What the Heck is Salvation? And what are we Saved From?

[Brakelite]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation, how it is procured, and how, even whether, it needs to be retained. There are threads all over the place discussing various aspects of the gospel from go to woe (perhaps an unfortunate pun) but what prompted this particular thread was a discussion between @mailmandan and @Bible Highlighter in the current Sabbath thread. This discussion is over the topic of sanctification, and whether such a concept is a works based process, or grace based process, whether it's a process at all or a declaration, and whether it's even necessary for salvation. So. Lots to talk about... Lots of questions... And I have to wonder to be honest why it is we are even finding it necessary to discuss this at all so late in Earth's history. But here we are. And we do need to discuss it. I think understanding how we are saved is kinda important don't you?

I don't want this to turn into a debate or argument however. (Fat chance though right). This is too important to go down the I'm right and you're wrong path. Let's try please to keep it as a true Bible study. And I do have another request. Can we please refrain from 29 paragraph posts. I don't want copy paste university PhD dissertations. Let's please keep it civil, respectful, maybe for those of us less enlightened... Enlightening. God bless you all as you contribute.

 

[quietthinker]

I have learned that Salvation is God's business. He has and will save me because I will not resist his drawing and that drawing gives me the desire to do the things that please him. I guess I call that sanctification.

So, what are the things that please him? John 6:28-29 reads like this......
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

God's love has done for me what I could not do for myself......he wants me to trust that. God has also promised a new heart of flesh to replace my heart of stone ie, to see as he sees, myself and others. As my understanding grasps this gift it draws from me the desire to be compassionate and long-suffering as he is.

Though I fail often I am bid get up and walk again. I hear that voice, trust it and soldier on and one day soon when Jesus appears with all his angels as promised I will be welcomed into eternity. This mortal will put on immortality and this corruptible will put on incorruption. 1Thessalonians 4:16-18

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation is on 2 levels. The first level is according to righteousness and the second according to holiness.

The righteous are saved from the condemnation of this world. Likewise believers in Christ are also saved from the condemnation of this world. Whoever believes will be saved.

However, for those who claim to be Christians, or those who are indeed born-again, there is a stricter judgment...a personal judgment. To whom much is given, more is required. Those who have received grace will be judged by what they did with it. So then this is a judgment against a holy standard.

Of course the mercy of God extends to those who are in Him (corporately) and who have remained HUMBLE and feared the Lord. Being born again saves us from the condemnation of the world but there are some who will fall under the condemnation of the devil.....being unrighteous and having lost their humility and fear of the Lord.

God is never against the righteous....whether they know Him or not. But unrighteousness shall not go unpunished...whether they know Him or not.

 

[Brakelite]

Can I dispense with one common myth? That myth said that Israel in THE OT were saved by their obedience to the law, whereas Christians are saved by grace. This i think is a principle undergirding dispensationalism. Now I call it a myth, based on my understanding that in the IT God's name is given to Moses... Gracious, merciful, long-suffering, forging iniquity, transgression and sin...
In Psalms we read...
KJV Psalms 86:15
15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

KJV Psalms 111:4
4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the LORD is gracious and full of compassion.

KJV Psalms 119:29
29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.

We are told that God doesn't change. Noah found grace in the sight of God. Yet it was clear throughout the OT that God required obedience. But has that changed? No. Jesus said, "if ye love Me, keep My commandments". So obviously, because the Bible doesn't contradict itself, we need to find a way by which to harmonize our obligation to obey, and God's promises to be gracious according to His name and character. Anyone like to give that a go?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, don’t take my word for it.

From what I understand there are four ways to understand the word saved.

One of them pertain to being saved from Gods wrath which pertained only to the nation of Israel when Judgement was poured out.

One of them pertain to being saved from Satan and his Demons, Death, Hell/Sheol, which is when Jesus had returned and all things were placed beneath his feet. (I believe this done happend, and now all people are saved from these things).

The other one was… saved from Sin (as new life comes to a believer who now can have a life by the spirit as the only man dies from its former life of sin though it pops back up from time to time).

The fourth one is not a saved from, but a saved to and that being saved to the kingdom of Heaven by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, in which is where salvation rest with him in Faith.

That is how I have been taught about the saved/salvation issue.

 

[MatthewG]

Can I dispense with one common myth? That myth said that Israel in THE OT were saved by their obedience to the law, whereas Christians are saved by grace. This i think is a principle undergirding dispensationalism. Now I call it a myth, based on my understanding that in the IT God's name is given to Moses... Gracious, merciful, long-suffering, forging iniquity, transgression and sin...
In Psalms we read...
KJV Psalms 86:15
15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

KJV Psalms 111:4
4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the LORD is gracious and full of compassion.

KJV Psalms 119:29
29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.

