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What Is Meant By....time No Longer?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by whirlwind, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Revelation 10:1-4 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire; And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, " Seal up those thing which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

    10:5-7 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by Him That liveth for ever and ever, Who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be TIME NO LONGER: But in the DAYS OF the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall BEGIN to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.


    He declares the mystery of God to His prophets in the last days, which are the days of the voice of the seventh angel and those prophets are the seven thunders that speak that mystery when they "uttered their voices." However, what they are to speak was not to be written by John. The mystery may be written but not the revelation of the mystery for that is sealed. Why? Because "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" [Ecc.3:1] The revelation of the mystery is withheld until the last days, until the time of latter rain [Joel 2:23], which is when the Holy Spirit reveals (declares) that mystery to His prophets, the seven thunders and they then speak that mystery to all that will hear...or see (understand.)

    But, what is meant by "time no longer?" There is the millennium, a written, thousand year period of time and even if that is symbolic it is still....a length of time. Is it the "times of the gentiles" or the time of Satan's tribulation, the time of this present age....what is the time that should be no longer? :huh:

    The following passage from Job gives us the same meaning of time as in [Revelation 10:6] above. The concordance tells us it is......"The duration of the world. The measure of the continuance of anything."​

    Job 22:15-17 Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood: Which said unto GOD, 'Depart from us:' and what can the ALMIGHTY do for them?

    I believe the answer to what time should be no longer is found in Daniel. Notice the similarites in the "man clothed in linen" and the seventh angel in Revelation. ​

    Daniel 12:6-8 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

    The end of the time of scattering the power of the holy people shall be finished! ​

    12:9-12 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    The time of the end, which is the time of Satan's tribulation, when the "wicked do wickedly," when he will "scatter the power of the holy people," I believe, is the time that shall be no longer. To Daniel the words were sealed....to John, he was instructed to not write the mystery of the words but that the understanding was to be sealed.....until the time of the end.​
     
  2. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Looking for clues at the scene of the crime,......

    Note in Daniel there are two individuals on either side of the bank, but one on the waters of the river ( let's see, who can walk on water, I have the notes somewhere?).......Here we have someone holding up their right and left hand towards heaven. He talks about times, time and a half, you know 3-1/2 years or 1260 days. Problem is, 3-1/2 years later it did not happen, the plot thickens! Could it be that the 1260 is also a subject that should be dealt with?

    ....Well the guy in Rev 10:5 only held up his RIGHT hand and swear by........

    [sup]5[/sup]And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

    [sup]6[/sup]And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:




    Or no more delay in judgment....

    But what are these things in heaven, earth and sea?........why mention this?

    Ahh, here it is....

    [sup]2[/sup]And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

    Birds, fish, land animals......kind of covers it all don't ya think.

    But wait:

    [sup]12[/sup]And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

    [sup]13[/sup]I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

    [sup]14[/sup]And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

    [sup]15[/sup]And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

    [sup]16[/sup]And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.


    Rainbow, where did I see that before?

    Oh, here:

    [sup]1[/sup]And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

    [sup]2[/sup]And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,





    So the appearance of this angel ( with the rainbow) is God remembering a certain covenant, and that's in these end days....

    And his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the earth is a judgment summons to the earth, that it is about to be reclaimed, so this happens prior to the very end.







    Oh, by the way....

    [sup]28[/sup]And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.

    [sup]29[/sup]And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

    There is that 3-1/2 again.......350 years ( what's going on here?)




    Irish


    Nice post Whirlwind!
     
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  3. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Thank you Irish :)

    You've given me a great deal to think about. One thing that really caught my eye was Noah living 350 years AFTER the flood. That doesn't compute to me because it seems that the 3 1/2 years is during the flood (Satan's tribulation) ....not after.

    If types stay true then I'm not understanding this.
     
  4. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Remember the flood cast out of the serpents mouth was after the women (Israel), it failed. Then the dragon went after the remnant of her seed, the elect of Israel; and brings up the beast,....now this is where the 1260 enters in, in an esoteric way. Now many take one phase of the flood and call it the months of revelation. The problem here is, that the flood lasted one year and ten days, it was rising for five months only. Noah didn't get out of the Ark until long after the five months.


