What is an Oracle?

[bbyrd009]

Bible Search: oracle

what is the counterfeit?

 

[bbyrd009]

showing in New Posts yet?

 

[aspen]

Interesting thread....looking forward to comments

 

[Helen]

showing in New Posts yet?

Yes it just showed up...got it...but haven't read your like yet.
Watching this place and will read link...

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, of course we will all go find the religious definition first, but contemplate that if ppl who confess I Have To are functioning unawares under Law then Oracles and their counterfeits are IDed much the same way; iow don't go expecting anyone to own up to it lol.

What is worse, Oracles or counterfeits, i wonder?
Why would Oracles be...treated like they are in the Book?

 

[bbyrd009]

or·a·cle
ˈôrək(ə)l/
noun

1. 1.
   a priest or priestess acting as a medium through whom advice or prophecy was sought from the gods in classical antiquity.
   • 
     
     
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2. 2.
   a response or message given by an oracle, typically one that is ambiguous or obscure.

these are somewhat at odds with the Scriptural flavor of the term, seems to me
i have no idea where this is going btw
prolly trying to justify the way i have recently been using oracle lol
the lips of a king speak as an oracle
like that

 

[bbyrd009]

so, i dunno about you guys, but i have this idea of Oracle in my mind as like a Gift or something, like something someone might even aspire to be...ha, i guess i prolly like to think of myself as an Oracle, i'm like prolly definition number 2 up there in my mind lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Search: oracle

what is the counterfeit?

i see at least 3 definitions of Oracle in the link?

so, where i'm at so far is, there are Scriptural Oracles that seem to be good/acceptable, and then there are like pagan oracles who gaze into crystal balls, priests acting as mediums, but practically speaking imo i see comparisons with ppl who Issue Edicts in their speech, and cannot practically be...who don't really ever have conversations, you don't converse with an oracle, you only listen, nobody tells oracles anything iow. I also see parallels to eschatologists that strike me as obvious, but really those are so obvious i am more interested in the subtle ones, the ones we maybe don't ID irl

 

[bbyrd009]

i pursue this bc it seems that sheep without a shepherd (us) naturally seek an "oracle" to guide them, right, we want someone to tell us, and from there we go to wanting to be the person being looked up to for an answer, right, we don't really seek opinions or perspectives, even if we say we do

 

[amadeus]

The good and the bad definition? What does God mean?

"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Rom 3:1-2

Seems like a good thing to have the oracles of God committed to you.

"As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." I Peter 4:10-11

There is a right way to use the gift and a wrong way:

"And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak." Numb 22:7

[7081= a lot; also divination (including its fee),[U] oracle:[/U] - (reward of) divination, divine sentence, witchcraft.]

"And they drew out the staves of the ark, that the ends of the staves were seen from the ark before the oracle; but they were not seen without. And there it is unto this day." II Chron 5:9

[1687= From H1696 (apparently in the sense of [COLOR=#0000ff]oracle[/COLOR]); the shrine or innermost part of the sanctuary: - oracle.]

Every thing must be done according to God's order, but what exactly is that?

 

[bbyrd009]

Seems like a good thing to have the oracles of God committed to you.

these are a diff def of oracle than oracle as a person though, i guess, ya

 

[amadeus]

these are a diff def of oracle than oracle as a person though, i guess, ya

One question that comes to my mind, is, whether the person is the gift or simply has the gift? If for example we say Paul is an apostle of Christ, is it that he is a different person as a result of Christ or effectively the same person with the responsibility of the gift?

In this case we might say that the gift would be the oracles, or the person would be the oracle.

 

[bbyrd009]

One question that comes to my mind, is, whether the person is the gift or simply has the gift? If for example we say Paul is an apostle of Christ, is it that he is a different person as a result of Christ or effectively the same person with the responsibility of the gift?

In this case we might say that the gift would be the oracles, or the person would be the oracle.

yes, there was an oracle at Delphi, but there are oracles written by prophets, too. So at least two definitions

 

[amadeus]

yes, there was an oracle at Delphi, but there are oracles written by prophets, too. So at least two definitions

And at least two types of oracles within each of those 2 definitions: Those who are of God and those who are of mammon.

 

[bbyrd009]

And at least two types of oracles within each of those 2 definitions: Those who are of God and those who are of mammon.

yes, so we're up to four now. Hard to understand why Cayce was not doing God's will, but his own

 

[amadeus]

yes, so we're up to four now. Hard to understand why Cayce was not doing God's will, but his own

I cannot help you on that. I have only just heard of him...

