"We Need a Moratorium on Genetically Modifying Humans"

[HammerStone]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/11/crispr_genetic_modification_should_not_be_used_on_humans.html

The new technology makes it much more feasible to try to create designer babies. Should we take the plunge? Where did this technology come from so suddenly? And how should we use it responsibly?



This new genetic modification technology is called CRISPR, short for clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats. It is fast, powerful, and cheap. For these reasons it is already ubiquitous in thousands of research labs all over the world. Some researchers are using CRISPR to make genetically modified plants and animals. GMOs that might have taken years and millions of dollars to produce in the past can now be created with CRISPR in weeks or a few months for just thousands of dollars.

I agree with the (more informed) author's assessment. It's time for ethics to be given a chance to catch up to the technology. It's easy to point at every new piece of technology, but ideas like this and much of the transhumanism mind space is really beginning to chip away at what it means to be human. Maranatha.

 

[brakelite]

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
We forget that 'the days of Noah' which Jesus said would be a type of the days before He returns, continued for some time after the flood. The people who built the tower of Babel, the forerunner to today's Mystery, Babylon the Great, were under the direction of Noah's grandson. The powers that be are in the process of rebuilding Babel, and they know that they are doing so in the face of the God who had to deal with the original. They are challenging God's authority and sovereignty, and daring Him to intervene. This is so in politics, science, medicine, but especially in religion.

Ps 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.

Maranatha indeed!

 

[Barrd]

Whoa, this is a tough one.
Suppose we could guarantee that your baby would be perfectly healthy....no defects, intelligent, healthy, even beautiful, etc...wouldn't that be a good thing?

I have a grand daughter who was born with no wall between the chambers of her tiny heart. At six weeks old, she underwent open heart surgery...she was given a 50% chance of making it off the table.
Seventeen years and several surgeries later, she has an artificial valve and a pace-maker, cannot use or be near a microwave oven, will never bear a child of her own, is on warfarin, and it is expected that she will not live much past 30.
Now, do you think that, given the choice, we would not rather have had this "crispr" technology, which would have guaranteed that our little princess would have been as strong and as healthy as any other kid her age? Of course, we would.

Problem is, once we open that door....

:wacko: EEK! :unsure:

 

[heretoeternity]

Trouble is GM people will have all sorts of medical problems..human science just does not have the knowledge to create "perfect" as God does even though they would like to think they do...some of the GM animals only lived a few days and were basically zombies...they may look okay but that is where it ends....face it.......Can scientists produce the genetic code? DNA exclusive to each person? These diabolical companies and scientists would provide a valuable service to the human race if they developed cures for diseases, figured out ways to fight poliution which cause illness and sickness in humans rather than try to mess around with God's creation, which is PERFECT! How can anyone improve upon that?

 

[Barrd]

Trouble is GM people will have all sorts of medical problems..human science just does not have the knowledge to create "perfect" as God does even though they would like to think they do...some of the GM animals only lived a few days and were basically zombies...they may look okay but that is where it ends....face it.......Can scientists produce the genetic code? DNA exclusive to each person? These diabolical companies and scientists would provide a valuable service to the human race if they developed cures for diseases, figured out ways to fight poliution which cause illness and sickness in humans rather than try to mess around with God's creation, which is PERFECT! How can anyone improve upon that?

Yes, HTE...I completely get what you are saying.
We have no right to "mess with" God's Creation...
And yet, no one complains when science figures out how to produce more and better crops, or improves the animals we use for food.
Did you know that you are have probably bought and eaten cloned meat from your local grocery store? Yep...and you can't tell the difference between regular hamburger and the cloned stuff.

It's not just my grand daughter. My son buried two boys from his first wife...there was a genetic incompatibility problem.
I know my take on this is not popular...I'm not even sure how I feel about it. But if the technology exists that would spare other families the kind of pain we've experienced with this, then I say that can only be a good thing.
And may God have mercy on us all....

 

[heretoeternity]

Blame mankind for your family having medical problems such as genetic incompatibility problems...this does no justify the scientific community trying to play God.,.,,,the dawning of the atomic age created a whole new range of genetic mutation and the associated diseases...who decided to split the atom and cause this problem? Mankind of course... Who decided to produce agent orange, roundup, napalm to use against fellow inhabitants of planet earth? Mankind of course..(Just ask the people of Viet Nam, they know all about it and are still suffering the genetic and medical consquences of this a half a century later)...
What you are saying is for science to create a bigger problem to try and cure the genetic incompatibilty problems and other problems by modifying God's already perfect creation..wrong approach....quit produced genetic altering products of destruction, very simple..but it is not going to happen because of corporate greed and complete absence of any moral/decency compass....
As for the GM foods, same applies..these frankfoods are making people sick, because we are kept ignorant of which foods contain these products...such we can avoid the main products which we know are GM, but how about the normal foods which contain some GM products?
My research indicates if you feed animals GM products they will not eat it..and if they do they get sick....
So now that science has played God, they, like all mankind's attempt to play God, and mankind's attempt to rule planet earth have been a dismal failure....it is time to get back to the spirituality realm of God and less trust in the physlical and emotion realm of mankind....
Just when we think humanity cannot lower the standards of decency and morality, then they give us another lower standard to live by...this is what the Bible, Revelation and the end times is all about.....

