What is the difference between vengeance and justice?

[Soverign Grace]

I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for? Are we still to forgive or should we seek to have them held accountable? Since someone is corrupted - even if a Christian - should we keep that individual out of our lives, so that they cannot inflict further damage, yet in our hearts forgive? Or does God expect us to welcome that individual with open arms?

I've struggled with this and pastors seem all over the place with it, and I wondered if anyone had ever really worked it out in their own minds/ spirits as to where the lines were drawn. Have you had personal experience with this - if so, how have you handled it?

 

[Deborah_]

We are always to forgive, in the sense that we are not to bear grudges or nurse bitterness in our hearts.

But the one who sins must repent if they are to receive our forgiveness and have their relationship with us restored.

So yes... accountability is important. If they have committed a criminal offence, the police and justice system will need to be involved. But if they are never held to account in this life, they will have to answer for it on Judgement Day.

I think it's difficult to lay down a general rule. So much depends on the particular circumstances of the case and the severity of the offence.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for? Are we still to forgive or should we seek to have them held accountable? Since someone is corrupted - even if a Christian - should we keep that individual out of our lives, so that they cannot inflict further damage, yet in our hearts forgive? Or does God expect us to welcome that individual with open arms?

Ah, you gave options, good. So following your lead..i say no question, 'always' forgive...be kind..but, keep them at arms length.

And @Deborah...when I say always forgive...there is no need for them to repent.
They can do the same stupid, hurtful thing 70 x7...is what I mean.
Sometimes ya can't change stupid...so forgive.
Let the Lord take care of him. Ha!
(Since a hardened heart towards someone is a burden, oh boy is it...give that to Him!!
Let Dad take care of him behind the woodshed one day.) LOL

 

[Nancy]

I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for? Are we still to forgive or should we seek to have them held accountable? Since someone is corrupted - even if a Christian - should we keep that individual out of our lives, so that they cannot inflict further damage, yet in our hearts forgive? Or does God expect us to welcome that individual with open arms?

I've struggled with this and pastors seem all over the place with it, and I wondered if anyone had ever really worked it out in their own minds/ spirits as to where the lines were drawn. Have you had personal experience with this - if so, how have you handled it?

Yes, SG-I have had a very recent thing like this happen to me and, "as far as we are able..." we get along, if the other person does not receive it and, she did not, like MH said, give it to God. Even though I "think" I've forgiven her, I still have arguments and criticism and anger even that pops up in my mind and heart so...this is a tough one. She stole many things from me when she moved out. When I discover other things she took it just starts the vicious cycle all over again and, I hate it. Just want to let it go. It was worse because she lived in my upstairs (2 large rooms with a bathroom) for next to nothing because she only took in a very little money. In the almost 2 years she was here, I got to know the REAL her and, a Christian does not act or say the things she did. So, then I felt judgmental on top of things!!! Oh I hate this kind of thing, I stay away from confrontation as much as I can. So, if you have done all in your power to make amends and nothing comes of it...it is on that other person, IMHO. It's not positive or healthy to carry around resentment and I sure hope God will purge me of these feelings once and for all.

 

[aspen]

I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for? Are we still to forgive or should we seek to have them held accountable? Since someone is corrupted - even if a Christian - should we keep that individual out of our lives, so that they cannot inflict further damage, yet in our hearts forgive? Or does God expect us to welcome that individual with open arms?

I've struggled with this and pastors seem all over the place with it, and I wondered if anyone had ever really worked it out in their own minds/ spirits as to where the lines were drawn. Have you had personal experience with this - if so, how have you handled it?

Forgiveness is the highest form of love, imo. It is an important gift to yourself. It opens the gates of the prison the other person has placed you in when they wrong you. It cannot be rushed, but it also cannot be delayed too long. Timing is everything and that is where prayer comes in - God is the expert on the subject of forgiveness.

 

[Episkopos]

Both vengeance and justice are of the Lord. The difference is that at times justice (which can bring about either a good or bad result) brings a reward from the Lord...but vengeance not so much.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, SG-I have had a very recent thing like this happen to me and, "as far as we are able..." we get along, if the other person does not receive it and, she did not, like MH said, give it to God. Even though I "think" I've forgiven her, I still have arguments and criticism and anger even that pops up in my mind and heart so...this is a tough one. She stole many things from me when she moved out.

If this helps...people act out from pain...also ignorance...so to forgive that person ...picture them as
you little sister that you watched get unjustly yelled at, scolded for no reason from 2-10 yo...then,
as a teen they began to shoplift...would you be so mad at your little sis and her bad behavior?
It's the same thing...we don't know what turned your house mate to act out like a child pushing someone down in the sandbox...
but believe-you-me ...something influenced her in a bad way.
I believe she will grow up one day and be sorry...maybe at 75. Ha! Maybe at 95.
There are layers as to why wounded people do these things...it is our job to forgive and forget...
And your kindness will be the first thing towards her change.

 

[Grailhunter]

What a good topic…thank you Sovereign Grace
So many associated topics....
Forgiveness
Judgment
Hate
Real Christian?
Vengeance
Defense
Accountability
Compassion
Disassociation
I will just offer food for thought…my opinion.
Never hate….feeds Satan….and so can twist your mind.
Forgiveness is a tenant of Christian faith…heals the victim and the perpetrator.
Judgment….Got to walk softly on this one….judge the action, not the person.
Vengeance/Defense…..so many scenarios….Going after someone…no. Defense… dispatch accordingly.
Accountability/Justice best left to the authorities…civil or religious.
Compassion….consideration of what is going on with the person….yes.
Disassociation….Forgiveness….yes….allow them to be in a position to continue doing wrong against you…..no.
Determining if they are a real Christian….above my pay grade.

