1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What is your view of sins, forgiveness, and consequences?

Discussion in 'Fellowship Forum' started by Jane_Doe22, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    431
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I'm curious as to other people's views on sins, forgiveness, and consequences. Say somebody close to you (spouse, sibling, longtime friend), committed a very serious wrong (like adultery, betrayal of deep trust, etc). Their actions have deeply hurt you. They are "sorry", but somewhat defending their actions, still have a long way to go working out things with God, a long way to improve, etc. In the meantime they are being... angry, depressive, prickly, lashing out, not wanting to listen, etc.

    So what are you thoughts on sins, forgiveness, grace, and consequences here?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  2. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,682
    Likes Received:
    9,280
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    My best friend of many,many years ..my prayer partner ...a strong Christian...DID do just that. :(
    She hugged me goodbye as she was "going on holiday, and would see me again in three weeks."
    It was a lie...she was leaving her husband and running off with someone.

    After three weeks her husband said he'd had a call and she was not returning.
    Everyone was deeply shocked.
    The church people were shocked and said that no one should ever speak to her if she called.

    I was so hurt with her lie...we had been through thick and thin, and she left without a 'real' goodbye...out of my life.
    None of her family would call her, everyone was too hurt.


    Two months later I got her phone # ( she had left Canada and gone to the southern states,)
    The first thing I said to her was " Joanne what one earth are you doing? How will you feel when one morning the deception slips away and you wake up in your RIGHT mind? "

    Very long story short...she did "wake up"...and then tried to commit Suicide , twice...once the dog gave the alarm...the second time a friend 'happened' to find her .

    I called every week...I was the only one from her past who called her.
    I never condemned her, but I did tell her she was a fool.

    A year later she came back to the Lord. All this was in the 1980's
    She's older than me...so she is now 84 ...I think the suicide attempts damaged her...as she is now in a Home with dementia.

    God never gives up on us...we may give up on Him, but He is faithful to keep prodding us.
    He is the place to run to with sin...not away from, to towards Him.
     
    Mayflower, amadeus, Dave L and 2 others like this.
  3. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    431
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Thank you for your words, @"ByGrace". Lot of the story you said is... not to different than what I'm going through with my friend. It is... hard.

    The line she keeps using is "I need you to show me grace". Which at this point I'm getting the impression she and I have VERY different views on that category of things. Hence my starting this thread, to see different people's views across different Christian groups.
     
  4. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    482
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    sins have consequences....unnecessary suffering in one form or other.
    consequences are the reaping of what is sown....grubs gives birth to grubs not mangos.
    grace is forgiveness extended....today is the day while it is still called day.
     
  5. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    384
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I've been in similar situations. One thing I've learned is that it doesn't pay to act like everything is fine when it's clearly not. If people try to justify their sin, I don't believe they can be truly repentant. If you haven't already, I encourage you to ask God how to specifically handle this situation in order to help this person come to repentance. I pray that you will have His wisdom.

    Edit: After reading some of your replies, I felt that my reply could have been taken as being too harsh, which is not how I intended it. The situation in the OP sounds similar to something I endured for years. I found that when I acted like everything was fine, the person in my situation took that to mean that I was ok with their sin or that I didn't see their behavior as sin. I found in my situation that I had to be very real with the person, esp. considering that the person's eternal destiny may be at stake.

    These verses from Galatians 5 keep coming to mind:

    Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance — as I told you before — that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    I believe that even as Christians we sin sometimes, but the Holy Spirit convicts us, and by God's grace, we repent. We don't "practice" the sin.... I take this verse to mean that those who continue in sin without conviction are practicing the sin and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Of course, only God knows a person's heart, so as I said before, we need God's wisdom.

     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
    Jane_Doe22, amadeus and Hidden In Him like this.
  6. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Meekness...that virtue which patiently bears the burdens that others sins impose upon us. Jesus, though innocent, bore the sins of humanity. Should we complain or be reluctant to forgive folk who sin against their own body...a friend, or even us? I am too ashamed to describe those things I did before the grace of God touched my heart and rearranged my whole life...who am I to stand before anyone else and look down upon them as if I am guiltless, or even incapable of going back to lick up my own vomit? I cleave to me Saviour so that I may not return...all we can do is recommend and encourage others to do the same...and should they fall...His open arms are still wide in compassion and yearning for that oneness that will give strength to all who surrender to Him.
     
