What To Do About Grace

[manichunter]

In my endeavor to brainstorm. I started a thread concerning Grace Pimps, and this got me thinking about studying Grace. I mean studying it extensively. This topic causes a lot of disagreement, so let me get this out front.I suggest no work at. Absolutely no work of man has or can gain the merit of salvation. Would the word work be also considered an action verb, meaning to do something. I think we are over obsessed with and prejudice against the word "works", because any action word simple means to do something as the end act. Hence, love means to love, also suggestive of actions required in response to a desired reaction. The same can be said for obediance. Why does a child love and obey their parents, is it for works, no so........... or is it expected because of the nature of their relationship and identity within the family. In addition to the fact that they take upon the character of the family. I know what it means to be saved by grace. It means that I contributed zero to my possession of salvation and that I can do nothing to add to it. However, what next? How do I respond is what I am asking. Is there a work for me to do, I say no or believe the answer is no. I am of the tendency to believe that I should do what comes natural to my family identity, customs, and relations. God is my Father and I am His child, hence I obey as a child according the what my Father as told me to do. I am a member of a heavenly kingdom family, hence I should act like I am family, meaning following the customs of behavior that act as a signature and image of the family. I indeed should be an ambassador for the family by my behavior and conduct. The problem is, do I define my conduct as works or simply doing what is expected and learned second natureAre we so indoctrinated and bias against the works that we miss a point, meaning maybe we are not translating or interpreting the text right, moreover not seeing the complete picture by adding all of the Scripture line upon line.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Genesis 6:7-9(7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man and beast, and the creeping animal, and the fowls of the air; for I repent that I have made them.(8) But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.(9) These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.It can be argued from these verses that the reason Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD was because he was a lawful, righteous man, but this would imply that he deserved to be saved from the flood because of his works. Given that "GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually," (Gen 6:5), surely had His grace been given to the sinners would they not have repented? But here is the answer. We cannot force God to do what He ultimately decides not to, or not to do what He ultimately decides to do, so what we must do about God's grace is depend on it. God's grace has been made available to everyone through the sufficient perfect sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ, such is God's love, but not everyone will receive it because they do not believe they need it.Genesis 7:1(1) And the LORD said to Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark: for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.Some commentators see salvation from the flood by means of the ark as symbolic of the church being made up of those righteous in Christ who are saved from the Great Tribulation and also from death and hell.

 

[Mick]

This may not answer the question, but I just felt since the topic is about grace, we should take a look at one of the best songs ever written about grace. It was written by the band U2. You really should listen to it also (on youtube perhaps)I find it so nice. (Just as the writter of proverbs personifies wisdom, here Bono from U2 personifies grace, it's cool huh?)GraceShe takes the blameShe covers the shameRemoves the stainIt could be her nameGraceIt's a name for a girlIt's also a thought that changed the worldAnd when she walks on the streetYou can hear the stringsGrace finds goodness in everythingGrace, she's got the walkNot on a ramp or on chalkShe's got the time to talkShe travels outside of karmaShe travels outside of karmaWhen she goes to workYou can hear her stringsGrace finds beauty in everythingGrace, she carries a world on her hipsNo champagne flute for her lipsNo twirls or skips between her fingertipsShe carries a pearl in perfect conditionWhat once was hurtWhat once was frictionWhat left a markNo longer stingsBecause grace makes beautyOut of ugly thingsGrace makes beauty out of ugly thingsBlue skies,Mickwww.searchingforgrace.com

 

[HammerStone]

Well, my personal view about the discussion/argument of grace is that too soon it devolves into "Scripture Lawyer" discussions on both sides.Like some of what was said above, people get caught up on defining works and grace. The same Bible that talks about grace also (rather explicitly) says:

James 2:20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Grace means unmerited favor -- at least that is one of the best definitions I have ever heard. Well, we have to understand that grace is offered to all, but it is conditional that we believe, as the famous verse John 3:16 stipulates. This grace comes undeserved, but it is provided to us and only counts for us if we accept it, and by accepting it we do works.

John 3:16-17For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Guess what? We're not saved until Yeshua the Christ is our Savior.A couple verses later:

John 3:20-21For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Christians do because they love God. Show me a man that doesn't do anything for Christ (and a work can be many, many things) and I will show you someone dead in the faith. As Christians, we should want to further our Lord and bring others to Him. If you don't, you're missing the entire point of a Savior who gave himself up for you, me, and everyone else. We do works because we have the gift of grace and because we understand how valuable that gift is. We want to give it to others.

 

[Glenn]

When ever James is quoted Acts 21:18-26 should come into mind as far as what James was teaching; also Galatians 2:12, and 4:29-31; The James gang was what Paul refered to as the sons of hagar.Glen.

