What Are we Getting Saved From?

[Aunty Jane]

"Salvation" is a common topic among professed Christians, but the whole idea of it has been warped and twisted into something that has no bearing on why God created humans to live on this earth in the first place.

If you pull everything together under a "big picture", all of the diverse ideas melt away into nonsense, and a clear and logical picture emerges.

So first of all, why do we need saving?....and what are we getting saved from?

Understanding why God put us here on this earth, is the first place to start getting answers to those questions.
What did he tell the first humans as to their role here?

Genesis 2:4-9....
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person. 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (NASB)

Read that carefully and tell us why God put mankind on this earth in the first place.....

More to come later....this topic will be addressed in logical stages....always from God's word.

 

[quietthinker]

What Are we Getting Saved From?
our own futility!

 

[Earburner]

We are being saved from eternal death.
The judgment of eternal death was the results, when A&E were restricted from partaking of the Tree of (Eternal) Life. Apart from that, all people do not have eternal existence of any kind.

God's deepest desire is to permanently dwell within the "earthen vessels" (our mortal bodies) of each and every person. However, because we all have free will, He knows that not all will come to receive His offer of forgiveness through the sacrificial death of Jesus, so that they may now receive God's judgment of His Gift of Eternal life. 1 John 5:12-13.

KJV John.3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[BeyondET]

"Salvation" is a common topic among professed Christians, but the whole idea of it has been warped and twisted into something that has no bearing on why God created humans to live on this earth in the first place.

If you pull everything together under a "big picture", all of the diverse ideas melt away into nonsense, and a clear and logical picture emerges.

So first of all, why do we need saving?....and what are we getting saved from?

Understanding why God put us here on this earth, is the first place to start getting answers to those questions.
What did he tell the first humans as to their role here?

Genesis 2:4-9....
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person. 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (NASB)

Read that carefully and tell us why God put mankind on this earth in the first place.....

More to come later....this topic will be addressed in logical stages....always from God's word.

Is this a concept of man saved from the world and placed in the garden?.

 

[n2thelight]

Death

 

[Aunty Jane]

Is this a concept of man saved from the world and placed in the garden?.

No...its a thread about why humans were put here on earth in the first place, and what God originally intended as their eternal future.

In the beginning, there was nothing to be "saved" from....so what happened to alter God's purpose to the extent that the very opposite happened to the human race to what God first intended?

 

[Aunty Jane]

We are being saved from eternal death.
The judgment of eternal death was the results, when A&E were restricted from partaking of the Tree of (Eternal) Life. Apart from that, all people do not have eternal existence of any kind.

God's deepest desire is to permanently dwell within the "earthen vessels" (our mortal bodies) of each and every person. However, because we all have free will, He knows that not all will come to receive His offer of forgiveness through the sacrificial death of Jesus, so that they may now receive God's judgment of His Gift of Eternal life. 1 John 5:12-13.

KJV John.3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You're jumping the gun on me there EB.....first things first.
What was God's original purpose for mankind on this earth?

 

[keithr]

So first of all, why do we need saving?....and what are we getting saved from?

As others have replied, we are saved from death, which is God's penalty for sin. It's all summarised by Paul in Romans 6:23 (WEB):

(23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

Understanding why God put us here on this earth, is the first place to start getting answers to those questions.

I think God created us (and the angels) for His good pleasure, for companionship and to express His perfect love. When you're as awesome as God you're not going to want to sit around all alone doing nothing for all eternity!

Through humans God was also preparing a bride for His only-begotten Son, whom He loves above all others.

 

[Jack]

"What Are we Getting Saved From?"

This:
Revelation 20
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Aunty Jane]

As others have replied, we are saved from death, which is God's penalty for sin. It's all summarised by Paul in Romans 6:23 (WEB):

(23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

I think God created us (and the angels) for His good pleasure, for companionship and to express His perfect love. When you're as awesome as God you're not going to want to sit around all alone doing nothing for all eternity!

Through humans God was also preparing a bride for His only-begotten Son, whom He loves above all others.

