What the Law accomplished

[Randy Kluth]

The Scriptures indicate the Israel's wickedness at certain times rose to the highest level, bringing upon them their worst judgments. We read in Daniel that in the time of Messiah Israel's wickedness would be at its greatest.

Dan 9.24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin.

Over time, the Law had an impact on those in Israel whose commitment was mixed and fell short. Idolatry in the hearts of some Hebrews led to sin overtaking them, reducing them to carnal creatures who were selfish and ended up abusing others.

Rom 5.20 he Law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

The purpose of this Law was said to not only increase sin in some, but also to enhance grace in others. At the very time Israel was at its worst, rejecting Christ, some repented and accepted him, receiving grace in a time when Israel was most unworthy.

Rom 5.20 But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

The Law was very much intended to bring grace. But God knew that in order to bring grace into a fallen world He would have to offer it to all, to all Israel, and not just to a few who were faithful. God is impartial, and loves all.

In bringing the message of grace to all, He knew some would spurn His Law, and turn grace upside down. They would pursue the Law not in good faith, but as a cloak for their hidden sin, secretly doing what they wanted, and not turning over the idols of their hearts to God.

The Law became a weapon ending all hope for the wicked who rejected it. Those who turned against God's ways in favor of their own ways were viewed as law-breakers, unqualified for God's Kingdom under the Law.

But for those who pursued God's Law from the heart a way was found past the condemnation of the Law. The righteousness of the Law was found in the righteousness of Christ, who offered his righteousness to men apart from the Law so that by grace they would be clothed in his righteousness, innocent of sin. The Law could not condemn them as law-breakers, since they trusted in the righteousness that Christ was giving them.

 

[Enoch111]

Dan 9.24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin.

This verse applies to the future, when there will be no more sin on this earth. And the rest of the verse (which you left out) completes the picture. This did not happen at the first coming of Christ, since sin in rampant in the world right now. It will only happen when Christ establishes the eternal Kingdom of God on earth in the future.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This verse applies to the future, when there will be no more sin on this earth. And the rest of the verse (which you left out) completes the picture. This did not happen at the first coming of Christ, since sin in rampant in the world right now. It will only happen when Christ establishes the eternal Kingdom of God on earth in the future.

This is modern eschatology, the belief that what was said in early times, applying to those times, must somehow apply to the endtimes. I believe the 6 things mentioned in Dan 9.24, completing the 70 Weeks prophecy, were completed in the work of Christ. That's what the Early Church Fathers believed the passage meant. And in fact, 70 Weeks of years from Artaxerxes' decree in 457 takes us approx. to Jesus' earthly ministry, and to his death on the cross.

We are told, in Daniel, that this 70 Weeks period would lead to yet another judgment against Jerusalem. The earlier judgment was the Babylonian Judgment. This judgment would follow the "cutting off" of the Anointed One, or Christ. Indeed, in the same generation in which Christ was put to death Jerusalem fell to the Romans. That is what Dan 9 was speaking of, and that's what Jesus was speaking of in his Olivet Discourse. It is *not* always about the end of the age, although certainly it all will ultimately end there!

 

[quietthinker]

The Scriptures indicate the Israel's wickedness at certain times rose to the highest level, bringing upon them their worst judgments. We read in Daniel that in the time of Messiah Israel's wickedness would be at its greatest.

Dan 9.24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin.

Over time, the Law had an impact on those in Israel whose commitment was mixed and fell short. Idolatry in the hearts of some Hebrews led to sin overtaking them, reducing them to carnal creatures who were selfish and ended up abusing others.

Rom 5.20 he Law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

The purpose of this Law was said to not only increase sin in some, but also to enhance grace in others. At the very time Israel was at its worst, rejecting Christ, some repented and accepted him, receiving grace in a time when Israel was most unworthy.

Rom 5.20 But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

The Law was very much intended to bring grace. But God knew that in order to bring grace into a fallen world He would have to offer it to all, to all Israel, and not just to a few who were faithful. God is impartial, and loves all.

In bringing the message of grace to all, He knew some would spurn His Law, and turn grace upside down. They would pursue the Law not in good faith, but as a cloak for their hidden sin, secretly doing what they wanted, and not turning over the idols of their hearts to God.