    Irish
     
  5. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    There are two floods. One from the serpent's mouth and one from the dragon's.

    Revelation 12:15-17 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

    It appears to me that the flood (of lies) from the serpent continues to deluge the woman (Israel/church) till the end. The dragon's lies are taken in by the earth (righteous but misled people). How does this help the woman? Perhaps it is a help to the church as the lies from the dragon are the obvious things we, as believers in Christ, scoff at. Hinduism, Islam, Buddism, etc. The earth swallows those lies but not the woman/church/Israel and for this reason....the dragon is wroth with her.

    The lies from the serpent's mouth continue to wash over the church....each Sunday at the pulpit they are spewed out. The very elect, the remnant of her seed, are away from that deception for they have His testimony. But they are those the dragon makes war with!

    Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    As far as......
    "now this is where the 1260 enters in, in an esoteric way. Now many take one phase of the flood and call it the months of revelation. The problem here is, that the flood lasted one year and ten days, it was rising for five months only. Noah didn't get out of the Ark until long after the five months. "​

    I still see the tribulation preceeding and continuing during our time in the ark....which is the 3 1/2 years (that has been shortened) and includes the five months of the actual "great" tribulation. After that the seventh trump ends it's sounding and....it's over. The Lord's day has arrived and we are in the millennium. Perhaps, "And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years," is telling us that Noah, a type for overcomers, lived after the 3 1/2 years (3,500 years) of tribulation. In other words...it could be read as....Noah (overcomers) live after the flood and that flood was/is/will be one of 3 1/2 years.
     
  6. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Hi Whirlwind,

    Funny thing about that number 3-1/2, have you ever noticed that the evil and adulterous generation is given three days:

    [sup]38[/sup]Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

    [sup]39[/sup]But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

    [sup]40[/sup]For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.




    And we are given to understand the 3-1/2, it also has to do with the mystery of the kingdom or the parable of the sower in Matt 13. Remember that it was not given to the masses, but he explained it further in private.







    Now concerning the flood, one thing to remember is in Rev 1:10 I believe, we are taken to another dispensation, and it continues from there. We are no longer talking about the dispensation of grace but of judgment. So to use the flood by way of application is fun to do, but by direct interpretation it has to be understood in its proper context, that of the next dispensation. The church of God is not seen in the judgments. So to put this in layman's terms, the flood is not a 2000 year event in which you can say since Paul until now the serpent is casting out water, it is a specific event to be properly placed in its dispensational area of time.


    Also consider that the flood may be more than just lies.....it is, but there is more:

    Rev 12:15
    carried away of the flood. 4216
    (Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)
    NT:4216 potamophoretos (pot-am-of-or'-ay-tos); from NT:4215 and a derivative of NT:5409; river-borne, i.e. overwhelmed by a stream: KJV - carried away of the flood.
    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
    NT:5409 phoreo (for-eh'-o); from NT:5411; to have a burden, i.e. (by analogy) to wear as clothing or a constant accompaniment: KJV - bear, wear.
    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.) NT:5411 phoros (for'-os); from NT:5342; a load (as borne), i.e. (figuratively) a tax (properly, an individual assessment on persons or property; whereas NT:5056 is usually a general toll on goods or travel): KJV - tribute.
    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


    Do you see property taxes here, have you considered what is happening now with the deficit that is unbelievable, who is going to pay? Remember that attack in the end has to do with the four hidden dynasties; economics being one of them. We may be further along than many realize.


    Gotta go,
    Irish
     
  7. write2witness

    write2witness New Member

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    What version of the bible did you quote that from? I have the NKJV and this is what it says for Revelations 10:5-7

    "The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets." (Revelation 10:5-7)

    I don't see anything about "TIME NO LONGER", but "delay" no longer.
     
