What about the Death to Self message ?

[Helen]

We have believed it for years, tried living it for years…but hubby and I were talking and at 77 & 82 we find we are no more “dead” than were were in the 60’s 70’s.

I’ve just read a book which really mad me think!!
…I know our old self got 'put on the altar' but it seems that most of us keep crawling on and off!!

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

It seems we have failed to really grasp the full message that we already did die IN CHRIST. Rom 6.6
So why the constant effort when We are already dead!! Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?
It was final, finished, done Rom 6 10-11.

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory! .."be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
That we believe His word and what He says about us.

We remember that God asked Adam in the Garden..” Who told you that you were naked?” ( one of the many favourites of @bbyrd009 )

And we know who said to Jesus- “ IF thou be the son of God…”

It is the same voice which constantly tells to us that we do not measure up!! (and often he uses the voices of some in our life or on this very site to tell us that!! He will use any will object he can to so his destructive work)

If we think about what is called 'the death to self message'…really it is all about US and Self!!! ( " How am I doing...always measuring the me." )
“ Am I being good and spiritual by being dead enough.?”


Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

 

[Pearl]

I have found that the longer I walk with God and the closer I get to him the more I see my faults and weaknesses. It seems to me that I - that it the spiritual me - died when I was born again. But the part of me which is worldly is taking longer to lie down and die. When I look back I can see that I have changed and there is more of Him in me today than there was all those years ago. I see more with his eyes and less with my own. I am not perfect but I believe that in Him and through the Blood God sees me without blemish and without sin.

 

[Helen]

I have found that the longer I walk with God and the closer I get to him the more I see my faults and weaknesses. It seems to me that I - that it the spiritual me - died when I was born again. But the part of me which is worldly is taking longer to lie down and die. When I look back I can see that I have changed and there is more of Him in me today than there was all those years ago. I see more with his eyes and less with my own. I am not perfect but I believe that in Him and through the Blood God sees me without blemish and without sin.

Good...so glad you saw the thread ... So often I miss new threads...

 

[CharismaticLady]

We have believed it for years, tried living it for years…but hubby and I were talking and at 77 & 82 we find we are no more “dead” than were were in the 60’s 70’s.

I’ve just read a book which really mad me think!!
…I know our old self got 'put on the altar' but it seems that most of us keep crawling on and off!!

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

It seems we have failed to really grasp the full message that we already did die IN CHRIST. Rom 6.6
So why the constant effort when We are already dead!! Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?
It was final, finished, done Rom 6 10-11.

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory! .."be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
That we believe His word and what He says about us.

We remember that God asked Adam in the Garden..” Who told you that you were naked?” ( one of the many favourites of @bbyrd009 )

And we know who said to Jesus- “ IF thou be the son of God…”

It is the same voice which constantly tells to us that we do not measure up!! (and often he uses the voices of some in our life or on this very site to tell us that!! He will use any will object he can to so his destructive work)

If we think about what is called 'the death to self message'…really it is all about US and Self!!! ( " How am I doing...always measuring the me." )
“ Am I being good and spiritual by being dead enough.?”


Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

What I am about to say is probably different than what others get out of dead to self. Ever since I was filled with the Spirit I've been dead to sin, so it isn't about not sinning against God. For me it is all about waiting on God. He knows my needs before I do, but in this period of my life, He has me not pray for my own needs (my own will), but to wait until He speaks to me WHAT I am to pray for, then I pray His words, and it comes to pass immediately.

 

[Episkopos]

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory!

This is like the chicken and egg question...which came first?

I see it as a stand-off between God and we modern believers.

Now most of us claim everything positionally so then these are happy with the status quo. I leave these to their delusion.

But let's look at this in a deeper way...and among they who realize that something major is missing in the make-up of the modern church.

I know that we cannot make ourselves die in Christ. Even Jesus Himself was crucified by the Romans...not Himself.

So then self-crucifixion is out.

God is the one who uses His power to put us into Christ. It is the power of the cross of Christ that puts us on that cross so that we enter into a new life...in the spiritual realm....where no fleshly person can enter into.

The word says..."draw near to Me and I will draw near to you."