 

[Barrd]

Blame mankind for your family having medical problems such as genetic incompatibility problems...this does no justify the scientific community trying to play God.,.,,,the dawning of the atomic age created a whole new range of genetic mutation and the associated diseases...who decided to split the atom and cause this problem? Mankind of course... Who decided to produce agent orange, roundup, napalm to use against fellow inhabitants of planet earth? Mankind of course..(Just ask the people of Viet Nam, they know all about it and are still suffering the genetic and medical consquences of this a half a century later)...
What you are saying is for science to create a bigger problem to try and cure the genetic incompatibilty problems and other problems by modifying God's already perfect creation..wrong approach....quit produced genetic altering products of destruction, very simple..but it is not going to happen because of corporate greed and complete absence of any moral/decency compass....
As for the GM foods, same applies..these frankfoods are making people sick, because we are kept ignorant of which foods contain these products...such we can avoid the main products which we know are GM, but how about the normal foods which contain some GM products?
My research indicates if you feed animals GM products they will not eat it..and if they do they get sick....
So now that science has played God, they, like all mankind's attempt to play God, and mankind's attempt to rule planet earth have been a dismal failure....it is time to get back to the spirituality realm of God and less trust in the physlical and emotion realm of mankind....
Just when we think humanity cannot lower the standards of decency and morality, then they give us another lower standard to live by...this is what the Bible, Revelation and the end times is all about.....

No, HTE....I just do not see this as being a black and white issue.

Why is it that Christians must fight against science at every turn? God is not in competition with science.

My, how the church fought against Galileo, and the new idea that the earth was not the center of the universe...rather the earth was merely one of nine planets that revolve around the sun.
We know the outcome of that epic battle....

So now, science has come up with technology that could conceivably put an end to birth defects, and possibly allow our descendants to live longer, healthier lives.

So, while I get what you are saying, I'm just not sure I can agree with it.

 

[heretoeternity]

Good, if you want to follow the crowd that wants to play God, and try to "improve" on His divine creation...go for it...there will be lots of company on the wide path to destruction.
PS and yes it is a a completely polarized position, when you are talking about the subject of trying to play God....there is no middle ground, even though you think there is!

 

[Wormwood]

Good, if you want to follow the crowd that wants to play God, and try to "improve" on His divine creation...go for it...there will be lots of company on the wide path to destruction.
PS and yes it is a a completely polarized position, when you are talking about the subject of trying to play God....there is no middle ground, even though you think there is!

Are we trying to "improve" on God's divine creation when we use medicines and vaccines to help our immune systems fight off bugs that would otherwise kill us? I think we need to be cautious in how we approach such arguments. We are always using our God-given minds to improve a fallen world...whether that be with contact lenses helping us see better, air conditioning to help us deal with the climate or cars and planes to help us travel better. Doctors are even doing in utero surgeries to help correct things like heart issues and so forth in unborn babies or injecting the mom with steroids to help the baby's lungs develop faster in the case of a premature birth. Not saying I agree with genetic modification, but I do think we need to be careful how we word our arguments or it just comes across as a knee-jerk reaction that rejects any new medical advancements. Not only that, but are we really ready to say that God "designed" children to be born with birth defects or should we say these things are a result of the fall? Maybe God designed you to be near-sighted and it is an offense to him that you would wear glasses and reverse his intention for you to only be able to see a short distance in front of you....

 

[Barrd]

Good, if you want to follow the crowd that wants to play God, and try to "improve" on His divine creation...go for it...there will be lots of company on the wide path to destruction.
PS and yes it is a a completely polarized position, when you are talking about the subject of trying to play God....there is no middle ground, even though you think there is!

I had a polio shot when I was quite young...it left a scar on my upper arm.
I guess I'm going to hell, then?

 

[lforrest]

Suppose aging can be stopped by genetic engineering? Think of the implications. Didnt God intend for lives to be shorter than they were in ancient times cause he was getting tired of contending with us for so long? Or was that specificly referring to the flood?

That curse could have been a result of inbreeding following the flood.

 

[StanJ]

Suppose aging can be stopped by genetic engineering? Think of the implications. Didnt God intend for lives to be shorter than they were in ancient times cause he was getting tired of contending with us for so long? Or was that specificly referring to the flood?
That curse could have been a result of inbreeding following the flood.

From what I understand, that is not possible, but I'm sure God would impliment the last days, should that start to happen. He is NOT slow now, as some understand slowness, so I'm prey sure He would not be then.

 

[Barrd]

Suppose aging can be stopped by genetic engineering? Think of the implications. Didnt God intend for lives to be shorter than they were in ancient times cause he was getting tired of contending with us for so long? Or was that specificly referring to the flood?

That curse could have been a result of inbreeding following the flood.

