What is a Cult?

[CoreIssue]

It is shocking to see people on this board saying if you claim Christ your Christian. Or if you embrace a salvation message from groups simply because they been around a long time, claim it is from Christ or redefine words to make it work.

So the valid question is what is a cult?

Christ warns us against false Christs, saying many will come and claim to be him. And yet we still see people claiming it is sufficient just to say they believe in Christ, even if it conflicts with the Bible.

The Bible says Christ is the only way to salvation, yet we have groups preaching salvation by works and so-called elect who can forgive your sins in the name of Christ.

Or they have a different god altogether.

How can someone be saved and be a true Christian if they violate these most basic requirements?

Remember, anyone who seeks God the Holy Spirit will lead them to him.

What say you?

 

[Willie T]

I think many of us have seized upon dozens of things Christ never said were associated with Salvation. For many of us it seems to be, Believe in Christ, AND also...…..

 

[CoreIssue]

I think many of us have seized upon dozens of things Christ never said were associated with Salvation. For many of us it seems to be, Believe in Christ, AND also...…..

I go with repentance by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (of the Bible).

Unfortunately many do not understand grace means a total and unearnable gift.

 

[Mayflower]

Good chart from a college group I was a part of. A lot of my friends and family called it a cult, but though I felt I started to err on the side of legalism, I really got to study the Bible and learn from here.

http://www.campuschristians.info/reading-library/cults-chart-comparison/

 

[Mayflower]

This article is good too. Here is the link and a portion of it:

http://www.campuschristians.info/reading-library/the-marks-of-a-cult/

To be classified as a cult, not all of the following characteristics have to be present, but in most cases, all of them will be:

1. Extrabiblical Authority

2. Works Salvation/Legalism

3. No Assurance of Salvation

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception

6. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation

7. Defective Christology

8. Defective “Nature of Man”

9. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention

10. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution
-----

I think it is a good topic, because it is easy to be deceived. I can be pretty curious. It sometimes works against me, but we need to measure everything by the Word. Anyway, what do y'all think of this? Do y'all agree?

 

[Mayflower]

I honestly am unsure now about assurance of salvation as a cult trait. I do believe in eternal security, that we cannot lose our salvation and it is by faith alone. But having to believe in assurance of salvation also would be another condition for salvation, rather then to just believing in Christ. I believe there are genuine Christians who believe in Christ, but can't be used as much by the Holy Spirit, because they live in fear of losing their salvation.

Edit: I realize this is a cult trait. I was just thinking on the teachings of this group I think. But yeh, there is no assurance of salvation in cults.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Biblical definition of a "Christian" is a disciple of Christ.

Salvation comes through faith in Christ. It's not "faith in Christ + passing a theology test". It's not "faith in Christ + setting on a certain group's pews". It's not "faith in Christ + not setting on a certain group's pews". It's about that individual person having faith in Christ.

We will only see Christ's light in each individual's hearts. Labeling/stereotyping someone based on something like the pews they sit on, the color of their skin, or other external things is not what Christ does. It is not what we, being His disciples, should do and instead by repented of.

The "counter cult" movement is one that thrives off of this un-Christ-like external judgement, adding other requirements to salvation, and discouraging people from seeking truth from real sources (sitting down and talking to individuals and seeing their light of Christ). I'm a person who believes deeply in seeing the good in every school of thought (even while acknowledging the bad), but the "counter cult" movement... I have seen so much un-Christ-like things done and preached in the name of "defending Christianity". It makes me greatly sad.

But, to end on a positive note, I will say that I have seen many many true Christians whom are true disciples of Christ, sitting on a wide variety of pews. They love Christ, they celebrate in Him, they celebrate with all who celebrate, the rejoice in seeing truth, and so many good qualities of Him. And these true disciples of Christ greatly out number the blind-haters, and each (being fueled by Christ) stands much strong than the others. They, and seeing Christ in them, cause my heart to rejoice.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Biblical definition of a "Christian" is a disciple of Christ.

Salvation comes through faith in Christ. It's not "faith in Christ + passing a theology test". It's not "faith in Christ + setting on a certain group's pews". It's not "faith in Christ + not setting on a certain group's pews". It's about that individual person having faith in Christ.

We will only see Christ's light in each individual's hearts. Labeling/stereotyping someone based on something like the pews they sit on, the color of their skin, or other external things is not what Christ does. It is not what we, being His disciples, should do and instead by repented of.

The "counter cult" movement is one that thrives off of this un-Christ-like external judgement, adding other requirements to salvation, and discouraging people from seeking truth from real sources (sitting down and talking to individuals and seeing their light of Christ). I'm a person who believes deeply in seeing the good in every school of thought (even while acknowledging the bad), but the "counter cult" movement... I have seen so much un-Christ-like things done and preached in the name of "defending Christianity". It makes me greatly sad.