So then we have to admit our failure and go to God in a humble enough surrender to warrant God acting on our behalf.

And that is the problem. It takes a LOT of humility and brokenness to do that. There is a balance between boldness and the fear of the Lord....humility and yet confidence in His character...in short we must throw ourselves at His feet in search of mercy. Can we do that? I fear that many will ridicule even this feeble attempt at realizing our need before Him.

God decides who He will translate into His kingdom. (Remember that we are rich and have a hard time understanding the kind of surrender it takes).

But we must never stop asking, seeking and knocking. If we humble ourselves before Him and in due time He will lift us up.

 

[Episkopos]

I just wanted to add that this whole idea of renewing the mind is so often just a person becoming indoctrinated into a static way of thinking...in the OLD mind. It is a waste of time.

We can only be renewed in our minds when we are already IN the presence of God...realizing that old ways of thinking are all out the window.

Step 1....enter into Christ.

Step 2...now that you are there learn of Him in order to remain in His presence.

God provides the purity...and we learn the maturity. We can only remain as long in holiness as our maturity IN holiness permits. That is what renewing the mind is about. It is about the mind becoming as holy as God is holy. We learn to be fully dependent on God by only drawing life from Him. So we learn to be the servant of all (especially God) and to love as He loves.

 

[bbyrd009]

seems like if we just forgave everyone their um "faults" like Catholics seem to be so good at doing and quit worrying about our "sins" unless they draw a complaint, that would be accomplished? Sin is quite often a mis-perception, yes?

 

[Nancy]

We have believed it for years, tried living it for years…but hubby and I were talking and at 77 & 82 we find we are no more “dead” than were were in the 60’s 70’s.

I’ve just read a book which really mad me think!!
…I know our old self got 'put on the altar' but it seems that most of us keep crawling on and off!!

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

It seems we have failed to really grasp the full message that we already did die IN CHRIST. Rom 6.6
So why the constant effort when We are already dead!! Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?
It was final, finished, done Rom 6 10-11.

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory! .."be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
That we believe His word and what He says about us.

We remember that God asked Adam in the Garden..” Who told you that you were naked?” ( one of the many favourites of @bbyrd009 )

And we know who said to Jesus- “ IF thou be the son of God…”

It is the same voice which constantly tells to us that we do not measure up!! (and often he uses the voices of some in our life or on this very site to tell us that!! He will use any will object he can to so his destructive work)

If we think about what is called 'the death to self message'…really it is all about US and Self!!! ( " How am I doing...always measuring the me." )
“ Am I being good and spiritual by being dead enough.?”


Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

Beautiful and honest post @"ByGrace"
My take is that until He takes us home...our flesh and spirit will fight one another and..."when the Perfect comes...
1 Corinthians 13:9-10
"For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."
I know there are differing beliefs about this scripture. My belief is that perfect means whole and complete...nothing in THIS world is perfect and complete at all...renewing our minds...SCRIPTURE BABY! Lol. We want his will for our lives, we pray for His will to be ours daily! We are "being" saved each day and He who began a good work...
There is not one person I know of either Helen "who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?"
Do you think that as we die daily this is a process? I do. But..we have to be willing, (and I KNOW you are to die daily to self.) If we are truly and sincerely following Jesus...we WILL SEE the changes in ourselves, and so will others. We pray to be humble so He does not have to MAKE us humble, I would rather do the humbling with His help first...we are all broken people...Christians too. Satan is still loose in this world and will constantly try to belittle our and weaken our faith...but we already know this so...Ephesians 6!
War is raging in the heavens and coming to fruition in this carnal world. But, we should not be surprised...He said we would be fighting..." For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against a spiritual wickedness in high places."
I believe that if we lived for a thousand years on this broken earth (Christians) we will still be struggling and fighting in The Spirit. He will finish the work He began in us ❤

 

[Helen]

I just wanted to add that this whole idea of renewing the mind is so often just a person becoming indoctrinated into a static way of thinking...in the OLD mind. It is a waste of time.

We can only be renewed in our minds when we are already IN the presence of God...realizing that old ways of thinking are all out the window.

Step 1....enter into Christ.

Step 2...now that you are there learn of Him in order to remain in His presence.