    Pisteuo and amadeus like this.
  7. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    385
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I had a close friend who also gave one impression of her life, but then suddenly left her husband and moved away with one of the church leaders. I felt betrayed by both of them. At the time I was going through my divorce and dealing with all the betrayal from my own husband. I had chosen to handle him Gods way, with grace and forgiveness. This did not save my marriage as there is only so much unfaithfulness a marriage can take. So the consequences affected both of us. I have never regretted my divorce, but I still pay the price as I do not have the financial support of a husband, the companionship of a soul mate. I have found it easier to forgive him than my friend..... both have never really seen wrong in their actions, maybe the difference is that she is a Christian and my ex husband isn't.
    I do communicate with my friend now, she divorced her husband and married the church leader. However I have never felt able to meet up with her In person, they come back to visit the area from time to time. So I guess , inside, I still have ' issues ' with her. My ex I am able to talk face to face with.
    Now my dad is somewhere in the middle - he had an affair and re kindled the relationship after my mum died, he is equally unable to accept what he did as being wrong. He justifies it by relaying to me that my mum had an affair, but keeps changing the name of the person she was involved with. I have no idea if it is true, and at 87 and no one to confirm anything I have leave it in the realm of uncertainty. I am open about how I feel about his affair, but offer grace with him and his partner now. I try not to allow it to affect our relationship in the present, and go to the Lord with how it makes me feel at times. My dad is not a Christian, his partner is an ex JW.

    So three different situations, all with different outcomes with regards to forgiveness, grace and consequences.
    Rita
     
    amadeus, Dave L and "ByGrace" like this.
  8. larry2

    larry2 Active Member

    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    193
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

    Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
     
    Pisteuo, amadeus and Hidden In Him like this.
  9. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    An old saying is fearfully true. Sin always takes you further than you intended to go.

    A brother I worshipped with was also a prophet and gave an amazing confirmation to a dream God had given me. I dreamed a huge bear that was going to devour me turned away when it realized I was God's. Brother Jerry at church knew nothing of my dream but came and prophesied to me "I've kept you from the bear".

    Never believe that because the gifts operate through a person that this is a sign of their right standing with God. For the gifts and callings of God are without recall such is his utter faithfulness and fidelity. Amen

    He got caught up in the prosperity confession thing and though I don't know the details ended up in prison. He was murdered by another inmate. I still shake my head when I remember him.

    It frightens me beyond belief to consider going away from Jesus.

    Whatever the temptation it's not worth it.

    Ezekiel 18:4 KJVS
    Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    But if such a one return

    Psalm 130:3-4 KJVS
    If thou, Lord , shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
    [4] But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
    Mayflower, amadeus and Hidden In Him like this.
  10. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,682
    Likes Received:
    9,280
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I just stuck with my friend and called her for about an hour every week.
    When a friend is totally taken by a deceiving spirit it is next to impossible to get through to them. I didn't wear myself out trying.
    I just continued to be her friend...I didn't stop speaking about the things of the Lord ...in fact I spoke to her just like we used to talk , about God's Kingdom.
    I didn't even bother to tell her or use the word sin...there is no need in these cases...they know it as much as we do.
    I prayed and loved and worked on her for a year. Her husband divorced her at her request. ( poor man was shattered) She married again. Then after about 9 years both husbands died. She did get restored. So she hasn't lost her salvation....but she will lose the reward of the " Good and faithful servant".

    As I say...she is now in a Home and we don't talk any more....because her mind is not good now and she repeats everything.
     
    amadeus and Dave L like this.
  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Jane Doe, I actually like these two replies the best:
    For starters, James says that if you pray for wisdom it will be granted, provided you ask in faith, and in these types of situations you really need it, because when people fall in love it has very powerful effects on them. This can be especially true if it has been a long time, almost like being young again and having a new lease on life. It is why they will get very defensive. They hope their friends and family will understand that they want to be happy again, and sometimes almost no amount of council will get through. But the thing is, because they are happy now, they assume they will be forever, and love turns them blind.

    So the "bearing one another's burdens" verse is astonishingly applicable here. Imagine yourself in that type of situation, and what you would be willing to hear. And try and not treat her as a monster, but at the same time Wisdom may tell you in prayer to warn her in love that she may be destroying her life. It will depend on what God tells you to do, and how He tells you to do it. But remember: Even if He says to warn her, do so in a spirit of meekness, as someone doing so only because she cares for her. And to do this you will have to get your own hurt feelings out of the way, or she will only see you as clouded by your own feelings just as she is.

    I wish you the best. Very tough situation.
     
