What's missing

[H. Richard]

What seems to be missing is that those that teach a child of God MUST have works to show their faith have hung the statement of James that “faith without works is dead” around the necks of those “IN CHRIST” who believe in Jesus‘ work on the cross.

To these we are just required to keep the law of good works and those works are defined by them with selected verses. Which is better, to be kind to others or to try and get them to see the salvation that Jesus paid for on the cross? Baring fruit for God isn’t a person glorifying in their own works; but glorifying the work on the cross. We are to witness to faith in Jesus’ work and not our own.

Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life? It seems to me that every time a person tries to reach out to God in faith the religious works crowd hangs the requirement of works around their neck.

I am completely aware that a child of God will be lead by the Holy Spirit to do what God wishes for them to do. But that is not what the works crowd wants. They want to determine the works others are to do. Doesn’t matter if those person’s are doing what God wants them to do.

Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong the religious works crowd still cling to their traditions. They will not see that placing their faith in works will not save them and as Paul writes they are under a curse. Why???? Because they trample under foot the “:completed” work of Jesus on the cross.

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

To me, it seems that, most can tell you about their faith in keeping commandment and picking up their cross of their works but they will not tell about their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. Many of the ones that testify that they have faith in Jesus’ work on the cross are even accused, by the works crowd, of not being saved by given them derogatory labels so they can accuse them of not having a true faith.

But to us who know that faith in what Jesus did on the cross is the only way to please God will never say we earn a place with God BECAUSE of our works. Now the works crowd will say that they are doing that too. If they are doing that too then way do they give statements like easy believes?

According to Paul, when a person adds works to grace they are under a curse. I, personally do not claim any works.. Does that mean I do not do any?? Off course not! It means I place no confidence in my works. If I have any God to knows it, not me.

But that is okay, I let others talk about how they keep Jesus’ commandment. But when, and if, they look into their hearts they would know they are not. I think God’s judgment on them for giving a boast in their own works while neglecting to boast in Jesus’ work will not bring a good out come.

But hey, that is just a person’s remarks that have been told that what I believe in is easy believism. So faith in Jesus’ work on the cross is just easy believism. So get out there and do your works.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I am completely aware that a child of God will be lead by the Holy Spirit to do what God wishes for them to do

Jesus gave us a command that we should love as he has loved. It is not a case of what God 'wishes' but of obedience to his orders.

Does God contradict himself? Does he tell his chosen people to break his moral laws?
He certainly tells us to obey him rather than men.

So is living in obedience to Gods moral laws, living by 'works'?
Not every Christian recieves messages or instructions from God to go and do.......
Most Christians live there lives in ordinary ways.

 

[bbyrd009]

there is a difference in "works of the law" and "you works will be judged" that rarely or never comes out in these threads imo.
i agree that faith is definitely all you need, and i also agree that faith without works is dead. And it should be apparent that even if you adhere to the first Scriptural concept and deny the second Scriptural truth, that nonetheless you will be doing works today, you will be doing work just reading this, and it is your works that will be judged, just like Scripture says.

even staying in bed all day and refusing to do any works is still doing a work, that will be judged

 

[Davy]

Jesus gave us a command that we should love as he has loved. It is not a case of what God 'wishes' but of obedience to his orders.

Does God contradict himself? Does he tell his chosen people to break his moral laws?
He certainly tells us to obey him rather than men.

So is living in obedience to Gods moral laws, living by 'works'?
Not every Christian recieves messages or instructions from God to go and do.......
Most Christians live there lives in ordinary ways.

Yes, but you should have also caught what Richard said with,

"Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong the religious works crowd still cling to their traditions."

Apostle James was speaking to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, which specifically was about the Christian Church they belonged to. James certainly was NOT addressing the unbelieving Jews! Thus what James wrote definitely applies to the whole Church too.

Faith without works is dead, what James taught, and is true. It's because like our Lord Jesus said, where our heart is that's where our treasure will be. Likewise true Faith cannot help but have works in Christ. It's a natural by-product of Faith.

So WHO would want to argue against the Church having works to go along with their Faith? Not in place of Faith, but along with their Faith? That would be an antichrist that would argue against having the works as a by-product of faith. That is what James was talking about concerning works.

 

[Windmill Charge]

That would be an antichrist that would argue against having the works as a by-product of faith.

No it is biblical as per eph 2:10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Faith in Jesus is always first, then as a result of that faith we do good works.

If it was the other way round we would be earning our salvation.

 

[Davy]

No it is biblical as per eph 2:10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Faith in Jesus is always first, then as a result of that faith we do good works.

If it was the other way round we would be earning our salvation.

I don't think you understood the meaning of the word 'by-product' that I used. When works are a by-product, it means it did not come first. So basically, you only repeated what I said in the first place.

Please brethren, read my posts more carefully instead of assuming I said something I didn't.

 

[H. Richard]

Jesus gave us a command that we should love as he has loved. It is not a case of what God 'wishes' but of obedience to his orders.

Does God contradict himself? Does he tell his chosen people to break his moral laws?
He certainly tells us to obey him rather than men.

So is living in obedience to Gods moral laws, living by 'works'?
Not every Christian recieves messages or instructions from God to go and do.......
Most Christians live there lives in ordinary ways.

*** Jesus never told a Gentile that they were to keep the law of Moses. As a mater of scripture He said He only came to the house of Israel.

But I can see that the religious base their theology on His coming to the Gentiles too. To bad that the scriptures don't support that false teaching.

 

[H. Richard]

I don't think you understood the meaning of the word 'by-product' that I used. When works are a by-product, it means it did not come first. So basically, you only repeated what I said in the first place.