  8. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Revelation 10:5-6 (King James Version)


    [sup]5[/sup]And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

    [sup]6[/sup]And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:




    Irish


     
  9. write2witness

    write2witness New Member

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    Sorry. I use the NKJV, but I checked the KJV and see it now. I'm quite sure it means the same thing, as in “there should be no delay.” Not that this is to be taken absolutely, as if at the sounding of the seventh trumpet all things were then to terminate, and the glorious epiphany - ἐπίφανεια epiphaneia (or manifestation of Jesus Christ) - was then to occur, who would put an end to all the afflictions of his church. (Vitringa, p. 432)
     
  10. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    cool....
     
  11. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Sorry Irish...I'm not seeing a connection between the 3 days and the parable of the sower....please connect the dots. :)


    As the church are the elect they are already judged so....I agree, they aren't seen in the judgments.

    I didn't see the flood as a 2000 year event. To me, it is a specific event....at the end of days, "when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child." The man child(ren) are the very elect, the saints, the witnesses, the first fruits born in the last generation......

    Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

    The many called is the church but the chosen few is the man child.....chosen for a specific purpose and that is to help the many called.



    Thank you Irish for bringing that up. I agree, the flood is indeed more than just lies and I will broaden my vision accordingly. I keep thinking that this financial turmoil is the deadly wound. If it is we are very far along! :eek:
     
  12. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Three days....

    This might take a while, do you have a Companion Bible?......
    We will be looking at structure.....


    Irish
     
  13. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Yes. :)
     
  14. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Ok,

    First some ground rules. There are rules for interpretation called the canons.

    Canon 1) The meaning of the words is to be gathered from the scope of the passage: not the scope from the words.

    Canon 2) The scope of the passage may be best discovered by it's structure.....(We will be dealing with this to a large degree here.)

    Now there are 12 canons, Bullingers book, How To Enjoy The Bible, is a good resource for these.

    Once you start using these you will read the Bible with a much greater efficiency. People who talk about 2 Tim 2:15 and yet are unaware of these would be greatly matured by the awareness of these rules.

    Ok, lets jump in the deep end of the pool here.
    Look on page 1336 of your Companion, on the side column you will see a structure. It will say 13:1-53, the overall subject is teaching. You will see a T2 as the structure heading and will also notice that this comes from a larger structure on page 1323. For future reference that larger structure on 1323 will put us squarely in the second period; The Proclamation of the King.

    So back to page 1336,....we are going to deal with T2 overall,.....but we see it is divided further into E1,E2,E3. These have to do with place. You can start to see that like members E1,....E2 etc. have a part in interpreting each other. Here it is easy and plane to see. Now for the sake of this discussion I would like to move to subset G and compare it to subset g (in Italics). You will see that bold G is dealing with the parable of the sower, now to get a much deeper understanding of this we would have to view subset g which is dealing with the parable of the Scribe (in a good sense). These are therefore connected in subject and are to be viewed together for the interpretation of the parable.........Does your head hurt yet :).

    What we see here is that only those who are instructed into the Kingdom truths are going to understand the parable of the sower.

    You can see how reading one verse after another like we normally do in english, we will totally miss the point of what is being said if we don't pay attention to the rules of engagement.

    Ok, now my head hurts..:)

    Irish
     
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  15. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    I'll agree to your rules but must tell you....I never paid any attention to the structure's given. :unsure:

    Oh Irish....this is waaaay toooo complicated for me. :blink: And yes....my head hurts. :lol: Are you able to simplify the connection of the parable with the 3 1/2 years? Gathering the meaning from the passage and not just individual words is necessary but it is the passage and words I need to see...not Bullinger's structure. "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it...." He didn't tell us we had to understand the structure. :lol: Maybe it's a right brain/left brain thing. I'll guess from your interest in structure that you do well in math too (I don't). :( :p
     
  16. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    I'll try a little different approach, for one thing this is not Bullingers structure, a few hundred years ago nobody had a clue as to subject,object, structure etc.. Then our Fathers structure was opened up to be understood. This was such evidence of divine authorship that there could be no denial. Let's look at this like an high school outline. now let's just say the parable of the sower has a direct connection to:


    Matthew 13:52 (King James Version)


    [sup]52[/sup]Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.