But, to end on a positive note, I will say that I have seen many many true Christians whom are true disciples of Christ, sitting on a wide variety of pews. They love Christ, they celebrate in Him, they celebrate with all who celebrate, the rejoice in seeing truth, and so many good qualities of Him. And these true disciples of Christ greatly out number the blind-haters, and each (being fueled by Christ) stands much strong than the others. They, and seeing Christ in them, cause my heart to rejoice.

Follower of Christ is more accurate I believe.

Satan has faith in the existence of Christ. So the demons. So the many cults.

So just same faith alone is not complete.

 

[CoreIssue]

Follower of Christ is more accurate I believe.

Satan has faith in the existence of Christ. So the demons. So do many cults.

They also want to find Christ in their image. Satan's antichrist. Cults who teach a different Christ than the Bible.

So just faith alone is not complete.

 

[Harvest 1874]

This article is good too. Here is the link and a portion of it:

http://www.campuschristians.info/reading-library/the-marks-of-a-cult/

To be classified as a cult, not all of the following characteristics have to be present, but in most cases, all of them will be:

1. Extrabiblical Authority

2. Works Salvation/Legalism

3. No Assurance of Salvation

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception

6. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation

7. Defective Christology

8. Defective “Nature of Man”

9. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention

10. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution
-----

I think it is a good topic, because it is easy to be deceived. I can be pretty curious. It sometimes works against me, but we need to measure everything by the Word. Anyway, what do y'all think of this? Do y'all agree?

By these standards the professing church as a whole is a cult as they have pretty much exhibited every one of these characteristics in one fashion or another, little wonder the Lord designates it, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth.

 

[Mayflower]

Here is what the dictionary describes one as...

cult
/kəlt/
noun

1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
   "the cult of St. Olaf"
   • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
     "a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
     synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction
     "a religious cult"
   • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
     "a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
     synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of
     "the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"

 

[Harvest 1874]

But, to end on a positive note, I will say that I have seen many many true Christians whom are true disciples of Christ, sitting on a wide variety of pews. They love Christ, they celebrate in Him, they celebrate with all who celebrate, the rejoice in seeing truth, and so many good qualities of Him. And these true disciples of Christ greatly out number the blind-haters, and each (being fueled by Christ) stands much strong than the others. They, and seeing Christ in them, cause my heart to rejoice.

With this last we are in full agreement, the very fact that God is presently calling his people out of Babylon implies that some of his true children are or have been at one time entangled in one or another of the various sects of Christendom. When he states "come out of her my people", we must assume that the "my people" being spoken of are his spirit begotten children, and no one can be begotten of the Lord's spirit without a true faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, and having fully surrendered themselves to him.

As for the suggestion that the "true disciples of Christ greatly out number the blind-haters", would that it were true my sister, but alas as the Lord so indicated by the end of the age the "tares" would vastly out-number the "wheat" in the professing church.

But we have come to end of the age and to the harvest, and as such the reapers are even now busy separating the wheat (the true followers of Christ begotten by the truth) from the tares (false or nominal Christians begotten by errors) in preparation for the fire (trouble) of the great day.

 

[Mayflower]

The Biblical definition of a "Christian" is a disciple of Christ.

Salvation comes through faith in Christ. It's not "faith in Christ + passing a theology test". It's not "faith in Christ + setting on a certain group's pews". It's not "faith in Christ + not setting on a certain group's pews". It's about that individual person having faith in Christ.

We will only see Christ's light in each individual's hearts. Labeling/stereotyping someone based on something like the pews they sit on, the color of their skin, or other external things is not what Christ does. It is not what we, being His disciples, should do and instead by repented of.

The "counter cult" movement is one that thrives off of this un-Christ-like external judgement, adding other requirements to salvation, and discouraging people from seeking truth from real sources (sitting down and talking to individuals and seeing their light of Christ). I'm a person who believes deeply in seeing the good in every school of thought (even while acknowledging the bad), but the "counter cult" movement... I have seen so much un-Christ-like things done and preached in the name of "defending Christianity". It makes me greatly sad.

But, to end on a positive note, I will say that I have seen many many true Christians whom are true disciples of Christ, sitting on a wide variety of pews. They love Christ, they celebrate in Him, they celebrate with all who celebrate, the rejoice in seeing truth, and so many good qualities of Him. And these true disciples of Christ greatly out number the blind-haters, and each (being fueled by Christ) stands much strong than the others. They, and seeing Christ in them, cause my heart to rejoice.

I never heard of the counter-cult movement, but I think it is important to be aware of the differences in the different schools of thought, whether labeled "cult" or "Christian +"

Personally, I believe the only good is Truth. And the fact that there are deceptions that can cost a person's soul, such as Buddism that Christ is not even part of, is not good.