The Law became a weapon ending all hope for the wicked who rejected it. Those who turned against God's ways in favor of their own ways were viewed as law-breakers, unqualified for God's Kingdom under the Law.

But for those who pursued God's Law from the heart a way was found past the condemnation of the Law. The righteousness of the Law was found in the righteousness of Christ, who offered his righteousness to men apart from the Law so that by grace they would be clothed in his righteousness, innocent of sin. The Law could not condemn them as law-breakers, since they trusted in the righteousness that Christ was giving them.

Righteousness was always by Law and always by Grace. Driving a dividing wedge between the two indicates a poor understanding of both Law and Grace. Jesus came to exemplify both. If that is not seen, the Gospel is not understood and whatever one holds as 'the gospel' apart from what has just been mentioned is what Paul refers to as 'another gospel'

 

[Keraz]

We are told, in Daniel, that this 70 Weeks period would lead to yet another judgment against Jerusalem. The earlier judgment was the Babylonian Judgment

We are told in Ezekiel 21:14, that the great 'Sword of slaughter' against Judah will strike three times.
1st; Babylon, 586 BC. Ezekiel 20:18-24
2nd; Rome, 70 to 135 AD. As the historical record, Josephus, etc, describes.
3rd: Yet to come, the Lord will send His fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5, Zephaniah 1:1-18, + 20 more graphically stated prophesies about the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Romans 9:27

You are quite wrong is asserting that the 70 'weeks' of Daniel are finished. Daniel 9:26 plainly says that at the end of the 69th, the Messiah will be cut off; that is: killed. There is no definitive 7 years period after that.
Plainly there is a gap, and only when Jesus Returns will the six tenets of Daniel 9:24, be fulfilled.

 

[mjrhealth]

Righteousness was always by Law and always by Grace. Driving a dividing wedge between the two indicates a poor understanding of both Law and Grace.

I think it is you that has a poor understanding of the law and grace. Our righteousness is in Christ not by any law.

 

[quietthinker]

I think it is you that has a poor understanding of the law and grace. Our righteousness is in Christ not by any law.

ohhhh, and the righteousness of Christ, where is that from? It certainly isn't derived from osmosis.

 

[Randy Kluth]

We are told in Ezekiel 21:14, that the great 'Sword of slaughter' against Judah will strike three times.
1st; Babylon, 586 BC. Ezekiel 20:18-24
2nd; Rome, 70 to 135 AD. As the historical record, Josephus, etc, describes.
3rd: Yet to come, the Lord will send His fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5, Zephaniah 1:1-18, + 20 more graphically stated prophesies about the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Romans 9:27

You are quite wrong is asserting that the 70 'weeks' of Daniel are finished. Daniel 9:26 plainly says that at the end of the 69th, the Messiah will be cut off; that is: killed. There is no definitive 7 years period after that.
Plainly there is a gap, and only when Jesus Returns will the six tenets of Daniel 9:24, be fulfilled.

I used to hold to this "gap theory," but finally rejected it as untenable precisely because it is untenable. Can you imagine if I said I'm coming to see you in 1 week and then show up 2 years later? And can you imagine that I insist I'm not late, that the last day of the week must be counted after a 2 year period?

 

[Enoch111]

Can you imagine if I said I'm coming to see you in 1 week and then show up 2 years later?

Except that God's concept of time is not the same as yours. As far as God is concerned only about six days have elapsed since creation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Except that God's concept of time is not the same as yours. As far as God is concerned only about six days have elapsed since creation.

Yes, God is timeless. And yet He created the turning of the earth to make 24 hour days. He knows how we count time. And He wouldn't mislead us by telling us some things will be fulfilled in 70 weeks, or 483 years, and then trick us by adding another 2000 years!

 

[Enoch111]

And He wouldn't mislead us by telling us some things will be fulfilled in 70 weeks, or 483 years, and then trick us by adding another 2000 years!

That's a foolish way to look at this. If God has built a gap into His plan He has every right to do so. He gave Noah's generation 120 years. He has given the world over 2,000 years. That is no a trick but a display of longsuffering. See 2 Peter 3.

 

[n2thelight]

It was nothing ever wrong with the law,man just couldn't obey it,also the law is not done away with

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's a foolish way to look at this. If God has built a gap into His plan He has every right to do so. He gave Noah's generation 120 years. He has given the world over 2,000 years. That is no a trick but a display of longsuffering. See 2 Peter 3.

