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What would you do?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    What would you do if God delivered your enemy into your hand?

    1 Samuel 24:4-20
    [4] And the men of David said unto him, Behold the day of which the Lord said unto thee, Behold, I will deliver thine enemy into thine hand, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good unto thee. Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily. [5] And it came to pass afterward, that David's heart smote him, because he had cut off Saul's skirt. [6] And he said unto his men, The Lord forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the Lord's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the Lord . [7] So David stayed his servants with these words, and suffered them not to rise against Saul. But Saul rose up out of the cave, and went on his way. [8] David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying, My lord the king. And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself. [9] And David said to Saul, Wherefore hearest thou men's words, saying, Behold, David seeketh thy hurt?

    [10] Behold, this day thine eyes have seen how that the Lord had delivered thee to day into mine hand in the cave: and some bade me kill thee: but mine eye (single) spared thee; and I said, I will not put forth mine hand against my lord; for he is the Lord's anointed. [11] Moreover, my father, see, yea, see the skirt of thy robe in my hand: for in that I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that there is neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it. [12] The Lord judge between me and thee, and the Lord avenge me of thee: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.

    [13] As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.

    [14] After whom is the king of Israel come out? after whom dost thou pursue? after a dead dog, after a flea. [15] The Lord therefore be judge, and judge between me and thee, and see, and plead my cause, and deliver me out of thine hand. [16] And it came to pass, when David had made an end of speaking these words unto Saul, that Saul said, Is this thy voice, my son David? And Saul lifted up his voice, and wept. [17] And he said to David, Thou art more righteous than I: for thou hast rewarded me good, whereas I have rewarded thee evil. [18] And thou hast shewed this day how that thou hast dealt well with me: forasmuch as when the Lord had delivered me into thine hand, thou killedst me not. [19] For if a man find his enemy, will he let him go well away? wherefore the Lord reward thee good for that thou hast done unto me this day.

    And now, behold, I know well that thou shalt surely be king, and that the kingdom of Israel shall be established in thine hand.
     
  2. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    I suspect I would use what appeared to be a God given advantage.
     
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  3. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    We are called to love our enemies; I would pray for wisdom
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    yup, takes two to fight
     
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  5. 7angels

    7angels Active Member

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    the answer biblically is to bless your enemies and leave it to God to punish them. sounds easy but it is not. most people would do the exact opposite.
     
  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I agree. It sounds easy but it is not. Mercy is hard.
     
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  7. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    really? and what of all the souls David slaughtered even after he toke the Throne? you know, David's and Israel's enemies. David didn't kill Saul because Saul was King of Israel and David (King to be) wouldn't slay him for that reason. because David wasn't the King's enemy though Saul was convinced otherwise because Saul thought to keep the throne for his own son Johnathan. and knew all to well that David was the anointed by Samuel as he was.

    disappointing very disappointing victoryinjesus.

    I'm surprised at you victoryinjesus, you use scripture to fit your own judgement of what Christianity is.
     
  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    No, I use scripture to fit His judgment which was upon you and me...as Mercy. God doesn't change.

    Matthew 5:44-48
    [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    1 John 4:17-18
    [17] Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. [18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    The perfect love is not ours ...but His.

    There is no fear in Christ; but Christ casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in Christ.

    I won't say I am disappointed in you because I am not. You are a man grounded in Christ and it is in you to want to defend those that are harmed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  9. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 50:1-9
    [1] Thus saith the Lord , Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away. [2] Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? when I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because there is no water, and dieth for thirst. [3] I clothe the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering. [4] The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. [5] The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. [6] I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. [7] For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. [8] He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me. [9] Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    the passage is not logical, at least to me, since cutting the skirt (which is symbolic) kind of makes the statement of David's intentions immediately; iow you wouldn't normally cut the skirt of an enemy you intended to run through with your sword in the next minute, would you? i mean what, for a trophy or something? "And it came to pass afterward" is also weirdly out of place, imo.

    of course you are making diff points here, so these are really irrelevant to that i guess, but still weird to me.
    Why did Ds heart smote him, iow, though? Because he had "cut off Saul's skirt." Iow to all appearances, was not going to ever even contemplate suffering anyone to "rise against" Saul. hmm.
     
  11. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    It is odd. If I had to guess and guessing does not always prove correct; smote in this case would mean convicted? Maybe this helps?


    2 Samuel 24:10-13
    [10] And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the Lord , I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O Lord , take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly. [11] For when David was up in the morning, the word of the Lord came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, [12] Go and say unto David, Thus saith the Lord , I offer thee three things ; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee. [13] So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me.


    Isaiah 57:15-19
    [15] For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place , with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. [16] For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. [17] For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart. [18] I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. [19] I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the Lord ; and I will heal him.
     
  12. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Possibly David's heart smote Him because He took Sauls authority by cutting off the hem of His skirt: now what will He do with this authority he has assumed? Possibly David murdered Saul in his heart.
     