  12. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,985
    Likes Received:
    1,785
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I can’t really tell you how and I’m very aware of contradictions in: turning away from those that sin so as not to be caught in a snare yourself and extending mercy. It is not in condoning their actions but we are called to forgive. It’s those most difficult things done to and against us(really against Him), those deep pains of affliction caused by another that give us the most profound opportunities to be Christ before a hurting world. Consider we serve a God who delights in mercy. The world lacks compassion which is to say the world ...lacks Christ. Psalm 86:14-15 O God, the proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them. [15] But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

    Matthew 5:7-12
    [7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. [8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. [9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [10] Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [11] Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you , and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

    Psalm 37:21
    [21] The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.

    James 3:17-18
    [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

    I’m aware it is not easy. There are plenty of struggles in my own life of being called to display mercy; where mercy and forgiveness seem impossible. But we serve a God of the impossible.
     
    Mayflower and amadeus like this.
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    549
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Mature Christians can witness this sort of thing and get through it. But the young who see it coming from those they look up to can end up in a real tailspin. We might not be aware of how it is affecting them but these need special attention.
     
    Mayflower, amadeus and Prayer Warrior like this.
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    While other people's views are fine, Christians need to obtain their answers from Scripture. Too many churches fail to do this.

    There are several Scriptures which indicate that when someone sins against an individual (e.g. you) there is a process given to deal with that issue. If both are Christians and are within the same local church, then it may even involve the whole church.

    At the same time when someone sins and the individual in question is not involved, he or she should approach the sinning brother or sister about this sin and try to get them to turn away from it. When Christians refuse to repent and persist in sin, then there is a "sin unto death" (premature death to remove that person from earth). A person who is genuinely sorry will not try to make further excuses for themselves, but honestly admit that they sinned and have forsaken the sin.

    It is entirely possible that a person is a church member and even believes themselves to be saved, when they are really unconverted. If that's the case then they have to go back to square one.

    God is always ready to forgive sins on the basis of the finished work of Christ. But there must be confession and repentance. There could also be unpleasant consequences which must be addressed. So every situation has to be assessed on its own merits and then the appropriate remedy can be applied.
     
    Prayer Warrior likes this.
  15. Blueberry

    Blueberry Member

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    44
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    As I understand it, the premature death is to destroy the body in order save the soul? Though it also seems to clearly suggest that a unrepentant Christian might be taken out in the midst of the sin.

    Is it possible that such a person may repent, be truly sorry and cease the sin(s), but still suffer this result? As a consequence of the sinful period. As "God is not mocked". I mean some sins have clear direct results. Smoking may cause lung cancer for example. But then some sins do not have an obvious direct effect on the body, but maybe some seemingly disconnected fatal disease or event may still be the result?
     
  16. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    384
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Hi, Blueberry! Welcome to the forum!

    I believe that you're right about what you've said. It's probably an unpopular view, though. It seems that many people think that God will overlook our sins, but the scriptures don't support that view.

    You're right--God is not mocked!
     
  17. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,682
    Likes Received:
    9,280
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    We seem to be stuck now on consequences!! Which is not the answer the lost person needs... they will indeed reap what they have sown...but no way do I or will I ever believe it comes from the Father.
    The Enemy 'tool' will see to that...he is more than willing to tell the person that it is from God...which does what? It just pushes the fallen further away from God ...and the Enemy Tool wins.

    The only way I have ever counselled ( and one man with a gun intent on Suicide) ...is love and forgiveness. They don't need the consequences of not returning to Father.
    WE reap what WE sow...nothing to do with God punishing.
    He may lovingly chastise , but never ever punish.
     
  18. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    384
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It all depends on the heart of the person we're trying to help. That's why we have to pray for God's wisdom!

    I'm confused by what you're saying about God never punishing a person. Are you saying that God NEVER punishes sin?
    .
     
    Jane_Doe22 likes this.
  19. Blueberry

    Blueberry Member

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    44
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Thank you.
     
  20. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,682
    Likes Received:
    9,280
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    You wont like it, but my answer is YES.
    I personally believe that God poured out ALL judgement upon His Son.
    God dealt with sin at the cross.

    God is not a God of double jeopardy. "Punish now, and then punish again later"
    But as I have mentioned , I do believe that we ourselves reap what we sow...it has nothing to do with God.
    Drink poison = die. God was not involved.
    Jesus did what He came to do.

    As for your line- "It depends on the heart of the person we are trying to help"
    Only God see the hearts ...all "we" do is just guess...and we can guess very wrong!! We can't 'judge the hearts' of those who have got themselves into a big mess.

    anyway...I did say that you wouldn't like my answer... :)
     
    Butterfly and Jane_Doe22 like this.
Loading...