I didn't say it was a trick that God has been longsuffering and has waited 2000 years before bringing universal judgment. I just said, specifically, that God would be tricking us if he said he was coming in the generation of Jesus and then skipped 2000 years to say he was still on time.

Jesus *never said* he was coming in his Kingdom at his 1st advent. He said he came to die, and to let other Kingdoms continue to reign in place of God's Kingdom until his 2nd advent.

What Jesus never said is that Daniel's 70 Weeks period remains unfulfilled, and that there is a temporary suspension of counting between the 69th and 70 Weeks! It would be more honest to say that from the decree of Artaxerxes to restore Jerusalem (457 BC) to the end of the age there will be approx. 2500 years, plus or minus, rather than claim there would only be approx. 490 years!

 

[mjrhealth]

ohhhh, and the righteousness of Christ, where is that from? It certainly isn't derived from osmosis.

Yes are certainly right, it comes from Him thats why it is called the righteousness of Christ and not the righteousness of the law,

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

But hold onto it if you must.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes are certainly right, it comes from Him thats why it is called the righteousness of Christ and not the righteousness of the law,

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Rom_3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

But hold onto it if you must.

It seems you have not defined righteousness

 

[mjrhealth]

It seems you have not defined righteousness

Well that you will have to ask Christ because everyone seems so confused about it, seems they think that if they have it, it makes their flesh perfect and so than they go and boast.

 

[quietthinker]

Well that you will have to ask Christ because everyone seems so confused about it, seems they think that if they have it, it makes their flesh perfect and so than they go and boast.

I have highlighted parts of your reply mjrhealth because you have taken liberties which consist only of conjecture. These liberties assume you know what others have decided about the matter.

If men cannot know what righteousness consists of how is it right for God to require it?......secondly, if you do not know what righteousness consists of all your positions stand on very shaky ground because you then cannot define what sin consists of either.

 

[mjrhealth]

I have highlighted parts of your reply mjrhealth because you have taken liberties which consist only of conjecture. These liberties assume you know what others have decided about the matter.

If men cannot know what righteousness consists of how is it right for God to require it?......secondly, if you do not know what righteousness consists of all your positions stand on very shaky ground because you then cannot define what sin consists of either.

YEs mens religions are not teh rock that our faith is built on, it is Christ, Righteousness is not the law.

 

[Trekson]

Dan. 9:24 has never been fully fulfilled, that is why it is still future. 90% don't count. It has to be a 100% or it's not fulfilled.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Dan. 9:24 has never been fully fulfilled, that is why it is still future. 90% don't count. It has to be a 100% or it's not fulfilled.

I find that all 6 items were fulfilled, 100%. The prophecy has to do with the end of Israel under the Law, when their sins became so bad that they rejected their own Messiah. That's when Jesus provided redemption and atonement for their sins. It was a major prophecy of the OT.

We know it was all fulfilled because immediately after the end of this 69.5 Week period, the city and the sanctuary was to be destroyed. This happened in 70 AD by the Roman Army. All 6 items promised in Dan 9.24 were fulfilled in the Messiah, Jesus.

Dan 9.24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The prophecy ranged from the restoration of Israel from the Babylonian Captivity to the time of Christ, from one destruction of Jerusalem to another, the other taking place in 70 AD.

It finished transgression by condemning for all time the sin of Israel under the Law. Their covenant with God under the Law of Moses was terminated, and under that system they were permanently divorced.

It put an end to sin because Israel was consigned to final punishment, and they were completely removed from their land as the people of God. No sin could be there because they were no longer there as God's People.

It atoned for wickedness because Christ died to show the full depth of Israel's sin, thereby satisfying God's rage against them. God showed the full extent of His contempt for Israel by allowing His own Son to be murdered, fully exposing their sin.

It brought in everlasting righteousness because Christ rose from the dead, establishing his righteousness in men for all time. It could never be expunged.

It fulfilled prophecy because it was foretold that Messiah would come to open up a way of righteousness to lead Israel to everlasting salvation.

It anointed the Most Holy because Jesus himself was anointed as the eternal temple of God, through whom all Israel could obtain redemption from sin.