What is Works Theology

[RichardBurger]

What is Works Theology?Does this theology really exist or am I making it up?IMHO yes it really does exist. If you ask most people in the Christian religion why they think they are going to heaven the first things out of their mouth will be about what they do, or have done. --- In other words it will be about their works. -- Very few will “”first”” say it is because Jesus’ work on the cross paid for their sins. If they mention the cross it will have to be coerced. -- Why do they do that? IMHO it is because they feel their works are what really matters. Perhaps that is because that is what they have been taught.The most discussed idea on forums is works. To believe works follow faith is find, but to constantly harp on it is to judge other Christians and to make works the center of Christianity. This is a form of boasting and trying to elevate some people as being closer to God than others. It makes Christianity a class system. IMHO this is what causes the world to turn against Christianity. The world see Christianity as a works religion just like all the other works religions and not as a religion in which God has reconciled sinners to God.Since true faith WILL produce good works why are so many constantly harping that a person must have good works? If they are a Christian won’t they have good works?Seems to me that if they are not Christians all the harping about doing good works will not make them a Christian.Where am I wrong?Richard

 

[treeoflife]

(RichardBurger;49170)
What is Works Theology?Does this theology really exist or am I making it up?IMHO yes it really does exist. If you ask most people in the Christian religion why they think they are going to heaven the first things out of their mouth will be about what they do, or have done. --- In other words it will be about their works. -- Very few will “”first”” say it is because Jesus’ work on the cross paid for their sins. If they mention the cross it will have to be coerced. -- Why do they do that? IMHO it is because they feel their works are what really matters. Perhaps that is because that is what they have been taught.The world see Christianity as a works religion just like all the other works religions and not as a religion in which God has reconciled sinners to God.
Amen. We either have the uniqueness of GRACE ALONE for salvation, or we are like every other works based religion where one hopes to get to heaven by their good works, but doesn't really know. Some brothers and sisters in Christ say, "What makes Christianity different is that we do not get to heaven by works, it is by God's grace, in Christ. No works at all." Then, you will ask them what sins one could commit to lose salvation, and many will name sins... this is a grevious contridiction, and it frustrates the Gospel of grace... God forbid.Many Christians are tainted by a works based Gospel... it is our goal to meditate on His Grace, and teach it at all times.

Arg, how my heart aches for people to understand His work on the cross, and accept it for the mystery that it is... by grace alone we are saved, and not by works... lest any man boast. Stop frustrating the Gospel of grace, brothers and sisters... it is not good to strive against God

 

[goldy]

(RichardBurger;49170)
What is Works Theology?Does this theology really exist or am I making it up?IMHO yes it really does exist. If you ask most people in the Christian religion why they think they are going to heaven the first things out of their mouth will be about what they do, or have done. --- In other words it will be about their works. -- Very few will “”first”” say it is because Jesus’ work on the cross paid for their sins. If they mention the cross it will have to be coerced. -- Why do they do that? IMHO it is because they feel their works are what really matters. Perhaps that is because that is what they have been taught.The most discussed idea on forums is works. To believe works follow faith is find, but to constantly harp on it is to judge other Christians and to make works the center of Christianity. This is a form of boasting and trying to elevate some people as being closer to God than others. It makes Christianity a class system. IMHO this is what causes the world to turn against Christianity. The world see Christianity as a works religion just like all the other works religions and not as a religion in which God has reconciled sinners to God.Since true faith WILL produce good works why are so many constantly harping that a person must have good works? If they are a Christian won’t they have good works?Seems to me that if they are not Christians all the harping about doing good works will not make them a Christian.Where am I wrong?Richard

As a Catholic Christian, I (we) believe that I'm saved by Christ's death on the cross......I think most Christians would agree with this. We believe in a faith AND works theology. If you read James chapter 2, you will see this quite a lot. We aren't saved by faith alone....we aren't saved by works alone. Works are a manifestation of our faith in Christ. Many Protestants mistake Catholic teaching on this.....they think that we believe in works alone for salvation. Not true....

 

[treeoflife]

(goldy;49866)
As a Catholic Christian, I (we) believe that I'm saved by Christ's death on the cross......I think most Christians would agree with this. We believe in a faith AND works theology. If you read James chapter 2, you will see this quite a lot. We aren't saved by faith alone....we aren't saved by works alone. Works are a manifestation of our faith in Christ. Many Protestants mistake Catholic teaching on this.....they think that we believe in works alone for salvation. Not true....
Works alone or works with faith are the same thing in my view. We are saved by HIS WORK alone, and by faith in Him for it.