I would like this thread to be a series of answered questions so that we get the *big picture* of why we are here, and what God intended for the human race at the outset.....salvation was not an issue when God first created humankind. As we progress, I would like to examine the events that led us to needing salvation in the first place.

I would just like this thread to be an examination of all the scriptural evidence that led us here.
People tend to concentrate on bits of the story but miss some of the most important aspects of it.

Thanks for your reply....

 

[Aunty Jane]

"What Are we Getting Saved From?"

This:
Revelation 20
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

OK...we will get to the end eventually, but it’s not a good place to start.....we are going right back to the beginning of material creation to see why God put us here on this carefully prepared planet, and what kind of life he intended for us to have at the outset. Why did there need to even be a “book of life”?

We will get to that and “the lake of fire”.......but first things first.....

 

[Gregory]

"What Are we Getting Saved From?"

This:
Revelation 20
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

You are aware that "a lake of fire and brimstone" is a metaphor. A wonderful, all powerful, loving creator would never put one of his creations in a lake of fire and brimstone for eternity to suffer the burning sensation of a fire, 24/7 X trillions of years. Think about it.

I can think of God separating Himself from his creation, and His creation finally realizing that for trillions of years he/she would not have the tender care of a loving creator ever again. No knew knowledge, no expansion, no challenges to keep you interested in something. And then he realizes that his lackluster condition was wrought because he simply did not believe in God and His Christ and do their will. His life was miserable on earth and his after life will be more miserable.

So stay on the right track and what is in store for you from God will be so tremendous that your brain cannot fathom it, and what it will be like will never enter your heart until it happens. I look forward to that day.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Continuing on....we can see from Genesis 2:5-9 some interesting points....

“Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground”.

So before humankind walked the earth, no shrub or plant of the field had yet sprouted because there was no rain falling on the earth in its early stages of preparation. A mist would rise and water the ground. So a future ‘cultivating of the ground’ by man was planned.

“ Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living person.”

So as his final creative act, God created humans “in his image and likeness”.....many other creatures were made before us, but no others were made like God. So in what way did humans resemble their Creator? Obviously not physically, because “God is a spirit” who has no form that humans can observe.
So we are created with God’s attributes and qualities.....all the personality traits that Jesus displayed when he walked the earth. Unlike the animals, we have an innate need to worship our Creator and to serve his interests.

When God breathed life into Adam, his body was animated and he became “a living person” (soul Hebrew “neʹphesh”).
So Adam was not “given” a “soul” but “became” one when God started the breathing process. All life would then proceed from the life that God created, and every “soul” was “a breather” which is what the word means in Hebrew. This word is never used to describe a disembodied spirit. This dispels the notion of an immortal soul, because all souls must breathe. When breathing stops, the “soul” (person) dies. (Ezekiel 18:4, Ecclesiastes 3:19-20; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

“The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (NASB)o

So by the time mankind came on the scene all other living things were already here, and God had provided food for them all. Humans had a vast array of fruit to choose from as the garden that God planted was filled with all kinds of fruit trees. It was a perfect food and they wanted for nothing.

Two particular trees were mentioned....”the tree of life” and “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”.
These two trees represented two opposite choices with very different outcomes for those who partook of them.....
“Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and tend it. The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may freely eat; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:15-17 - NASB)

Only one of the trees was off limits and for good reason. This is the first mention of death to Adam...and it was a penalty for disobedience. There is no natural cause of death ever mentioned for humans in the creation account. What does that tell us.....And why was that tree there in the first place?

God gave his human children something he did not give to any other creature....he gave them free will based on intelligent choice. Free will was not free unless it could be exercised at the discretion of the individual in full knowledge of the consequences.....all choices have consequences. So because he could not keep that knowledge from his free willed children, he placed a penalty in front of it for their protection....to keep a knowledge of evil from them as long as they obeyed him. He would guide them in all that was good, thereby preventing evil from ever being experience in their lives at all.

