promise of the Holy Spirit. As far as I know any other teaching is derived out misunderstood Scripture and not actually stated as a teaching. I previously used the example of Cornelius' household because some error in assuming that just because they received the Spirit in its role as gift-giver that it has to perform all of its missions at the same time. That interpretation reveal of understanding of Scripture; just as I pointed out earlier.

In short you have not shown where there is a separate gospel taught to the Gentiles nor one place in Scripture where two gospels are mentioned. Paul actually makes it clear that their is one gospel.

Galatians 1:8Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[H. Richard]

A variation of John's immersion is practiced among the children of Abraham to this day. It is a known fact that it is for conversion and other things.

I do use Peter's sermon because it literally states that one receives the promise of the Holy Spirit. As far as I know any other teaching is derived out misunderstood Scripture and not actually stated as a teaching. I previously used the example of Cornelius' household because some error in assuming that just because they received the Spirit in its role as gift-giver that it has to perform all of its missions at the same time. That interpretation reveal of understanding of Scripture; just as I pointed out earlier.

In short you have not shown where there is a separate gospel taught to the Gentiles nor one place in Scripture where two gospels are mentioned. Paul actually makes it clear that their is one gospel.

Galatians 1:8Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

***
I grow tired of this. No matter how much I show in the scriptures that say we are no longer under the law people will say we are. No matter how much I show that indicates Jesus and the 12 (or 11) never rescinded the law. People will ignore it.
No matter how much evidence I show that Paul and James were not teaching the same thing people will ignore it.

We are under the grace gospel that was given to Paul for the whole world. Under grace the law does not apply. In this age of God's grace it is all about Jesus and His work on the cross. And as Paul stated if anyone preach a gospel that is different from his let that person be accursed. Paul said we are not under the law; if anyone says we are then let them be accursed.

 

[FHII]

***
I grow tired of this. No matter how much I show in the scriptures that say we are no longer under the law people will say we are. No matter how much I show that indicates Jesus and the 12 (or 11) never rescinded the law. People will ignore it.
No matter how much evidence I show that Paul and James were not teaching the same thing people will ignore it.

We are under the grace gospel that was given to Paul for the whole world. Under grace the law does not apply. In this age of God's grace it is all about Jesus and His work on the cross. And as Paul stated if anyone preach a gospel that is different from his let that person be accursed. Paul said we are not under the law; if anyone says we are then let them be accursed.

I hear ya... In regards to the discussions on this board over the last year or so... I have grown very fond of 2 Cor 3.... And thiese verses (though they be about 1950 yeats old) still fit today:

2 Cor 3:14-15:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


They claim to be under grace, and believe in grace. But still they feel they gotta get those works done!

James, Jesus amd Paul actually agree on one thing (they all noted this truth): doing works only justifies you in the eyes of men.

Not God.

 

[kerwin]

***
I grow tired of this. No matter how much I show in the scriptures that say we are no longer under the law people will say we are. No matter how much I show that indicates Jesus and the 12 (or 11) never rescinded the law. People will ignore it.
No matter how much evidence I show that Paul and James were not teaching the same thing people will ignore it.

We are under the grace gospel that was given to Paul for the whole world. Under grace the law does not apply. In this age of God's grace it is all about Jesus and His work on the cross. And as Paul stated if anyone preach a gospel that is different from his let that person be accursed. Paul said we are not under the law; if anyone says we are then let them be accursed.

What you reveal is passages you misunderstand.

It is the obedient that are not under the Law.

If a person transgresses against the Law then they are under the Law.

The Law is for the disobedient as the obedient need no Law as it is written in their hearts and minds. (1 Timothy 1:9)