Philippians 3:8-9:What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.​

Righteousness comes by Him alone, and through faith in Him. No works needed. True, works should come and do come by reason of this faith, but they are not required for salvation.Not having righteousness that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ.

 

[goldy]

(treeoflife;49869)
Works alone or works with faith are the same thing in my view. We are saved by HIS WORK alone, and by faith in Him for it.

Philippians 3:8-9:What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.​

Righteousness comes by Him alone, and through faith in Him. No works needed. True, works should come and do come by reason of this faith, but they are not required for salvation.Not having righteousness that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ.
Let me ask you this: Do you believe in the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved? In other words, after you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, do you believe there is nothing that you could do to lose your salvation?

 

[treeoflife]

(goldy;49871)
Let me ask you this: Do you believe in the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved? In other words, after you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, do you believe there is nothing that you could do to lose your salvation?
Yes, I agree with what the apostles and what Jesus taught on the matter of salvation. It is not by our works that we are saved, it is by His work alone we are saved. The only sin a man or woman could commit to be eternally damned is the unpardonable sin of blapheming the Holy Spirit who moves him or her to believe on Christ alone for salvation. Once a person has beleived on Christ, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Our salvation has never been by our works.

John 6:37-39ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.​

 

[Jordan]

(treeoflife;49873)
(goldy;49871)
Let me ask you this: Do you believe in the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved? In other words, after you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, do you believe there is nothing that you could do to lose your salvation?
Yes, I agree with what the apostles and what Jesus taught on the matter of salvation. It is not by our works that we are saved, it is by His work alone we are saved. The only sin a man or woman could commit to be eternally damned is the unpardonable sin of blapheming the Holy Spirit who moves him or her to believe on Christ alone for salvation. Once a person has beleived on Christ, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Our salvation has never been by our works.

John 6:37-39ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.​

Once Saved Always Saved? Bull...don't give me that lie of Satan. God knows we will fail to do His Will from time to time...we are saved by the grace of God. By grace, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

 

[treeoflife]

(thesuperjag;49875)
we are saved by the grace of God. By grace, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
...Isn't that what I just said?

 

[goldy]

(treeoflife;49873)
Yes, I agree with what the apostles and what Jesus taught on the matter of salvation. It is not by our works that we are saved, it is by His work alone we are saved. The only sin a man or woman could commit to be eternally damned is the unpardonable sin of blapheming the Holy Spirit who moves him or her to believe on Christ alone for salvation. Once a person has beleived on Christ, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Our salvation has never been by our works.

John 6:37-39ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.​

So if a man gets saved (accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior), but in a moment of weakness commits adultery for example, does he need to repent for that? If I understand what you are saying, that person is still saved and assured of Heaven and doesn't even need to repent. Is this what you are saying?By the way, it's EXTREMELY important to understand that I don't believe in salvation by works ALONE.

 

[treeoflife]

(goldy;49877)
So if a man gets saved (accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior), but in a moment of weakness commits adultery for example, does he need to repent for that? If I understand what you are saying, that person is still saved and assured of Heaven and doesn't even need to repent. Is this what you are saying?By the way, it's EXTREMELY important to understand that I don't believe in salvation by works ALONE.
Dear Goldy,Jesus explained to us that we cannot keep the law. Jesus said that adultery was lusting after another person who is not yours by right of marriage.Do I believe a person SHOULD confess his or her sins to God? Absolutely. Our relationship with Him is damaged and we will only wound ourselves if we harbor unconfessed sin by trying to keep it from Him (who can keep sin from God?).However, such confession is not required for salvation. If we have believed on Him, He has saved us... and we are sealed.

 

[goldy]

(thesuperjag;49875)
Once Saved Always Saved? Bull...don't give me that lie of Satan. God knows we will fail to do His Will from time to time...we are saved by the grace of God. By grace, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
I agree that we are saved by grace (Christ's death on the cross). But how is that grace manifested in Christians? By works? By faith? Both? There is a song called, "They'll know we are Christians by our love" How do people know that you are a Christian, SuperJag?

 

[Christina]

We are saved by Grace alone our works are our clothes in the millieum they are not required to be saved, but being a new person when we are saved makes one desire to do good works lest we be found naked. Works saves no one. Grace saves

 

[goldy]

(treeoflife;49878)
Dear Goldy,Jesus explained to us that we cannot keep the law. Jesus said that adultery was lusting after another person who is not yours by right of marriage.Do I believe a person SHOULD confess his or her sins to God? Absolutely. Our relationship with Him is damaged and we will only wound ourselves if we harbor unconfessed sin by trying to keep it from Him (who can keep sin from God?).However, such confession is not required for salvation. If we have believed on Him, He has saved us... and we are sealed.
Christ's death on the cross opened the door for us to get into Heaven. But His death on the cross didn't just pick us up and give us an automatic ticket to Heaven. C'mon!!