We are told that God doesn't change. Noah found grace in the sight of God. Yet it was clear throughout the OT that God required obedience. But has that changed? No. Jesus said, "if ye love Me, keep My commandments". So obviously, because the Bible doesn't contradict itself, we need to find a way by which to harmonize our obligation to obey, and God's promises to be gracious according to His name and character. Anyone like to give that a go?

Hello,

Concerning the question about Old Testament would say there was Material blessings and cursed that were upon the nation as either when they obeyed they were blessed or they disobeyed they were cursed.

The same thing happens today only Spiritual, when one obeys the teachings of Christ, you are blessed, but when you disobey you end up quenching the Holy Spirit inside of you.

Depending on how you sinned against God or perhaps Others though you are forgiven, it is always good to God and confess and be honest with the Father in Heaven in my best estimation as there is relief and comfort founded in doing so.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The hardest part about Heaven is not getting there, but staying there.

Some years ago it occurred to me that it's very easy for me to live in this
world, but Heaven would require a level of piety and self control that I was
pretty sure I couldn't keep up forever. Sooner or later I'd mess up and get
thrown out. But if it were just as easy for me to live in Heaven as it is for me
to live in this world, then for sure I'd never get thrown out of Heaven.

In other words: if only thinking, feeling, and acting like God came just as
natural to me as thinking, feeling, and acting like a human; then that would
be the cat's meow.
_

 

[MatthewG]

.
The hardest part about Heaven is not getting there, but staying there.

Some years ago it occurred to me that it's very easy for me to live in this
world, but Heaven would require a level of piety and self control that I was
pretty sure I couldn't keep up forever. Sooner or later I'd mess up and get
thrown out. But if it were just as easy for me to live in Heaven as it is for me
to live in this world, then for sure I'd never get thrown out of Heaven.

In other words: if only thinking, feeling, and acting like God came just as
natural to me as thinking, feeling, and acting like a human; then that would
be the cat's meow.
_

That is true, the way is narrow, and it requires self-sacrifice.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

That is true, the way is narrow, and it requires self-sacrifice.

Self-sacrifice is one way; but it's neither the only way nor the most reliable
way. In point of fact, God himself has made an excellent way to stay in
Heaven that takes will power out of the equation.

• Jer 31:31-34 . . Behold, the days come-- declares The Lord --that I will
make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I
took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My
covenant they broke, although I was an husband unto them-- declares The
Lord.

. . . But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel:
After those days-- declares The Lord --I will put My law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My
people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every
man his brother, saying, "know The Lord" for they shall all know Me, from
the least of them unto the greatest of them

FAQ: The new covenant speaks of "My law". Where is it? When God codified
the old covenant, He wrote its law on some tables of stone. Why doesn't the
new covenant have tables of stone?

REPLY: Do you need a book of instructions on how to think, feel, and act like
a human? No; your human nature manages all that for you. In other words:
the law of human nature is in your inward parts and written in your heart.
(Rom 7:15-23)

Now, supposing that instead of the law of human nature, there was the law
of divine nature in your inward parts and written in your heart. How would
you think, feel, and act then? Well; I can tell you, with confidence, that you
wouldn't need a book of instructions to think, feel, and act divine because
the law of divine nature would manage all that for you. Is what I'm saying
possible? Yes.

• 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life
and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and
virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious
promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature.

That passage mentions "great and precious promises" relative to the divine
nature. Where are they? Well, they're contained in the language of the new
covenant quoted at the beginning of this posting. The promises are also
contained in the language of Ezek 36:24-28 which says:

"I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon
you, and you shall be clean from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.

. . . A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an
heart of flesh. And I will put My spirit within you, and cause you to walk in
My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments, and do them. And you shall
dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be My people,
and I will be your God."
_

 

[ScottA]

Salvation comes way down the line of revelations from God.

I mean, "In the beginning was the Word", and from that day forward in all the history of the world everything unfolds to the point of "all truth" promised by Christ (for our times). "Then comes the end." Within those bookends salvation is immediately announced in the garden, but is not fulfilled, nor even fully understood until it is then announced that "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Which is not only well down the line of revelations, but in the midst of "a time, times, and half a time"--the times "determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy." But even being the all encompassing point of this topic...that is perhaps another discussion for another time.

And as I too do not like 29 paragraph posts--which I rarely read; in summary, Salvation is the end, which rightly and invaluably is a name given to the Author and Finisher of our salvation: "the End", aka, Jesus Christ.

Thus, the revelation of salvation takes all of those "times" determined, but manifesting it...perhaps only 33 years, or 3 years, or even 3 days...or as the scriptures refer to it as "the year of the Lord", "the day of the Lord", or even as Jesus himself, putting a finer point on it, said, "My hour."