Please brethren, read my posts more carefully instead of assuming I said something I didn't.

***

Why should he, you don't.

 

[Davy]

***

Why should he, you don't.

Sorry to make you angry by showing how your doctrine of men you brought here is all corrupt and kaput. But facts are facts, there is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, not two, like the lie you came here to push.

 

[Windmill Charge]

*** Jesus never told a Gentile that they were to keep the law of Moses. As a mater of scripture He said He only came to the house of Israel.

But I can see that the religious base their theology on His coming to the Gentiles too. To bad that the scriptures don't support that false teaching.

I have not said that people must keep the 10C.
I've asked the question is keeping the 10C works or simple being obedient to Jesus?

 

[H. Richard]

Sorry to make you angry by showing how your doctrine of men you brought here is all corrupt and kaput. But facts are facts, there is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, not two, like the lie you came here to push.

***
Davy, read Acts 21:20 - and you will see, if not blind, that James was not teaching the same gospel of grace that Paul was teaching. You will have to notice that the believing Jews were okay with what James was teaching but they were going to kill Paul for what he was teaching. Can you explain why since you say they were teaching the same gospel?

 

[bbyrd009]

*** Jesus never told a Gentile that they were to keep the law of Moses. As a mater of scripture He said He only came to the house of Israel.

But I can see that the religious base their theology on His coming to the Gentiles too. To bad that the scriptures don't support that false teaching.

no Jew or Gentile in the kingdom

i never got how you address this and the others, HR? surely you have come to some accommodation with them, what might it be? ty

 

[H. Richard]

no Jew or Gentile in the kingdom

i never got how you address this and the others, HR? surely you have come to some accommodation with them, what might it be? ty

***

When Jesus came the law was in effect for Israel. The Gentiles were not under the law of Moses. There was never a covenant made to the Gentiles.. After the cross the law was satisfied by the blood of Jesus Christ for all men. Only after the cross are there neither Jew or Gentile because Jesus satisfied the law of Moses for both Jew and Gentile. I think I told you ths before.

 

[bbyrd009]

***

When Jesus came the law was in effect for Israel. The Gentiles were not under the law of Moses. There was never a covenant made to the Gentiles.. After the cross the law was satisfied by the blood of Jesus Christ for all men. Only after the cross are there neither Jew or Gentile because Jesus satisfied the law of Moses for both Jew and Gentile. I think I told you ths before.

ya, and i'm still not buyin it wadr, especially if what you are saying is that you are somehow "freed" from having to obey the law?

 

[H. Richard]

ya, and i'm still not buyin it wadr, especially if what you are saying is that you are somehow "freed" from having to obey the law?

***

If we are not free from obeying the law then no one is going to Heaven because all mankind still sins in the flesh. Have you not read where the Apostles asked Jesus who can be saved and Jesus' answer?

Matt 19:23-26
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV

God did what mankind could not do when He, Himself, Paid for all the sins of the world. It saddens me that you just can't put your faith in What God has done for you.

 

[bbyrd009]

If we are not free from obeying the law then no one is going to Heaven because all mankind still sins in the flesh.

yikes, what a mess this is HR.

Have you not read where the Apostles asked Jesus who can be saved and Jesus' answer?

yes, but i would certainly interpret these very differently than you have, guided by the copious other Scripture available, HR.
Your perspective ignores or outright denies everything from "Heaven forbid" to "not one jot or tittle," to even denying that the Law is deemed Holy in Scripture, whereas even Scripture Itself is not--and wadr imo you are currently manifesting exactly why that is so.

The Book says that you will be considered least in the kingdom for teaching this, too, right?

And wadr i'm pretty sure this Mithraist perspective of going some "place" you call heaven after you die is part and parcel with all that.
When did Christians start becoming convinced that they could somehow get the part of them that is so obviously supposed to "die, daily" into some place called "heaven," after they have died?

the fact that most men "still sin" does not keep them from heaven at all, just as believing that Jesus died for your unrepentant sins will not grant you entrance, either. Confession is made unto salvation, not belief.

and implying or teaching that Jesus somehow paid for someone's future unrepented sins so they don't even have to obey laws
is really nothing short of criminal tbh. "It is finished" is completely warped with this perspective at the very least, and you make yourself a "scofflaw" here, and i am a committed Anarchist ok, so pls understand

 

[bbyrd009]

God did what mankind could not do when He, Himself, Paid for all the sins of the world. It saddens me that you just can't put your faith in What God has done for you.

Christ made a path to salvation, and your belief that a little altar profession will somehow cover you for life is a lie from the pit of hell, HR.

as has already been demonstrated like twice in the last 6 months or so here, the fact that God has forgiven you of all your sins will not avail you in that day when you cannot stand in the fire for shame. And anyone checking out Job's feed for the last day he was here can even read it plain.

happy Passover to you, or Fertility Day or whatever

 

[bbyrd009]

you seem like a very good-hearted person, ok, prolly better than me; i hope you discover what is missing there


"If we are not free from obeying the law then no one is going to Heaven because all mankind still sins in the flesh.
God did what mankind could not do when He, Himself, Paid for all the sins of the world"

this is warped stuff, ok, even if it can be made to sound like truth

 

[bbyrd009]

"Heaven forbid" to "not one jot or tittle," to even denying that the Law is deemed Holy in Scripture, whereas even Scripture Itself is not--and wadr imo you are currently manifesting exactly why that is so.

The Book says that you will be considered least in the kingdom for teaching this, too, right?

and you don't even have to trust me, ok, all you have to do is ignore these again, and then look in the mirror