So why does evil exist? Because everything in God’s creation is in perfect balance. In order for good to exist, it’s equal counterpart also had to exist, but the extreme good that God would gift to his children also had extreme evil as its opposite. That is what the tree represented....God’s love for his children and a desire to allow free will to be exercised only within the limits he set.....and always for their good.

So what future could humans look forward to? We see from God’s original instruction to them....

“So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “ Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (Genesis 1:27-28 -NASB)

Do you see man’s purpose in being placed here on earth? He was instructed to “fill the earth” (not just the garden) with his children and to “subdue” the earth outside of the garden, thereby extending the borders of his paradise home until the whole world looked like the garden of Eden. Can you imagine....?

Having God’s qualities and attributes, man was to take care of the earth as his God would have it cared for. With these qualities, his work would reflect the creativity and eye for beauty that God had given to his human caretakers.
This is why we are here.....and there was to be no end to his life here....nothing to cause harm or ruin...as long as they remained obedient, access to the tree of life would have been theirs forever.....it was the means that God supplied to live in mortal flesh for eternity.

Therefore, God’s first purpose was to have a beautiful planet filled with loving and obedient children, serving their purpose for being here....and fulfilling their mandate to populate the earth and to take good care of it eternally......but that is not our reality, is it.

What went wrong?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I wonder if God created all things in six days and then looked on all his creation and judged it good, not perfect, why did he plant a tree there that was off limits?

The fruit of which would bestow within its consumer conscious understanding of right and wrong. But yet was off limits.

Why was there a law in paradise?

How was Adam and Eve to obey God's law against eating of that one tree? When they didn't know what right and wrong was?

How does paradise have a forbidden tree?

How does Satan enter a paradise made by God?
Thinking God who creates everything that exists won't know it is Satan who is disguised as a snake.

 

[BeyondET]

No...its a thread about why humans were put here on earth in the first place, and what God originally intended as their eternal future.

In the beginning, there was nothing to be "saved" from....so what happened to alter God's purpose to the extent that the very opposite happened to the human race to what God first intended?

The knowledge tree was there from the get go, don't touch was to save them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I wonder if God created all things in six days and then looked on all his creation and judged it good, not perfect, why did he plant a tree there that was off limits?

There is a bigger picture that will answer all your questions....
I have explained why there was a tree that was off limits....

The fruit of which would bestow within its consumer conscious understanding of right and wrong. But yet was off limits

Answered in my last post. They already knew right from wrong....what they didn't know was good and evil. God had shown them good, but he tried to keep evil away.

Why was there a law in paradise?

Because God did not create robots...he created beings with intelligence and who were endowed with his attributes and qualities.
Free will is not "free" as in being free to do whatever you want, because unrestrained, it turns a gift into a curse. Think of all the atrocities that have ever been committed on this earth and you will see the abuse of someone's free will at the bottom of all of it.
The whole reason why we are in this mess is because a spirit creature abused his free will and encouraged the first humans to do the same.

How was Adam and Eve to obey God's law against eating of that one tree? When they didn't know what right and wrong was?

They did know right from wrong....they had just never experienced evil and God never wanted them to. He wanted to protect his children like any good parent. God knew that a knowledge of evil is not beneficial to anyone....so he tried to protect them whilst at the same time preserving the gift of free will.

How does paradise have a forbidden tree?

Answered in my last post.

How does Satan enter a paradise made by God?

Satan was formerly a faithful angel, who abused his free will and tempted the first humans to disobey their Creator thus separating them from him.
Ezekiel tells us that he was a guardian Cherub in the garden of Eden.
God addressed this to the King of Tyre, but it is clearly aimed at satan....

Ezekiel 28:12-17
"You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering. . . .
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you. . . .
Your heart was haughty because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor."

He was there in a position of responsibility fulfilling his assignment. But being right there, he began to envy the worship that these new creatures would give to God, thinking that he was so magnificent that he deserved to be worshipped....so he plotted to take the humans away from him, and steal their worship for himself......he lied to the woman and through her, he also got to her husband....and now we are all caught up in satan's trap (Romans 5:12).....but not for much longer, because God planned a rescue mission at the very beginning. Jesus would come and offer his life for ours.....and after the appointed time he would return and establish God's Kingdom over the earth and restore all that we lost in Eden. (Revelation 21:2-4) This includes the promised resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

Thinking God who creates everything that exists won't know it is Satan who is disguised as a snake.