 

[Letsgofishing]

This has already been explained by Goldy but let me put it differentlywe are saved by gods grace, we accept that grace through our works. James chapter 214What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.and that sums it up nicely

 

[Jordan]

(Letsgofishing;49887)
This has already been explained by Goldy but let me put it differentlywe are saved by gods grace, we accept that grace through our works. James chapter 214What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.and that sums it up nicely
We are not saved by works. only grace. This chapter of James (James 2) has nothing to do with salvational issue. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6)

 

[treeoflife]

(goldy;49884)
Christ's death on the cross opened the door for us to get into Heaven. But His death on the cross didn't just pick us up and give us an automatic ticket to Heaven. C'mon!!
On the contrary... that's exactly what He gave us.

Galatians 3:1-3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​

It is finished my friend. Keeping the law is unprofitable concerning salvation. Jesus kept the law for us, and died for all sin, every sin.

 

[treeoflife]

(thesuperjag;49892)
We are not saved by works. only grace. This chapter of James (James 2) has nothing to do with salvational issue. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6)
I'm glad we can agree on this most important thing.

It is by grace!Read this over and over... it's meaty!

Romans 4:14-2414For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah's womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.​

The reason it was accredited to Abraham as righteousness was, Paul says, because he simply believed that God was capable of doing what He had promised to do. And, it is for all who believe... we simply need to let go and believe that He is good enough to do it. It is by grace!

For those who look to God, and seeing their own flesh is weak say, "I believe you can do it," having the faith of Abraham... we simply believe. Free ticket to heaven. Just believe God... it is finished.

 

[Craig19]

I believe what James is trying to say is that works are almost proof of faith. If you truly believe Jesus died for you, you would give your life back to Him. Which means you would produce good works because He is in control of your life.Our works would never have been good enough to get into heaven. Its like having to jump 100m far but only being able to jump 1m. So Jesus died for us because without Him it was impossible, but works are basically your proof of being a Christian. People tend to even lie to themselves in saying they believe in Jesus, but what they do, say and think are so unlike Jesus they could not possibly believe.But here comes the real important part God knows our hearts. If someone says he is a Christian, but his works do not show it I can not say: "He is not a Christian." because I can not see his heart. A lot of times people's works are wrong, but they might still be Christians there faith has just not grown enough yet.I think both statements work together. Only through believing in Jesus can you reach heaven and good works will be the fruit of your belief. Sometimes your faith will be little and your works weak, but as your faith grows so does your works. So as all fruits are produces in different ways and at different times no human should judge another, that is God's job.Hope it helps. God bless

 

[Jordan]

(goldy;49882)
(thesuperjag;49875)
Once Saved Always Saved? Bull...don't give me that lie of Satan. God knows we will fail to do His Will from time to time...we are saved by the grace of God. By grace, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
I agree that we are saved by grace (Christ's death on the cross). But how is that grace manifested in Christians? By works? By faith? Both? There is a song called, "They'll know we are Christians by our love" How do people know that you are a Christian, SuperJag?I'm not going to waste my time on foolish questions...that question is overused (except for newcomers) The question is for "They'll know we are Christians by our love" What kind of love?

 

[Letsgofishing]

(Craig19;49906)
I believe what James is trying to say is that works are almost proof of faith. If you truly believe Jesus died for you, you would give your life back to Him. Which means you would produce good works because He is in control of your life. Our works would never have been good enough to get into heaven. Its like having to jump 100m far but only being able to jump 1m. So Jesus died for us because without Him it was impossible, but works are basically your proof of being a Christian. People tend to even lie to themselves in saying they believe in Jesus, but what they do, say and think are so unlike Jesus they could not possibly believe. But here comes the real important part God knows our hearts. If someone says he is a Christian, but his works do not show it I can not say: "He is not a Christian." because I can not see his heart. A lot of times people's works are wrong, but they might still be Christians there faith has just not grown enough yet. I think both statements work together. Only through believing in Jesus can you reach heaven and good works will be the fruit of your belief. Sometimes your faith will be little and your works weak, but as your faith grows so does your works. So as all fruits are produces in different ways and at different times no human should judge another, that is God's job. Hope it helps. God bless
Exactly, Faith will get you into heaven, but can you believe that Jesus died for you and still make no attempt to not live the life of a sinner. why was it almost every teaching of Jesus Christ had to do with works? obviously works are very important. So Like I said before it is through grace we get to heaven, we cannot get there on our own works. We will never become worthy. But it is through works we accept his grace.