God provides the purity...and we learn the maturity. We can only remain as long in holiness as our maturity IN holiness permits. That is what renewing the mind is about. It is about the mind becoming as holy as God is holy. We learn to be fully dependent on God by only drawing life from Him. So we learn to be the servant of all (especially God) and to love as He loves.

Good posts ...thanks for your comments...I will have to read them over again s l o w l y.

 

[marks]

We have believed it for years, tried living it for years…but hubby and I were talking and at 77 & 82 we find we are no more “dead” than were were in the 60’s 70’s.

I’ve just read a book which really mad me think!!
…I know our old self got 'put on the altar' but it seems that most of us keep crawling on and off!!

Do you know anyone who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?
I don’t !!

It seems we have failed to really grasp the full message that we already did die IN CHRIST. Rom 6.6
So why the constant effort when We are already dead!! Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?
It was final, finished, done Rom 6 10-11.

This must be linked to the knowledge that 'our mind must be renewed' about all this if we are going to life in victory! .."be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
That we believe His word and what He says about us.

We remember that God asked Adam in the Garden..” Who told you that you were naked?” ( one of the many favourites of @bbyrd009 )

And we know who said to Jesus- “ IF thou be the son of God…”

It is the same voice which constantly tells to us that we do not measure up!! (and often he uses the voices of some in our life or on this very site to tell us that!! He will use any will object he can to so his destructive work)

If we think about what is called 'the death to self message'…really it is all about US and Self!!! ( " How am I doing...always measuring the me." )
“ Am I being good and spiritual by being dead enough.?”


Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

Amen!

 

[marks]

Maybe it is time that we just stopped Trying and started bathing in His Presence..and seeng our God who is indeed awesome in wonder ..and as @Not me 's lovely post said the other day… "Let Us Draw Near…"in FULL assurance of faith.."

Time we believed what The Word has told us… “For Ye are dead, and our new life is hid with Christ in God “

Yes! Life is found in accepting what God says is true!

It truly is Finished!

Thank you for a wonderful post!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Even Jesus Himself was crucified by the Romans...not Himself.

Remember . . . Jesus was crucified by the Romans, but they did not kill Him. He died when He chose to die.

God decides who He will translate into His kingdom.

He's already decided, all who believe in the Name of Jesus, and receive Him. All who call upon the Name of the Lord.

Much love!

 

[Helen]

Beautiful and honest post @"ByGrace"
My take is that until He takes us home...our flesh and spirit will fight one another and..."when the Perfect comes...
1 Corinthians 13:9-10
"For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."
I know there are differing beliefs about this scripture. My belief is that perfect means whole and complete...nothing in THIS world is perfect and complete at all...renewing our minds...SCRIPTURE BABY! Lol. We want his will for our lives, we pray for His will to be ours daily! We are "being" saved each day and He who began a good work...
There is not one person I know of either Helen "who has no chinks, hooks , or buttons to get pushed that is truly ‘dead’?"
Do you think that as we die daily this is a process? I do. But..we have to be willing, (and I KNOW you are to die daily to self.) If we are truly and sincerely following Jesus...we WILL SEE the changes in ourselves, and so will others. We pray to be humble so He does not have to MAKE us humble, I would rather do the humbling with His help first...we are all broken people...Christians too. Satan is still loose in this world and will constantly try to belittle our and weaken our faith...but we already know this so...Ephesians 6!
War is raging in the heavens and coming to fruition in this carnal world. But, we should not be surprised...He said we would be fighting..." For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against a spiritual wickedness in high places."
I believe that if we lived for a thousand years on this broken earth (Christians) we will still be struggling and fighting in The Spirit. He will finish the work He began in us ❤

Thanks Nancy...
I think once again it comes back to The Battle Of The Mind".
Im not sure its a fight between flesh and spirit but between the two voices..God's and the devil...which are with us all daily...which will we believe...So I can now see the 'dying daily ' is in my heart and mind, and I must choose God's voice and resist the other...just like in the Garden.