I always wondered if that might have had something to do with changes in our atmosphere.
Meat was added to the diet after the flood...evidently protein became a major nutritional requirement. Why?

Just suppose science could give our descendants back those lost centuries of life...

Good point, Forrest!

 

[lforrest]

I believe the human genome has decayed since God created man, through mutations that are not beneficial. The result is a devolution of sorts from our progenitors. If these mutations were somehow identified and reverted... humans could receive many physical improvements. My hope is these mutations will remain hidden.

There is a company with a big budget working on curing aging through genetics: http://www.calicolabs.com/

 

[Barrd]

I believe the human genome has decayed since God created man, through mutations that are not beneficial. The result is a devolution of sorts from our progenitors. If these mutations were somehow identified and reverted... humans could receive many physical improvements. My hope is these mutations will remain hidden.

There is a company with a big budget working on curing aging through genetics: http://www.calicolabs.com/

My ancient grandmothers lived for centuries. I am 65...and I know my time is getting short.
My hope is that science can do something about this situation, so that my descendants can enjoy the life span God originally meant for them.

 

[StanJ]

My hope is that science can do something about this situation, so that my descendants can enjoy the life span God originally meant for them.

LOL, and what would that be?

 

[heretoeternity]

Are we trying to "improve" on God's divine creation when we use medicines and vaccines to help our immune systems fight off bugs that would otherwise kill us? I think we need to be cautious in how we approach such arguments. We are always using our God-given minds to improve a fallen world...whether that be with contact lenses helping us see better, air conditioning to help us deal with the climate or cars and planes to help us travel better. Doctors are even doing in utero surgeries to help correct things like heart issues and so forth in unborn babies or injecting the mom with steroids to help the baby's lungs develop faster in the case of a premature birth. Not saying I agree with genetic modification, but I do think we need to be careful how we word our arguments or it just comes across as a knee-jerk reaction that rejects any new medical advancements. Not only that, but are we really ready to say that God "designed" children to be born with birth defects or should we say these things are a result of the fall? Maybe God designed you to be near-sighted and it is an offense to him that you would wear glasses and reverse his intention for you to only be able to see a short distance in front of you....

















Are you producing a completely different genetic mutant by wearing glasses? Or taking vaccines? Of course not..but with genetic engineering, you are doing just that..creating a completely different genetic species..is that what you want..a bunch of zombies that were man created, with no emotions? There seem to be enough of them naturally now, without man trying to create more...man will not eradicate disease by this procedure, but open a new pandora's box, which will create more problems than you think it solves..

 

[Wormwood]

Are you producing a completely different genetic mutant by wearing glasses? Or taking vaccines? Of course not..but with genetic engineering, you are doing just that..creating a completely different genetic species..is that what you want..a bunch of zombies that were man created, with no emotions? There seem to be enough of them naturally now, without man trying to create more...man will not eradicate disease by this procedure, but open a new pandora's box, which will create more problems than you think it solves..

Again, I was not saying I was in favor of genetic alterations. I just am saying that the argument that we are "messing with God's creation" is probably not the type of argument we would want to push. We genetically alter animals and plants all the time in order to create certain breeds that produce more meat, more milk, have characteristics we desire for various tasks and so forth. There are many things we create and eat that are synthetic. There are many things that are "natural" such as pain whereby we put substances in our body to cancel out.

I agree that this is a big moral issue and that the perceived solutions will likely pale in comparison to the problems that result in the philosophy behind such genetic alterations. Regardless, in my estimation, it is going to happen. Humans have already embraced the philosophy of naturalism and that human beings are nothing more than chemical machines that have no inherent value...especially prior to certain gestational periods. There are even many who claim to be Christian who have swallowed such a disturbing worldview. Thus, if this mindset exists, then who is going to dissuade people from genetically altering these valueless clumps of tissue prior to their perceived development into human kind and the inalienable rights that come along with that designation made by the almighty State? Until culture accepts the notion that life is precious and sacred at conception, this is a losing battle. And I dont expect that will change because it would mean teaching a generation of egotistical, self-centered hedonists that they dont have the right to murder the unborn to prevent the personal inconvenience of caring for the baby.

 

[Barrd]

Are you producing a completely different genetic mutant by wearing glasses? Or taking vaccines? Of course not..but with genetic engineering, you are doing just that..creating a completely different genetic species..is that what you want..a bunch of zombies that were man created, with no emotions? There seem to be enough of them naturally now, without man trying to create more...man will not eradicate disease by this procedure, but open a new pandora's box, which will create more problems than you think it solves..

"a bunch of zombies that were man created, with no emotions"?????
Where did that come from?
Perhaps you need to turn off the SyFy channel for a bit.

 

[lforrest]

To err is human. You can count on us screwing up when it comes to genetic engineering. As I understand it the encoding of DNA isn't like computer bits. One gene affects many things. You may change a gene to stop someone's wisdom teeth from coming in, and they would be born without thumbs or many random mutations like that. You would need a lot of trial and error to make a mutation that is more beneficial than detrimental.