 

[epistemaniac]

I like the way Martin Luther put it...salvation is by grace alone, but not by a grace that is alone...of course salvation itself is, as you rightly say in the OP, solely by grace through faith, and this is itself a gift from God, what we might say is that grace is the root of salvation, and that works are the fruit... blessings,ken

 

[savedbygrace57]

stump says

God's grace has been made available to everyone through the sufficient perfect sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ,

This is false, Gods saving grace is never merely made available, Its given to the election of grace.. 2 tim 1: 9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, If one is not of the elect, God has no saving grace for them, they are vessels of wrath made for destruction in hell for their sins..

 

[epistemaniac]

theres grace and then theres grace.... rain falls on the just and unjust alike... so there is the point that unbelievers benefit in some ways from God's kindness, even if they are not of the elect....but I totally agree that grace in the salvific sense is reserved for the elect alone... after all, how can the Cross benefit those who have never heard? If belief on Christ is necessary for salvation, and it is, and there are no second chances after death, and there aren't, then those who have never heard of Christ cannot really said to benefit from His atoning sacrifice...the work of Jesus on the Cross is sufficient to save all, but that was not it's intent.. Christ did not intend for the Cross to be the propitiation/satisfaction of all the sins for everyone without exception, otherwise all would be saved; for on what basis is anyone lost except that it be for sin that was not atoned for? Some might say that they are lost because of their unbelief... quite so... for unbelief is in fact a sin.... but the Bible specifically commands us to believe on Christ to be saved... and thus, failure to do so is a sin, namely the sin of unbelief... but then we are back to saying that the work of Christ on the Cross cannot be for each and every sin for each and every person who has ever lived otherwise each and every person would in fact be saved, even those who do not believe because unbelief is just one more sin among many other sins! But all are not saved, so evidently there is a specific intent for the merits of Christ's work on the Cross.... namely that the merits of Christ are to be applied only to some.... these we call "the elect" or "the Bride of Christ"... blessings,ken

 

[Benoni]

Where does it say there are no chances after the grave; God is not calling all people now. Until God calls you you have no ability to come.

 

[Benoni]

Amen.. But what will the elect do with that grace? Be used for the remainder of all mankind. Acts 15:16 Book of Hebrews. Acts 15:17Rev. 1:6

2 tim 1: 9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, If one is not of the elect, God has no saving grace for them, they are vessels of wrath made for destruction in hell for their sins..

 

[savedbygrace57]

epist says:

theres grace and then theres grace....

No its not, thats man made up hogwash..

rain falls on the just and unjust alike... so there is the point that unbelievers benefit in some ways from God's kindness, even if they are not of the elect....

Sorry, but rain and sunshine has nothing to do with grace, grace is a spiritual power.. The elects long gevity is really not Gods kindness to them, but actually His curse, for the longer they live, the more sins they will be held accountable for..

 

[savedbygrace57]

epist says:

the work of Jesus on the Cross is sufficient to save all, but that was not it's intent..

The work of christ is not sufficient to save none but whom Gods intent was to save.. Jesus christ suffered just enough and proportioned in the Justice of God, to cancel out only the sins of the elect bride, and not one whit more..

 

[Brother Mike]

savedbygrace57:

The elects long gevity is really not Gods kindness to them, but actually His curse, for the longer they live, the more sins they will be held accountable for..

Psa 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. Psa 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation. Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Psa 34:12 What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good? Psa 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. I am so thankful that savedbygrace57 has shown me the error of my ways. Long life is a curse, because The Blood stopped working somewhere down the line and God is not as faithful and just to forgive sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness if we repent.What a awesome revelation!!!! I must tell my children to disobey me so they won't be cursed with long life, and I will start speaking garbage and evil. Long life is a Curse from God!!! I feel so foolish for not understanding the scriptures all this time. Silly me.Thank you savedbygrace57. Now how much it cost to be an "Elect" Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Helen]

I like the way Martin Luther put it...salvation is by grace alone, but not by a grace that is alone...of course salvation itself is, as you rightly say in the OP, solely by grace through faith, and this is itself a gift from God, what we might say is that grace is the root of salvation, and that works are the fruit... blessings,ken

Amen...what I good thread...what a pity that it didn't continue.
I really like the ..."..salvation is by grace alone, but not by a grace that is alone..."
Excellent. Grace is active .. It has easily been said that Grace is "divine favour"...and so it is, no one would argue with that...but, that is not only what grace is.
The root definition of grace that I read is:-
Grace = God's ability in you, to do what you cannot do. That is grace 'alive and well' working in and through us.