    Now these householders are to be gifted in the understanding of the proclamations ( something we may have to discuss further ) And all of this has to do with the sower. Didn't Christ say that if you don't understand this parable you won't understand the rest? So this is a good one to absorb. If you start by reading appendix 112 and 114, and then the bottom of page 1336, it will help you to see where we are going with this.




    Irish


     
  17. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Dear Irish.....if you don't get to the crux of this I'm going to go insane....please, please, please...spit it out.
     
  18. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Ok, but you'll miss all the scenery if we take the express route....:)

    You may have noticed we have talked about 3-1/2 centurys with Noah, time times and a half with Daniel, or 3-1/2 years, and also 3-1/2 days with the two witnesses....now the 3-1/2 is also 1260. Now in Rev 11 you have two witnesses that prophecy 1260, they are not just standing there for 1260 days, they are prophecying concerning something. Now without getting into that at this time we see a lot of 3-1/2 used concerning,......Noah,....Daniel watching the two on the bank of the river talking to the one on the waters,......and the two witnesses of the end days..........


    Now we also know that in the end days there will be the evil and adulterous generation, and the sign they recieve is Jonas; for he was three days and three nights in the whales belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.............You see that was already accomplished with Christ......no need for another, but wait within the same structure (sorry) we have a situation where an unclean spirit is gone out of a man,......etc.. Do we have a copy of Christ in the end days for this generation? And what he does is connected to three days. Now look at the side column for matt. 12 :45 for "the last state",...you wil see Rev. 13 mentioned as a reference. So this is in connection to the first beast......very important!


    So we have 3 days and we have 3-1/2 days. Many will be impressed with three days this time and not pay attention to the lesson of the 3-1/2.


    This is all dealing with Kingdoms, and ultimately that is what the parable of the sower is dealing with, for the two witnesses will prophecy this with something called the proclaimations......in which you will see to some degree in the side column of the parable of the sower. In the structure of the parable of the sower you will see the better stuff was taught in the house.......So I'll shut up now...:)

    There, I think we effectively skipped about 90% of the scenery,......:)


    Irish
     
  19. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Irish...I do love your personality! :lol: I enjoy scenery but there are times the interstate is called for. I appreciate you moving this down the road.


    My understanding of this is.....

    As His elect, we too are the son of man as well as sons of God. As He was in the earth for three days and three nights literally....we have been there three days (3,000 years) spiritually. I see the 3 1/2 days as the last 3,500 years...from the Exodus to 2009. Our time (if we are His very elect) in the wilderness is over (but not that of the woman). Three thousand years sleeping in the earth and the last five hundred years being awakened.....the time of the reformation.

    Now it is "after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." [Rev.11:11] I feel that event is going on NOW and we are very, very close to The Last Day. Folks must remember....He comes as a thief.

    I'm not yet certain what point you are making about "the kingdom," but as I believe we are "in the house" on forums such as these.....please share your insight. Only those that are supposed to hear/see/understand will be able to if it is their/our time.

    I also believe many here are in the kingdom right now...we have been illuminated and translated for we are His child that "was caught up unto God, and to His throne" [Rev.12:5] while in our flesh body. He walks in us, dwells in us, abides in us as we discuss these things and He loves to see it!

    Malachi 3:16-17 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name. And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewls; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. ​

    We are His own son....we are sons of God because we "serveth Him." So, as His witnesses, we are presently feeding the woman. The woman loves the Lord (she is in the house) but is misled for the deceiver is also feeding her.

    The "house" analogy is a good one. Consider....

    Mark 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

    If we are His watchman then we are taught by the Holy Spirit. Our duty is to take care of our house but....not to go back in and take anything being taught. We are to learn from the Spirit only and He can teach us through others that are Spirit filled.

    Anyway....that is what I see in the lesson of the 3 1/2 days and the kingdom but I'm open to correction or further revelation from another child of God. :)
     
  20. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Study to show yourself approved,.........I hope we all have that! :) Thanks for your reply.

    Irish
     
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