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Featured What did Paul Say was Nailed to the Pale (Cross)?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by HARK!, May 18, 2020.

  1. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    Colossians 2:14 (CLV)

    erasing the handwriting of the decrees against us, which was hostile to us, and has taken it away out of the midst, nailing it to the cross,


    Lexicon :: Strong's G1378 - dogma
    [​IMG]
    δόγμα
    Transliteration
    dogma
    Pronunciation
    do'g-mä (Key)

    Part of Speech
    neuter noun
    Root Word (Etymology)
    From the base of δοκέω (G1380)
    Dictionary Aids
    Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

    TDNT Reference: 2:230,178

    KJV Translation Count — Total: 5x
    The KJV translates Strong's G1378 in the following manner: decree (3x), ordinance (2x).
    Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
    1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
      1. of public decrees

      2. of the Roman Senate

      3. of rulers
    2. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment

    3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
    Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
    δόγμα dógma, dog'-mah; from the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance.
    Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)
    STRONGS NT 1378: δόγμα
    δόγμα, δογματος, τό (from δοκέω, and equivalent to τό δεδογμενον), an opinion, a judgment (Plato, others), doctrine, decree, ordinance;
    1. of public decrees (as τῆς πόλεως, Plato, legg. 1, p. 644 d.; of the Roman Senate (Polybius 6, 13, 2); Herodian, 7, 10, 8 (5, Bekker edition)): of rulers, Luke 2:1; Acts 17:7; Hebrews 11:23 Lachmann (Theod. in Daniel 2:13; Daniel 3:10; Daniel 4:3; Daniel 6:13, etc. — where the Sept. uses other words).
    2. of the rules and requirements of the law of Moses, 3Macc. 1:3; διατήρησις τῶν ἁγίων δογμάτων, Philo, alleg. legg. i., § 16; carrying a suggestion of severity, and of threatened punishment, τόν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δογμασι, the law containing precepts in the form of decrees (A. V. the law of commandments contained in ordinances), Ephesians 2:15; τό καθ' ἡμῶν χειρόγραφον τοῖς δογμασι equivalent to τό τοῖς δογμασι (dative of instrument) by ὄν καθ' ἡμῶν, the bond against us by its decrees, Colossians 2:14; cf. Winers Grammar, § 31, 10 Note 1 (Buttmann, 92 (80); on both passages see Lightfoot on Colossians, the passage cited).
    3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living: Acts 16:4. (Of all the precepts of the Christian religion: βεβαιωθῆναι ἐν τοῖς δόγμασιν τοῦ κυρίου καί τῶν ἀποστόλων, Ignatius ad Magnes. 13, 1 [ET]; of the precepts (`sentences' or tenets) of philosophers, in the later secular writings: Cicero, acad. 2, 9, 27de suis decretis, quae philosophi vocant dogmata.) (On the use of the word in general, see Lightfoot as above; (cf. 'Teaching' etc. 11, 3 [ET]).)


    Source: Genesis 1:1 (NASB)

    Now why would Paul use the word δόγμα in this verse?

    I believe that he meant what he said, and said what he meant.


    Anytime Paul is referring to THE LAW of Yahweh he used the phrase ho nomos which is
    “The Law” in Greek.

    So if THE LAW wasn't nailed to the (stake) pale; what was?


    DECREE - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
    DECREE, n. L. To judge; to divide.
    1. Judicial decision or determination of a litigated cause; as a decree of the court of
    chancery. The decision of a court of equity is called a decree; that of a court of law, a
    judgment.

    This is the gift of YHWH's goodwill. Put into context, Paul is not contradicting Yahshua, who said that the LAW will not pass away before heaven or earth. He's not telling us that we can live like lawless Hellians under grace because the LAW has been demolished. He's telling us that the judgements (under penalty of death) of our past sins are taken away, through Yahshua, by the goodwill of Yahweh.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  2. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    The PENALTY of the law, All the decrees which prove our guilt and make us guilty before God
     
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  3. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Here is a more in-depth defenition of the greek word