Do you know why God allowed the devil and those who chose him as their god, to live? He could have put all three rebels to death right there and then, but all that would have proven is that God is more powerful than the one who became his adversary.....satan never challenged God's power....he challenged his Sovereignty.....the right to make the rules and set reasonable limits for his children. Satan asserted that the limits God placed on them were not reasonable, and that God was holding back something they had a right to know.....did he? Did he lie to the woman about the penalty....? After all they didn't die that day......or did they?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The knowledge tree was there from the get go, don't touch was to save them.

The TKGE was the only cause of death, so as long as they obeyed God's command they would not die.....the "tree of life" would give them the ability live forever.....death came as a result of sin...access to the tree of life was denied....and other cherubs were assigned to guard the way to it.

So in God's first purpose, no sin would have meant, no death. (Genesis 3:22-24)

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

There is a bigger picture that will answer all your questions....
I have explained why there was a tree that was off limits....


Answered in my last post. They already knew right from wrong....what they didn't know was good and evil. God had shown them good, but he tried to keep evil away.


Because God did not create robots...he created beings with intelligence and who were endowed with his attributes and qualities.
Free will is not "free" as in being free to do whatever you want, because unrestrained, it turns a gift into a curse. Think of all the atrocities that have ever been committed on this earth and you will see the abuse of someone's free will at the bottom of all of it.
The whole reason why we are in this mess is because a spirit creature abused his free will and encouraged the first humans to do the same.


They did know right from wrong....they had just never experienced evil and God never wanted them to. He wanted to protect his children like any good parent. God knew that a knowledge of evil is not beneficial to anyone....so he tried to protect them whilst at the same time preserving the gift of free will.


Answered in my last post.


Satan was formerly a faithful angel, who abused his free will and tempted the first humans to disobey their Creator this separating them from him.
Ezekiel tells us that he was a guardian Cherub in the garden of Eden.
God addressed this to the King of Tyre, but it is clearly aimed at satan....

Ezekiel 28:12-17
"You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering. . . .
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you. . . .
Your heart was haughty because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor."

He was there in a position of responsibility fulfilling his assignment. But being right there, he began to envy the worship that these new creatures would give to God, thinking that he was so magnificent that he deserved to be worshipped....so he plotted to take the humans away from him, and steal their worship for himself......he lied to the woman and through her, he also got to her husband....and now we are all caught up in satan's trap (Romans 5:12).....but not for much longer, because God planned a rescue mission at the very beginning. Jesus would come and offer his life for ours.....and after the appointed time he would return and establish God's Kingdom over the earth and restore all that we lost in Eden. (Revelation 21:2-4) This includes the promised resurrection. (John 5:28-29)


Do you know why God allowed the devil and those who chose him as their god, to live? He could have put all three rebels to death right there and then, but all that would have proven is that God is more powerful than the one who became his adversary.....satan never challenged God's power....he challenged his Sovereignty.....the right to make the rules and set reasonable limits for his children. Satan asserted that the limits God placed on them were not reasonable, and that God was holding back something they had a right to know.....did he? Did he lie to the woman about the penalty....? After all they didn't die that day......or did they?

Bless you for sharing your opinion with us.

My prior post was addressed to everyone sharing here too. Hoping others share their insights,opinions,as well.️

 

[bbyrd009]

What went wrong?

ha maybe nothing eh

 

[BeyondET]

The TKGE was the only cause of death, so as long as they obeyed God's command they would not die.....the "tree of life" would give them the ability live forever.....death came as a result of sin...access to the tree of life was denied....and other cherubs were assigned to guard the way to it.

So in God's first purpose, no sin would have meant, no death. (Genesis 3:22-24)

But that was conditional, a smidgen is known but man doesn't know what the full purpose of man was because man chose to walk away from the purpose.