It is that finer point that ought to settle all of these discussions--and yet the debates are even more numerous than all the times appointed.

 

[ScottA]

.
The hardest part about Heaven is not getting there, but staying there.

Some years ago it occurred to me that it's very easy for me to live in this
world, but Heaven would require a level of piety and self control that I was
pretty sure I couldn't keep up forever. Sooner or later I'd mess up and get
thrown out. But if it were just as easy for me to live in Heaven as it is for me
to live in this world, then for sure I'd never get thrown out of Heaven.

In other words: if only thinking, feeling, and acting like God came just as
natural to me as thinking, feeling, and acting like a human; then that would
be the cat's meow.
_

I, I, I, is not the heart of the salvation story...as you have just expressed; but by One Jesus Christ.

As for staying or getting thrown out of heaven--do you not know that being trust out of the garden and the presence of God was brought about by one man, Adam...that, that was in the beginning and does not come after salvation, but before? Genesis 3:22-24 Romans 5:12

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation

Easy as 1-2-3

1.

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” (Acts 16:31)

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38)

2.

“walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God” (Colossians 1:10)

3.

“…he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

 

[dev553344]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation, how it is procured, and how, even whether, it needs to be retained. There are threads all over the place discussing various aspects of the gospel from go to woe (perhaps an unfortunate pun) but what prompted this particular thread was a discussion between @mailmandan and @Bible Highlighter in the current Sabbath thread. This discussion is over the topic of sanctification, and whether such a concept is a works based process, or grace based process, whether it's a process at all or a declaration, and whether it's even necessary for salvation. So. Lots to talk about... Lots of questions... And I have to wonder to be honest why it is we are even finding it necessary to discuss this at all so late in Earth's history. But here we are. And we do need to discuss it. I think understanding how we are saved is kinda important don't you?

I don't want this to turn into a debate or argument however. (Fat chance though right). This is too important to go down the I'm right and you're wrong path. Let's try please to keep it as a true Bible study. And I do have another request. Can we please refrain from 29 paragraph posts. I don't want copy paste university PhD dissertations. Let's please keep it civil, respectful, maybe for those of us less enlightened... Enlightening. God bless you all as you contribute.

True salvation is being resurrected, cleansed with the blood of Christ (which happens after we die and are resurrected), and brought into heaven and given eternal life.

 

[GEN2REV]

.
The hardest part about Heaven is not getting there, but staying there.

Some years ago it occurred to me that it's very easy for me to live in this
world, but Heaven would require a level of piety and self control that I was
pretty sure I couldn't keep up forever. Sooner or later I'd mess up and get
thrown out. But if it were just as easy for me to live in Heaven as it is for me
to live in this world, then for sure I'd never get thrown out of Heaven.

In other words: if only thinking, feeling, and acting like God came just as
natural to me as thinking, feeling, and acting like a human; then that would
be the cat's meow.
_

What you're referring to, in my estimation, is what will happen to us when we receive our Glorified bodies.

When that happens, we won't have to strive to obey, or battle temptations to sin, etc. anymore.

All the more clarity upon the fact that we DO have to strive and battle until that time comes, though.

 

[ScottA]

True salvation is being resurrected, cleansed with the blood of Christ (which happens after we die and are resurrected), and brought into heaven and given eternal life.

Anything more about salvation comes from the devil.

Ah...and where does leaving out the first resurrection (Revelation 20:6) come from?

Hint: the answer begins in Genesis. Genesis 3:1 John 8:44

 

[GEN2REV]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation, how it is procured, and how, even whether, it needs to be retained. There are threads all over the place discussing various aspects of the gospel from go to woe (perhaps an unfortunate pun) but what prompted this particular thread was a discussion between @mailmandan and @Bible Highlighter in the current Sabbath thread. This discussion is over the topic of sanctification, and whether such a concept is a works based process, or grace based process, whether it's a process at all or a declaration, and whether it's even necessary for salvation. So. Lots to talk about... Lots of questions... And I have to wonder to be honest why it is we are even finding it necessary to discuss this at all so late in Earth's history. But here we are. And we do need to discuss it. I think understanding how we are saved is kinda important don't you?

I don't want this to turn into a debate or argument however. (Fat chance though right). This is too important to go down the I'm right and you're wrong path. Let's try please to keep it as a true Bible study. And I do have another request. Can we please refrain from 29 paragraph posts. I don't want copy paste university PhD dissertations. Let's please keep it civil, respectful, maybe for those of us less enlightened... Enlightening. God bless you all as you contribute.

This is a needed topic and I have been studying out, and pondering, it for a while now.

I have come to the conclusion, based on Scripture, that Salvation is not the traditional concept we have all been fed. I believe that the Bible makes clear that it is the final product of a series of steps in a process that begins with the gift of faith. Ephesians 2:8 Some of us are given faith, which sends us irresistibly toward Jesus John 6:44 (The Bible - hopefully), which then ensues the quickening of our souls via the daily ingestion (daily Bread) of The Word John 6:63, John 6:68.

