What and when is the rapture. Part 1

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Marty fox

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Introduction

Does the bible really teach us that the rapture is the church being rescued by Jesus from a 7 year tribulation?

Actually, the rapture or even a seven year tribulation is not mentioned in the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation shows the church going through a 3 1/2 year persecution by a beast. This is a modern interpretation. In order to obtain truth, we need to be willing to put aside traditional teaching and read what the bible actually says.

What the book of Revelation doesn’t say about the rapture.

The book of Revelation was given with a specific warning to 7 literal churches about what would soon take place. Within this book of the bible a solemn promise is given that Jesus will stand with them and reward them for their trials and tribulations. The book of Revelation is written for us but it was not written too us.

Why would God choose one generation to be saved from persecutions and all of the other generations to suffer through them? It is great a privilege to suffer for Christ.

Here are some verses in the bible that leads some to believe is applicable to the rapture.

Revelation 4:12 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

This is not the rapture. It says come up here and I will show YOU (meaning John) what must take place after this. John is taken in the Spirit and receives a vision in heaven.

Some also believe that Revelation 3:10-12 is the rapture.

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

In Revelation 3:11-12 Jesus tells them to hold on so that no one can take their crown so they can overcome and be rewarded. This was a personable letter given to the church of Philadelphia, it wasn’t written to us, instead it was written for us.

Is the rapture in the Olivet Discourse?

Some also believe that Matthew 24:31 is the rapture

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his ELECT from the four winds,from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is not the rapture either. Matthew, Mark and Luke tell us that the ELECT are the chosen Jews that God saved during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 1.1 million Jews in all were killed during the siege on Jerusalem and only 97 000 people were taken captives.

These verses are during this conflict that was in their future and in our past.

1.Mark 13:20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the ELECT, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them

2.Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

3.Matthew 24:22-24 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the ELECT those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the ELECT

The ones taken in Matthew 24:40-41 are not raptured either, they are taken in judgment.

Matthew 24:36-41 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

In Noah’s time it was better to be left than to be taken.

In verse 39, the flood came and took them away. They are taken in judgment and the people were killed by the flood. The ones left behind were on the ark safe and sound. The ones in Noah’s day are taken away just like the ones in verse 40-41 are taken away. They are taken away in judgment. I want to be left behind safe and secure.
 

GISMYS_7

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1 Thess. 4:13 The "catching up" IS the rapture!!
3 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be""" caught up """together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. KJV
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Does the bible really teach us that the rapture is the church being rescued by Jesus from a 7 year tribulation?

No, see the last verse of Revelation 12. The "rest of her offspring" are Christians. The "woman" is Israel, and Romans 11 puts us in Israel as the wild olive branch, but Jesus is the root of both Jew and Gentile. The Church is not a Gentile Church, it is a Jewish Church with only a pre-set number of Gentiles coming into it, then all Israel will be saved in the end. But according to the 7 letters to the churches in Revelation 2 and 3 those who do not overcome their sin will be in the great tribulation: see Thyatira in Rev. 2.

Actually, the rapture or even a seven year tribulation is not mentioned in the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation shows the church going through a 3 1/2 year persecution by a beast. This is a modern interpretation. In order to obtain truth, we need to be willing to put aside traditional teaching and read what the bible actually says.

No, there is the first half in Revelation 12, and the second half in Revelation 13.

The first half is mentioned in two ways: 1260 days and time, times and half a time.
The second half is mentioned as forty-two months that he would CONTINUE.
 

Marty fox

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1 Thess. 4:13 The "catching up" IS the rapture!!
3 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be""" caught up """together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. KJV

Yes that is the rapture and that will be in Part 2
 

Randy Kluth

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Introduction

Does the bible really teach us that the rapture is the church being rescued by Jesus from a 7 year tribulation?

Actually, the rapture or even a seven year tribulation is not mentioned in the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation shows the church going through a 3 1/2 year persecution by a beast. This is a modern interpretation. In order to obtain truth, we need to be willing to put aside traditional teaching and read what the bible actually says.

What the book of Revelation doesn’t say about the rapture.

The book of Revelation was given with a specific warning to 7 literal churches about what would soon take place. Within this book of the bible a solemn promise is given that Jesus will stand with them and reward them for their trials and tribulations. The book of Revelation is written for us but it was not written too us.

Why would God choose one generation to be saved from persecutions and all of the other generations to suffer through them? It is great a privilege to suffer for Christ.

Here are some verses in the bible that leads some to believe is applicable to the rapture.

Revelation 4:12 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

This is not the rapture. It says come up here and I will show YOU (meaning John) what must take place after this. John is taken in the Spirit and receives a vision in heaven.

Some also believe that Revelation 3:10-12 is the rapture.

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

In Revelation 3:11-12 Jesus tells them to hold on so that no one can take their crown so they can overcome and be rewarded. This was a personable letter given to the church of Philadelphia, it wasn’t written to us, instead it was written for us.

Is the rapture in the Olivet Discourse?

Some also believe that Matthew 24:31 is the rapture

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his ELECT from the four winds,from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is not the rapture either. Matthew, Mark and Luke tell us that the ELECT are the chosen Jews that God saved during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. 1.1 million Jews in all were killed during the siege on Jerusalem and only 97 000 people were taken captives.

These verses are during this conflict that was in their future and in our past.

1.Mark 13:20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the ELECT, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them

2.Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

3.Matthew 24:22-24 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the ELECT those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the ELECT

The ones taken in Matthew 24:40-41 are not raptured either, they are taken in judgment.

Matthew 24:36-41 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

In Noah’s time it was better to be left than to be taken.

In verse 39, the flood came and took them away. They are taken in judgment and the people were killed by the flood. The ones left behind were on the ark safe and sound. The ones in Noah’s day are taken away just like the ones in verse 40-41 are taken away. They are taken away in judgment. I want to be left behind safe and secure.

There are some points here I would disagree with, but I agree with the main point, that most of these things do not concern the Rapture of the Church to heaven. The gathering of Israel I see as a future event, whereas you don't. Otherwise, I agree that Rev 4 and Rev 3 do not concern the Rapture of the Church.

The Rapture of the Church seems more in line with the Rapture of Enoch and Elijah and with the ascension of Christ himself. Christianity is a matter of being "in Christ," and if Christ went to heaven we will follow him there. What happens on earth after that event we can discuss at some other time! ;)
 
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GISMYS_7

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Ignore little men's ideas and opinions and choose to believe and understand God's Word.
1 Thess. 4:13 The "catching up" IS the rapture!!
3 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be""" caught up """together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. KJV
 

Marty fox

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Ignore little men's ideas and opinions and choose to believe and understand God's Word.
1 Thess. 4:13 The "catching up" IS the rapture!!
3 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be""" caught up """together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. KJV

I refer you to post #4