Romans 6:11 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

So now I will continually RECKON daily. xx

 

[marks]

I have found that the longer I walk with God and the closer I get to him the more I see my faults and weaknesses. It seems to me that I - that it the spiritual me - died when I was born again. But the part of me which is worldly is taking longer to lie down and die. When I look back I can see that I have changed and there is more of Him in me today than there was all those years ago. I see more with his eyes and less with my own. I am not perfect but I believe that in Him and through the Blood God sees me without blemish and without sin.

I see this same sort of thing in me. Even as God renews me, I hate all the more the old that remains.

I think we need to remember the powerlessness of the flesh, even though it acts as if it has power.

We definitely need to learn to have the same perspective as God concerning sins which remain yet in our lives. He's not concerned like I am.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Why do we still keep struggling to kill which God says is DEAD?

There should be no struggling. Christians should simply apply the acronym J-O-Y in every situation.

JESUS FIRST
OTHERS NEXT
YOU LAST

Christian living was not meant to be a constant struggle. On the other hand we are to war against evil spirits (Ephesians 6) and defeat them.

 

[Nancy]

Thanks Nancy...
I think once again it comes back to The Battle Of The Mind".
Im not sure its a fight between flesh and spirit but between the two voices..God's and the devil...which are with us all daily...which will we believe...So I can now see the 'dying daily ' is in my heart and mind, and I must choose God's voice and resist the other...just like in the Garden.

Romans 6:11 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

So now I will continually RECKON daily. xx

Amen sistah!
I was thinking along these lines: "For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please." Galations 5:17
I do believe the battles always start in the mind...hence "renewal of our minds" To be achieved through His Truth. Also, would you say that we are in constant battle as Satan's fiery darts are constant, continual?
xo

 

[Nancy]

Good posts ...thanks for your comments...I will have to read them over again s l o w l y.

Lol...yes...Epi's posts have to be read several times to get it, and even then, they can be way over my head!

 

[marks]

If we are truly and sincerely following Jesus...we WILL SEE the changes in ourselves, and so will others. We pray to be humble so He does not have to MAKE us humble, I would rather do the humbling with His help first...we are all broken people...Christians too.

Hi Nancy,

I agree, best to learn humility the easy way! The hard way is hard! I know. But humility is freedom. I think all it takes to be humble is to stop lying to ourselves about ourselves. If I accept the truth about myself without reservation or excuse, that's humility!

Pride is thinking, I should be better than this! Faith is being better, and forgetting about what just happened.

God's not thinking, You should be better than this! He remembers our frame, He knows we are but dust!

In humility we find our true and deepest weakness, and Jesus is strenth in our weakness. When we know that we cannot, that is when we truly look to Him, setting our hearts fully on Him, no other recourse, as He makes strong those whose hearts are set fully on Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thanks Nancy...
I think once again it comes back to The Battle Of The Mind".
Im not sure its a fight between flesh and spirit but between the two voices..God's and the devil...which are with us all daily...which will we believe...So I can now see the 'dying daily ' is in my heart and mind, and I must choose God's voice and resist the other...just like in the Garden.

Romans 6:11 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

So now I will continually RECKON daily. xx

I see this as the battle between the minds, each wanting supremecy.

I like this thought, Dying daily is to daily reckon. That's good stuff!

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy,

I agree, best to learn humility the easy way! The hard way is hard! I know. But humility is freedom. I think all it takes to be humble is to stop lying to ourselves about ourselves. If I accept the truth about myself without reservation or excuse, that's humility!

Pride is thinking, I should be better than this! Faith is being better, and forgetting about what just happened.

God's not thinking, You should be better than this! He remembers our frame, He knows we are but dust!

In humility we find our true and deepest weakness, and Jesus is strenth in our weakness. When we know that we cannot, that is when we truly look to Him, setting our hearts fully on Him, no other recourse, as He makes strong those whose hearts are set fully on Him.

Much love!

Amen Marks,
"If I accept the truth about myself without reservation or excuse, that's humility!"
Well, then since I know I have no problem at all accepting the truth about my own self as, my "self worth" had died...some would call this weakness or lack of "self confidence" but, I call it Christ conscienceless...if we all covet His will to replace our own...it WILL happen! He is so faithful and, I am pinching myself lately from several prayers for people that have been answered, verbatim! We know His will...so we should all be praying "Your will and not mine be done"...