Then there is a question of what one will do at that point. Many disagree, but I am adamantly convinced that Matthew 7:21-23 presents to us Christians who have gone through the process thus far, but then (for one reason or another - likely lack of love for Truth and thus very little, if any, Bible study) chose not to obey the Commandments of God; becoming 'workers of iniquity.' That term is very specific, strongly implying the spreading of sin among Christians just as leaven (sin) is spread among dough (the body of Christ - the Bread) by the working of it into the dough through repeated mingling and mixing of it.

Therefore, there is a quickening that takes place, and then sanctification is a process (which includes baptism) of shedding any and all sinful habits and ways and also learning to obey God. If sanctification does not take place to an acceptable (to God) degree, the person is roughly only halfway through the process of Salvation.

All of the popular teaching that Salvation is instant upon our decision to believe is simply not supported by Scripture as a whole in the least.

Salvation is the final outcome for those who obey and endure to the very end.

 

[Enoch111]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation,

Salvation is synonymous with deliverance. so what are sinners (which includes all humanity) delivered from?

1. Salvation is deliverance from Hell (the Lake of Fire)
2. Salvation is deliverance from self (the power of the indwelling sin nature)
3. Salvation is deliverance from bondage to addictions of all kinds
4. Salvation is transference from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of Light
5. Salvation is deliverance from imperfection to perfection
6. Salvation is deliverance from mortality to immortality

When God saves a person He does many things for and to that person, therefore salvation is of the Lord. No man can save himself, therefore we are saved by God's grace through faith, and based upon the finished work of Christ.

So if you do not believe in eternal Hell (as many here have indicated), then there is no need to believe the Gospel either, and there is no need for salvation. "Let us eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die".

 

[ScottA]

This is a needed topic and I have been studying out, and pondering, it for a while now.

I have come to the conclusion, based on Scripture, that Salvation is not the traditional concept we have all been fed. I believe that the Bible makes clear that it is the final product of a series of steps in a process that begins with the gift of faith. Ephesians 2:8 Some of us are given faith, which sends us irresistibly toward Jesus John 6:44 (The Bible - hopefully), which then ensues the quickening of our souls via the daily ingestion (daily Bread) of The Word John 6:63, John 6:68.

Then there is a question of what one will do at that point. Many disagree, but I am adamantly convinced that Matthew 7:21-23 presents to us Christians who have gone through the process thus far, but then (for one reason or another - likely lack of love for Truth and thus very little, if any, Bible study) chose not to obey the Commandments of God; becoming 'workers of iniquity.' That term is very specific, strongly implying the spreading of sin among Christians just as leaven (sin) is spread among dough (the body of Christ - the Bread) by the working of it into the dough through repeated mingling and mixing of it.

Therefore, there is a quickening that takes place, and then sanctification is a process (which includes baptism) of shedding any and all sinful habits and ways and also learning to obey God. If sanctification does not take place to an acceptable (to God) degree, the person is roughly only halfway through the process of Salvation.

All of the popular teaching that Salvation is instant upon our decision to believe is simply not supported by Scripture as a whole in the least.

Salvation is the final outcome for those who obey and endure to the very end.

You are not accounting for the thief on the cross--just one example, who believed, then died with the promise of seeing Jesus that day in Paradise.

No ongoing "process", just believe and die. Period.

 

[Behold]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation,.

Jesus is Salvation.
IF He is in you, then that is how you are Saved., as its the only proof.

"what do you mean that Jesus is salvation ?.... What about works, and water baptism, and Mary, and commandment keeping, and Moses Law, and enduring to the end, and me hanging on the Cross trying to get God to accept me, as i confess sin and repent, and worry about hell".
Legalism is the highway to hell, as it does not TRUST IN CHRIST.

= That isn't Salvation, that is Religion.

Religion is you trying to do something to be like God, become God, or be accepted by God.
This is "Legalism", regarding the Christian context.

Salvation, is JESUS.
See that CROSS?
See that blood shed and DEATH of Christ on the CROSS?
There is your SALVATiON given....= 2000 yrs ago.
Do you have it yet?
Jesus is your Salvation, as He is the "Gift of Righteousness".
God will give it to you by Faith in Christ, and you will become a "new creation" "born again".. "in Christ"..."one with God".

Salvation is a "GIFT".....a free Gift."

 

[dev553344]

Ah...and where does leaving out the first resurrection (Revelation 20:6) come from?

Hint: the answer begins in Genesis. Genesis 3:1 John 8:44

Some will be resurrected to shame yes. But that's not what I referred to. I referred to those saved.