 

[bbyrd009]

I cannot help you on that. I have only just heard of him...

Edgar Cayce? really? hmm. A real miracle-healer of the physical, surely loved God, surely going the way of Judas. My guess is he was possessed, and at the same time i really like the guy, ok, so this is going to be a weird convo i guess lol. He asked for the "gift" of healing, and he got it, but there are other dimensions to the story. I guess google could tell you better than me
why is Edgar Cayce considered to be bad by some people? - Google Search

can't find any good hits on page1, i am assuming, from the burden of evidence, that he was not a "fraud" at all, ppl still report healings from his diagnoses today!

 

[amadeus]

Edgar Cayce? really? hmm. A real miracle-healer of the physical, surely loved God, surely going the way of Judas. My guess is he was possessed, and at the same time i really like the guy, ok, so this is going to be a weird convo i guess lol. He asked for the "gift" of healing, and he got it, but there are other dimensions to the story. I guess google could tell you better than me
why is Edgar Cayce considered to be bad by some people? - Google Search

can't find any good hits on page1, i am assuming, from the burden of evidence, that he was not a "fraud" at all, ppl still report healings from his diagnoses today!

I read through the biography on Wikipedia quickly and found it interesting. I doubt that it was quackery as some wanted to say. Rather he had a gift [or a curse] which no one really understood including himself. His own beliefs and those of others around him likely affected in a measure just how the gift operated. Strong church beliefs and traditions of others of his day undoubtedly affected how well he was or was not accepted and treated.

Too many today, or even on this forum, are too strong on the "my way or the highway" concept. If stoning were allowed not only Cayce but some us might have to start dodging.

I would be very slow to fully endorse what he did as OK, but neither could I condemn it based on what I read. What do we know?

 

[Helen]

I have watched this from time to time... but not seeing too much here??

I know that oracle's are mentioned in the OT
And in the NT the scriptures are spoken as the "living oracle's of God"
Hebrews 4:12 quickening power Acts 7:38
Other than that...I have no clue!! lol

 

[bbyrd009]

I have watched this from time to time... but not seeing too much here??

I know that oracle's are mentioned in the OT
And in the NT the scriptures are spoken as the "living oracle's of God"
Hebrews 4:12 quickening power Acts 7:38
Other than that...I have no clue!! lol

well, so we have that def of oracle, and then we have "oracle at delphi," right; two diff definitions of "oracle," iow. Oracles can be given, or oracles can also be sought, as E Cayce was, or the oracle at delphi. Leaving aside the real oracles for now, and looking at the oracles that we seek, the cultic ones, we might also observe further division there--at least maybe, i'm not sure here--but it seems like we have real and false oracles again--which i don't really get--but the oracle at delphi, and Cayce, seem to have been genuine enough.

but part of the story about these kinds of (cult) oracles seems to have gotten lost, the part where they give you truth, but it is inevitably useless or impertinent to the seeker's purposes, being as how those are generally from impure desires. Cayce is not really in this category, ppl did not go to him for predictions, but they did go for physical healing of self-inflicted ailments, so he is a corollary here, but nevermind him for now, it is more the reflection that these might be considered "truthful" oracles--even though they are possessed--whereas we can witness many "false" oracles now, that state...well, basically whatever belief they are caught up in as "truth," and are revealed in their refusal to address Scriptures that contest their position, and the making of positional statements as truth, "this is that, and that is this" type stuff, that they cannot provide a Scripture for; a "false" oracle, to my mind at least

and again--like Cayce--these ppl are not necessarily making predictions (although they have no prob doing that too, i guess), but like to pretend they are stating some absolute truth, "Jesus is God, Jesus must be worshipped" is the current one i guess, and the arg will get no where bc ppl will just split hairs over the definition of "worship" at some point, and Bowing Down While Looking Up--our current def--will be expanded to a more...what, complete definition, to include the aspect of "follow," and so the Jesus-Lookers will still get to hide in that, and proclaim that "worship" of Jesus is acceptable, when picking up your cross and "following" Christ is the only thing that will save one.

many will cry "Lord, Lord," or the several vv that make explicit that Jesus is not to be worshipped, these will not even be acknowledged, see, you will be able to witness that today, where i laid some bait out; if any of the posts are even acknowledged i will be surprised, and if they are acknowledged at all it will be mjr style, so they can immediately be dismissed and talked around iow, not really confronted; like trying to have a convo with Stranger or BoL. What is the point.