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  13. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i dunno, i can't really get into it today, wish i could, but i'll prolly reflect on it for a couple days, and maybe get a clue. Seems to me your example below this snip is a different case, wherein D was obviously going counter to God, but i dunno
     
  14. Truth

    Truth Well-Known Member

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    First pray for the spirit to reveal a word of knowledge, for this happening, then if you receive the why, then pray for the spirit to give a word of wisdom, which would be how to deal and or react to this happening, if you receive the wisdom, then you will be able to act accordingly, all glory to our Savior, through the Spirit.
     
  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    hmm
     
  16. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I love the story of Elijah (or was it Elisha) who led an entire army of Syrians into the middle of the city where they were surrounded by the people of Israel. What did Israel do? They fed them and sent them home.
     
  17. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I have always thought that David's heart smote him because he had humiliated Saul..The King...God's anointed.
    David honoured the anointing.
    Saul was 'uncovered' and humiliated before his men. Here he is, the leader of his army...allowing the enemy to sneak right into camp and cut off his nightdress.. :D Red face I am sure. lol
     
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  18. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    Forgiving yourself can be harder than forgiving others. I'd be really surprised if everyone hasn't suffered self condemnation to some degree. We'd have all been in dire straits if we weren't at some point be able to forgive ourselves. You must, MUST first believe that God is big enough to forgive you before you can forgive yourself.

    A couple of years ago I told my wife a lie. It was about something that was going to hurt me. I couldn't stand it. About an hour later I told her the truth of this matter. She was entirely sympathetic and forgave me. As I prayed and asked God to forgive me he immediately gave me a scripture. He doesn't always respond that fast but He did then!

    Psalm 101:7 KJVS
    He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

    His rebuke was sufficient punishment. When you are in dwelled by the Holy Spirit lies appear as chunks of coal on a snowbank.

    Once again I had to ask forgiveness of others, the Lord and then be able to forgive myself.

    Some native American tribes believed that the conscience was in the shape of a triangle and that remained motionless unless you told a lie. Then it would begin to spin with those sharp corners causing pain. If you told many lies the corners wore off and became rounded, not causing so much pain. After continuing with lies it stopped hurting at all.

    Thank God for our sharp cornered consciences.

    Forgiveness is peculiar. We strive to forgive another and with God's help so do. When we remember the events we often feel as if we haven't forgiven them at all. When our daughter was killed with the aid of a drinking driver I wasn't certain I could ever forgive the man ever. It took a very long time to really believe that I had forgiven him. He was as I see it responsible for my daughter's death, his own and his twenty something daughter who was learning disabled. Three deaths.

    I no longer feel angry at him, only sorrow that three lives were snuffed out.

    Without God's help it would be impossible to forgive. If we have a willing heart then He will supply the love, anointing and ability to do so.

    2 Corinthians 8:12 KJVS
    For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

    Forgiveness is chief among all the things that God demands us to do. To be saved we have to be forgiven. To be forgiven we must ask.

    For those that have sinned against us we must forgive even though they do not ask.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  19. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    God can and does use our past sins to reach others. Before He saved me I was a liar, a thief, unfaithful, you name it. Where I grew up on west 12th street in Little Rock Arkansas in the 50's it was acceptable to get anything you could get by any means possible. I knew nothing of God.

    After being saved I was out in my shop one day and set eyes upon an item of reloading equipment That I had ripped off from a sporting goods store. As I fixed my gaze on that thing I knew that I had to take it back. No words, no scriptures came, just a knowing that I had to return it. Communication by the spirit.

    I went one day with that thing to the store and asked for the manager. The clerk that's him over there with a customer. Asking what his name was she replied "that's Mr. Eichenbaum."

    When he was free I introduced myself and explained the whole situation, including That Jesus had come and saved me and told me to come. Daniel Eichenbaum was an orthodox Jew. His father was one of the founders of one of the largest architectural engineering firms in the state, Jewish of course. "Earnhardt, Eichenbaum, Rausch and Blass.

    He then offered his hand which was refused before and told me he appreciated my deed. He asked about denomination and I told him I had no denomination, only that I was a follower of Jesus. There's a testimony friends whether you are forgiving them or they are forgiving you.

    We are often so caught up in what has been done to us that we overlook what we've done to others. My prayer is that I hurt no one in any way, blameless and harmless as a son of God.

    I wrote Daniel a long letter outlining those scriptures that clearly show Jesus is the long awaited Messiah of the Jews. One plants, one waters but God alone grants the increase, Amen.

    A few years later I saw Daniel's name in the newspaper. He was appointed Chairman of the governor's prayer breakfast. Daniel had become a Christian! I don't know his full testimony but it's not necessary. The lord knows. Amen

    SmartSelectImage_2018-02-21-09-27-19-321x151.png

    Daniel died in 2003. When you see a scripture from the book of Matthew on the headstone of a Jew something wonderful has happened.

    In forgiving or being forgiven great things happen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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