 

[faithfulness]

There are layers as to why wounded people do these things...it is our job to forgive and forget...

...and God's 'job' to heal? that's when you know you've forgotten? (My experience).

 

[Miss Hepburn]

...and God's 'job' to heal? that's when you know you've forgotten? (My experience).

I know, isn't it somethin when you see how the Holy Spirit has changed you from
the inside and whatever they did means nothing?! But it was BIG! hahaha...
Praise God!!!!

 

[Nancy]

If this helps...people act out from pain...also ignorance...so to forgive that person ...picture them as
you little sister that you watched get unjustly yelled at, scolded for no reason from 2-10 yo...then,
as a teen they began to shoplift...would you be so mad at your little sis and her bad behavior?
It's the same thing...we don't know what turned your house mate to act out like a child pushing someone down in the sandbox...
but believe-you-me ...something influenced her in a bad way.
I believe she will grow up one day and be sorry...maybe at 75. Ha! Maybe at 95.
There are layers as to why wounded people do these things...it is our job to forgive and forget...
And your kindness will be the first thing towards her change.

Hi Miss H!
I know that she has had issues most of her life and, I have tried to (several times) approach her to make things right and she just walked away and said nothing. It is not the material things she took from me but the way she decided to ignore me. This woman speaks from both sides of her mouth and has fooled many. Why would one act and talk differently (much) outside the Church than they do inside it? It has been now totally given to God, and I pray daily for Him to purge me of any anger or bitterness towards her. He HAS brought me to that place of praying for her well being (finally, ha!) So, IMHO...I've done all I can possibly do...it's in God's court now ♥

 

[GodsGrace]

I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for? Are we still to forgive or should we seek to have them held accountable? Since someone is corrupted - even if a Christian - should we keep that individual out of our lives, so that they cannot inflict further damage, yet in our hearts forgive? Or does God expect us to welcome that individual with open arms?

I've struggled with this and pastors seem all over the place with it, and I wondered if anyone had ever really worked it out in their own minds/ spirits as to where the lines were drawn. Have you had personal experience with this - if so, how have you handled it?

We are always to forgive, whether we are asked forgiveness or not.
(no matter how egregious)
It's OK to keep an individual out of our lives if we fear they may do it again.
We are supposed to be forgiving...not stupid.
Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Jesus said so.

What you're having a problem with is the differnece between
forgiveness and
reconciliation.

We can forgive and never see the person again.
Our heart is clear and our conscience is clear.


Reconciliation is different....this means that both persons have forgiven and the prior relationship has been restored.

I used to get one of the kids up and I'd show the difference physically:

This is forgiveness.

• 

This is reconciliaton:

• 

 

[GodsGrace]

...and God's 'job' to heal? that's when you know you've forgotten? (My experience).

To forgive is human...
To forget divine.

 

[GodsGrace]

P.S.
The difference between Vengeance and Justice.

Vengeance is negative and means you want to get back at a person for something they did to you. You want revenge.

Justice just means that you desire that everyone should get what they deserve.

Neither one is really up to us...unless we're a real judge and it's our job.

 

[Enoch111]

I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for?

Exhortations to forgive are meant to be applied to situations where we are personally offended or sinned against. There is a procedure which the Lord has given to Christians for this purpose, and it is spelled out in Matthew 18 (which addresses a number of issues).

But it seems you are talking about people who are offensive, but have not necessarily offended you personally. Therefore they are not accountable to you.

As to vengeance vs justice, it should be evident that God has ruled out vengeance as a means of retaliation, but He has not ruled out justice as a means of putting things right. In fact He demands that Christians deal justly and fairly with others, indeed go the extra mile.

So what you have are multiple issues here rather, than simply vengeance vs justice. Vengeance belongs to God. Justice may or may not happen in this life. Life ain't fair, and that's the way it is.

 

[aspen]

As far as vengeance and justice is concerned.....I believe they are none of our business

 

[Enoch111]

As far as vengeance and justice is concerned.....I believe they are none of our business

Something to keep in mind is that people CHOOSE to take offence.

We all have the option to simply ignore the offence and the offender and move on. There are a lot of idiots and obnoxious people on this planet.

 

[aspen]

Something to keep in mind is that people CHOOSE to take offence.

We all have the option to simply ignore the offence and the offender and move on. There are a lot of idiots and obnoxious people on this planet.

Indeed
Yet, I think we are exposed to a full range of situations in this life, which are placed before us to elicit empathy and invite us to practice our sanctification by loving perfectly!

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi Miss H!
I know that she has had issues most of her life and, I have tried to (several times) approach her to make things right and she just walked away and said nothing. It is not the material things she took from me but the way she decided to ignore me. This woman speaks from both sides of her mouth and has fooled many. Why would one act and talk differently (much) outside the Church than they do inside it? It has been now totally given to God, and I pray daily for Him to purge me of any anger or bitterness towards her. He HAS brought me to that place of praying for her well being (finally, ha!) So, IMHO...I've done all I can possibly do...it's in God's court now ♥

Yup!
Hahaha lol..And I get! Who doesn't here!
L'il brat ignoring you...lol...classic brat behavior!!! Arrested development at ...what? A 6 yr. old...
maybe older, actually...it might demonstrate a more mature knowledge of manipulation. Geeze Louise.
Remember, indignation is from the ego...not 'your' ego, the ego, period...(the devil)...that which separates us from the
Truth or Love.
You're the together adult here with an unconscious desire for her to meet you
as an adult, also...probably won't happen! ha..
Yup, you gave it to God...but it helps to know when people are simply impossible pills!

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Justice may or may not happen in this life.

I like that sentence!