    δόγμα, -τος, τό, (fr. δοκέω, and equiv. to τὸ δεδογμένον), an opinion, a judgment (Plat., al.), doctrine, decree, ordinance;
    1. of public decrees (as τῆς πόλεως, Plat. legg. 1 p. 644 d.; of the Roman Senate, [Polyb. 6, 13, 2]; Hdian. 7, 10, 8 [5 ed. Bekk.]): of rulers, Lk. 2:1; Acts 17:7; Heb. 11:23 Lchm., (Theodot. in Dan. 2:13; 3:10; 4:3; 6:13, etc.,—where the Sept. use other words).
    2. of the rules and requirements of the law of Moses, 3 Macc. 1:3; διατήρησις τῶν ἁγίων δογμάτων, Philo, alleg. legg. i. § 16; carrying a suggestion of severity, and of threatened punishment, τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασι, the law containing precepts in the form of decrees [A. V. the law of commandments contained in ordinances], Eph. 2:15; τὸ καθʼ ἡμῶν χειρόγραφον τοῖς δόγμασι equiv. to τὸ τοῖς δόγμασι (dat. of instrument) ὂν καθʼ ἡμῶν, the bond against us by its decrees, Col. 2:14; cf. W. § 31, 10 Note 1, [B. 92 (80); on both pass, see Bp. Lghtft. on Col. 1 c.].
    3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living: Acts 16:4. (Of all the precepts of the Christian religion: βεβαιωθῆναι ἐν τοῖς δόγμασιν τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῶν ἀποστόλων, Ignat. ad Magnes. 13, 1; of the precepts (‘sentences’ or tenets) of philosophers, in the later prof. writ.: Cic. acad. 2, 9, 27 de suis decretis, quae philosophi vocant dogmata.) [On the use of the word in general, see Bp. Lghtft. as above; (cf. ‘Teaching’ etc. 11, 3).]*
     
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  4. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    ...and so the scripture is in harmony:

    (CLV) Lk 16:17
    Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.
     
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  5. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I prefer 'taken away' rather than covered. Covered means the sins remain, like with the blood of bulls and goats. 1 John 3:5 says take away.
     
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  6. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    Good point! I edited the OP.
     
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  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says that they are also specifically covered (Romans 4:7).

    The fact that we are not under the law, dead to the law, and delivered from the law (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6) means not that we are not to be governed by it (see Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16; Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 3:21); but rather that it no longer has the power to condemn us; since we have been forgiven of all of our sins; and that therefore our relationship to the law has changed.
     
  8. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    Were sustaining YHWH's perfect Torah. Paul made this clear early on in this letter:

    Romans 3:31
    Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.
     
  9. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Paul's whole teaching to the Romans on the LAW is from chapter one through chapter eight. There are many who do not read the lesson in the whole 8-chapter context and come up with strange doctrines. This is why Peter said of Paul's teachings that some find them hard to understand.

    2 Peter 3:
    14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

    Hark, chapter 8, the conclusion, is the most important of the 8 chapters. It shows that Jesus freed us from sin, the reason for the LAW, and has introduced a new way (New Covenant) to keep the eternal law of God through love. As Jesus was sinless, He became the first of many brethren, Romans 8:29, by giving us His own Spirit to empower us. The Spirit has taken us out of the old nature, and we are "born again" of the Spirit.

    So as the Old Covenant was the Law, the New Covenant is the Spirit. Instead of the laws written on stone and having to be kept through our old sinful nature which is unnatural, the new way is the laws written on our hearts to obey supernaturally by His Spirit and our new nature. This is why the New Covenant surpasses the Old Covenant.
     
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  10. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    @HARK is this the point that you are trying to make across the forum ? that Christian believers whether they be gentiles or Jewish should be following the law?
     
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  11. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    This is the foremost precept; that we love YHWH with all our heart.

    It is written by at least three witnesses; that if we love him; we keep his commandments.

    I wouldn't say that this is THE point; but I would say that it is central to the points that I make.

    I don;t believe that believers follow Judaism. nor the ways of the world; so the Jews should leave Judaism behind; and the nations should leave their heathen ways behind; and come to be YHWH's people, Israel.

    We should keep his law not for salvation; but because we love him. Everything we do should be in love for him.
     
  12. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    So sheep don't by nature eat meat? :)
     
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  13. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    That is why God sent his Holy Spirit to dwell within believers. Not just as a seal of our redemption but also so that we can become more like Christ and less like the world. We do this in a personal relationship with him. He becomes our help-meet our teacher, support, encourager our best friend our everything. We cannot do anything without the Holy Spirit's help. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
     
  14. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Amen..."as far as the east is from the west,
    so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I would only point out that it is the spirit of the law that we are to be obedient to and that we are no longer bound by the letter of it (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).
     
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  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Hark's Law.:cool:
     
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  17. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    (CLV) Mt 23:8
    "Now you may not be called `Rabbi,' for One is your Teacher, yet you all are brethren.

    (CLV) Mt 23:9
    And `father' you should not be calling one of you on the earth, for One is your Father, the heavenly.

    (CLV) Mt 23:10
    Nor yet may you be called preceptors, for One is your Preceptor, the Christ.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Active Member

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    No, we are not to do what is right in our own eyes. That is why YHWH wrote it down for us.
     
  19. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Bro... the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. It encumpasses the Godhead. The Kingdom of heaven is within you and is also a place.
     
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  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    even the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
     
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