What Do You Think Would Have Happened If...

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blessedhope

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And According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
 

OzSpen

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Angelina said:
Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???
Angelina,

It would be impossible for me to imagine such as situation as I only know this world from the perspective of sinful consequences chosen by Adam and Eve.

In addition, in the sovereign plan of God, what we have today is what God knew would happen or intended to happen.

If we were to remain in Eden, what would happen to the rest of our universe? Or, would all of the universe be Eden?

It was never meant to happen.

Blessings from across the Tasman,
Oz
 
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mjrhealth

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We would have never understood Gods love if that was to happen. So much more to God than people see,

Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
 

epostle1

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Angelina said:
Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???
Yes, we would all be in a state of sanctifying grace, enjoying fellowship with God as his sons and daughters, and no suffering or diseases.
And there would be no need for a savior.
 

OzSpen

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kepha31 said:
Yes, we would all be in a state of sanctifying grace, enjoying fellowship with God as his sons and daughters, and no suffering or diseases.
And there would be no need for a savior.
God, in his sovereignty, determined that was not to be. So this is a pointless hypothetical.
 

Stranger

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Angelina said:
Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???
I would say, yes. If Adam and Eve had not sinned we would still be in Eden. Or, at least a world that would be characterized as Eden.

But...is that what God wanted?

Stranger
 

OzSpen

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Stranger said:
I would say, yes. If Adam and Eve had not sinned we would still be in Eden. Or, at least a world that would be characterized as Eden.

But...is that what God wanted?

Stranger
Stranger,

Do you know what an argument from silence is? It's a logical fallacy. We have no evidence for discussing such a proposition from Scripture, to my knowledge. Do you know of any place in Scripture where God tells us what would have happened if the first parents had not sinned?

Oz
 

Angelina

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Does that make my proposition invalid Oz? Did God create us in a vacuum or did he cause us to question things around us? Perhaps we would not even question such things if the fall had not have happened? :huh: Perhaps science would not exist if fallen man did not question how he got here?...IDK
 

Stranger

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OzSpen said:
Stranger,

Do you know what an argument from silence is? It's a logical fallacy. We have no evidence for discussing such a proposition from Scripture, to my knowledge. Do you know of any place in Scripture where God tells us what would have happened if the first parents had not sinned?

Oz
Well, God created the Garden of Eden. He placed man there. He created Adam and Eve with the ablity to procreate, which speaks to future generations. He placed the Tree of Life there. All of this prior to the fall.

After the fall, God drove them out of the Garden and placed angels and a flaming sword to guard anyone from eating of the tree of life. If Adam and Eve had eaten of it they would have lived forever. Gen.3:22-24

So, it appears to me that God prepared a place for man to live forever.

Stranger
 

Peccator

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I would think it would be like in Revelation 21:

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 

OzSpen

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Angelina said:
Does that make my proposition invalid Oz? Did God create us in a vacuum or did he cause us to question things around us? Perhaps we would not even question such things if the fall had not have happened? :huh: Perhaps science would not exist if fallen man did not question how he got here?...IDK
Angelina,

Your OP was 'What do you think would have happened if ... Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???'

I do not consider we can answer that question as God has not provided the information. It's fallacious reasoning in arguing from silence.

Your proposition is speculative and we don't have information to answer from Scripture.

When you say, 'Did God create us in a vacuum', what do you mean? I think the better question is: Did God create human beings who had the freedom of choice? That answer to that is: Yes he did because Adam had the God-given ability to choose how they would obey this choice: '16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” (Gen 2:16-17 ESV).

What did Adam do with this free choice? 'So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate' (Gen 3:6 ESV).

Your 'perhaps' are arguing from silence or speculation.

This we know: God made rational human beings who can read, communicate, write, talk and debate using their rational abilities. How do we know? God provided us with Scripture for us to read and comprehend. That would not be possible for irrational beings.

Thank you for your penetrating questions.

Blessings from across the Tasman,
Oz
 

OzSpen

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Stranger said:
Well, God created the Garden of Eden. He placed man there. He created Adam and Eve with the ablity to procreate, which speaks to future generations. He placed the Tree of Life there. All of this prior to the fall.

After the fall, God drove them out of the Garden and placed angels and a flaming sword to guard anyone from eating of the tree of life. If Adam and Eve had eaten of it they would have lived forever. Gen.3:22-24

So, it appears to me that God prepared a place for man to live forever.

Stranger
Stranger,

You say that God placed the Tree of Life in the Garden. Yes, there is 'the tree of life', but there also is 'the tree of the knowledge of good and evil' in the first place (Gen 2:9 ESV).

I don't think Gen 3:22-24 (ESV) proves what you want it to prove. We know from the rest of Scripture that human beings will live forever in Gehenna (for unbelievers - Mark 9:43 (ESV) - and in heaven/paradise for believers - John 14:1-6 (ESV).

Yes, God prepared a place for all people to live forever:
  • The damned in Gehenna (Matt 25:46 ESV); and
  • The believers in Paradise, experiencing eternal life (Luke 23:46 ESV; Matt 24:46 ESV).
Oz
 

tom55

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OzSpen said:
Stranger,

Do you know what an argument from silence is? It's a logical fallacy. We have no evidence for discussing such a proposition from Scripture, to my knowledge. Do you know of any place in Scripture where God tells us what would have happened if the first parents had not sinned?

Oz
Scripture does not give us a list of books that are to be in the Bible. How do we know we have the right books in the Bible? Scripture is silent about it <_<
 

tom55

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Angelina said:
Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???
Sin is a moral evil.

If they did not sin there would be no moral evil and we would still be in Eden!!
 

Stranger

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OzSpen said:
Stranger,

You say that God placed the Tree of Life in the Garden. Yes, there is 'the tree of life', but there also is 'the tree of the knowledge of good and evil' in the first place (Gen 2:9 ESV).

I don't think Gen 3:22-24 (ESV) proves what you want it to prove. We know from the rest of Scripture that human beings will live forever in Gehenna (for unbelievers - Mark 9:43 (ESV) - and in heaven/paradise for believers - John 14:1-6 (ESV).

Yes, God prepared a place for all people to live forever:
  • The damned in Gehenna (Matt 25:46 ESV); and
  • The believers in Paradise, experiencing eternal life (Luke 23:46 ESV; Matt 24:46 ESV).
Oz
Indeed, God prepared a place for all to live forever. The first place was Eden. Had man not sinned, There would have been no reason to be thrown out. Of course it's speculation. But it is speculation based on what has been revealed in Scripture.

Nothing wrong with that.

Stranger
 

Angelina

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Your OP was 'What do you think would have happened if ... Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???'
I do not consider we can answer that question as God has not provided the information. It's fallacious reasoning in arguing from silence.
Your proposition is speculative and we don't have information to answer from Scripture.
Oz, I doubt God would be angry if such questions are asked because it opens doors to further investigation however, you have a choice to opt out of this discussion if you so wish... ^_^
 

Dan57

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Angelina said:
Adam and Eve did not sin... :embarrassed-smiley53: would we still be in Eden???
Yes, everyone would be in Eden until someone sinned.. No, we would have all been kicked out because we've all sinned. Even if Adam didn't screw-up. you and I have.
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12).