I think the main thing is if someone has confusion in their belief system, they need to question it and do something different, because confusion is from the Enemy and not of God.

 

[Mayflower]

With this last we are in full agreement, the very fact that God is presently calling his people out of Babylon implies that some of his true children are or have been at one time entangled in one or another of the various sects of Christendom. When he states "come out of her my people", we must assume that the "my people" being spoken of are his spirit begotten children, and no one can be begotten of the Lord's spirit without a true faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, and having fully surrendered themselves to him.

As for the suggestion that the "true disciples of Christ greatly out number the blind-haters", would that it were true my sister, but alas as the Lord so indicated by the end of the age the "tares" would vastly out-number the "wheat" in the professing church.

But we have come to end of the age and to the harvest, and as such the reapers are even now busy separating the wheat (the true followers of Christ begotten by the truth) from the tares (false or nominal Christians begotten by errors) in preparation for the fire (trouble) of the great day.

I had a scary dream one time that I was in a great crowd of people and I walked through it to see a very good spiritual mentor of mine bowing down at this man's feet and kissing his ring. He put a necklace on her neck and in my mind I heard anti-christ. But what bothered me was I bowed down too and kissed his ring, but I wasn't expecting him to put a necklace on my neck. And it was very heavy. I couldn't take it off. And I woke up. @Hidden In Him had told me this scripture "come out of her my people" That was awhile back, I don't remember everything he said about it, but this made me think about that. That was pretty shaking.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I never heard of the counter-cult movement

The website you linked is one such example of it. It adds a LOT more required of salvation besides having faith in Christ and posts tons of false information about other groups, and is label-centric rather than looking on the heart.

I think it is important to be aware of the differences in the different schools of thought

On this, I totally agree with you. But I would advocate learning by going up to a person and saying "tell me about your faith in Christ and love of Him". Get facts from that person directly and listen to what they say.

Personally, I believe the only good is Truth. And the fact that there are deceptions that can cost a person's soul, such as Buddism that Christ is not even part of, is not good.

Half agreed. Yes knowledge of Truth is important. Super incredibly important. But we are not saved by passing a theology test.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Biblical definition of a "Christian" is a disciple of Christ.

Salvation comes through faith in Christ. It's not "faith in Christ + passing a theology test". It's not "faith in Christ + setting on a certain group's pews". It's not "faith in Christ + not setting on a certain group's pews". It's about that individual person having faith in Christ.

You forgot the key here. Faith in which Christ? The biblical Christ, the Jehovah witnesses Christ? The Mormon Christ?

We will only see Christ's light in each individual's hearts.

The heart issue. Very big in Mormonism.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Sam 16:7

 

[Mayflower]

The website you linked is one such example of it. It adds a LOT more required of salvation besides having faith in Christ and posts tons of false information about other groups, and is label-centric rather than looking on the heart.

On this, I totally agree with you. But I would advocate learning by going up to a person and saying "tell me about your faith in Christ and love of Him". Get facts from that person directly and listen to what they say.

Half agreed. Yes knowledge of Truth is important. Super incredibly important. But we are not saved by passing a theology test.

I question a lot now about what I was learning then. Many of my family and friends I told some of the teachings to labeled it a cult. I do not believe this. But looking back, I didn't like myself then. Pointing out flaws in other's beliefs was not a good starting point in sharing the love of Christ. I lived and learned that for sure.

But now there is a balance in standing firm in what I believe when challenged and not being overtaken by confusion. It is why I study, but I am open minded too, which backfires a lot.

It is hard to know how to study to "defend" what I believe. It is why I like to read on this forum, even though I get lost quite a bit.

 

[farouk]

I question a lot now about what I was learning then. Many of my family and friends I told some of the teachings to labeled it a cult. I do not believe this. But looking back, I didn't like myself then. Pointing out flaws in other's beliefs was not a good starting point in sharing the love of Christ. I lived and learned that for sure.

But now there is a balance in standing firm in what I believe when challenged and not being overtaken by confusion. It is why I study, but I am open minded too, which backfires a lot.

It is hard to know how to study to "defend" what I believe. It is why I like to read on this forum, even though I get lost quite a bit.

In the end, keeping sound about Biblical views of the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ - and enjoying fellowship with like-minded Christians - is a good way to avoid cultish thinking.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It is hard to know how to study to "defend" what I believe. It is why I like to read on this forum, even though I get lost quite a bit.

I don't think such debating "defense" is necessary, and so often by "defending" we turn into Peter cutting off Malcus' ear.

Rather, everyone is at one point going to be a babe in Christ that does not have the words to express what/why they believe. That's ok-- we all start off as babes and their is nothing wrong with a babe or saying "I don't know". Build up your faith and knowledge one step at a time, and do not remotely feel bad for not knowing every subject perfectness.