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When did Jesus really enter into hell?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by afaithfulone4u, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. afaithfulone4u

    afaithfulone4u New Member

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    It may surprise you to know that it was not after he was forsaken and died on the cross... it was the very moment that he was handed over to sinful man when he was betrayed in the garden of Gethsemane and he rose on the 3rd day from that very evening. He was placed in the tomb at sundown Friday which was the evening of the 7th day and arose on Saturday morning.
    That is how the Passover Lamb is rehearsed and that is how he fulfilled it. Then he appeared to Mary just as the Sabbath daytime was ending at sundown on the 7th day and as it dawned into the EVE of the 1st DAY(not daytime)of the week as the sun set on Saturday. So if Jesus was handed over to the hands of the tormentors from hell Tuesday Eve(Wednesday) which would have been the dawn of a new day of the week since the Jewish days begin at sundown or evening so Day 1, then at sundown Wednesday Evening(Thursday) Day 2, Friday Evening(Saturday7th day) Day 3 and arose on Saturday.
    There is not supposed to be any of the Passover Lamb left come sunrise the Sabbath day that is why he arose the morning of the seventh day.

    From Tuesday Evening (Wednesday) till Friday Evening(Saturday Sabbath 7th day) is 3 days that he was in hell in the hands of UNGODLY MEN. Friday is the preparation day for the roasting of the Lamb, that is when Jesus was bound to the cross and roasted(mocked, spit on, etc...).
    Luke 24:7
    7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
    KJV

    It does not say he will arise on the third day AFTER his crucifixion, it just says on the third day after he is handed over to the hands of sinful man in which they tortured then killed him.

    Ex 16:23-24
    23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
    24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
    KJV
    Jesus is also the True MANNA which was to be collected double on the 6th day just before the Sabbath.
    John 6:57-58
    57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
    58 This is that bread (BREAD OF LIFE, WORD OF LIFE)which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
    KJV


    Ex 12:6-10
    6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
    7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
    8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
    9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
    10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
    KJV
     
  2. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist Member

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    Jesus died on the Friday, And rose on the Sunday, Making it the 3rd day. [Friday, [1st] Saturday,[2nd] Sundau [3rd].
    Jesus went to hell after He was forsaken by God,[On the cross], Spirtitual death is seperation from God, And the penalty for spiritual death, Is hell.
    In order to "Rise again", One must first have died. And we know Jesus died on the Friday.
     
    the stranger likes this.
  3. day

    day New Member

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    There really isn't any way to get "three days and three nights" between Friday afternoon and Sunday sunrise. However our commemoration of Jesus suffering and death on Good Friday, his burial and decent among the dead on Holy Saturday, and his resurrection on Easter Sunday, does honor the three significant elements involved.
     
  4. williemac

    williemac New Member

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    There is a website available that explains the three days and nights, and just when Jesus died and when He rose again.

    The page is entitled "the chronology of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection."

    He did not die on a Friday. There is more than one kind of sabbath. Thursday was called a high sabbath. Therefore He likely died on Wednesday and rose again on Saturday after six o'clock, which is the official end of the seventh day sabbath. You can find exactly three full days and three full nights in this equation.
     
  5. afaithfulone4u

    afaithfulone4u New Member

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    I am sorry but you must keep in mind that the Jewish day begins at sundown. He was placed in the tomb before Friday sun down because the Sabbath was about to begin and he arose before the morning on the 7th day just as the Passover Lamb is rehearsed and appeared to the disciples in the evening of Saturday being the dawn/beginning of the 1st day of the week after the sun set.
    Matt 28:1-2
    28:1 In the end of the Sabbath{SUNDOWN SATURDAY}, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
    KJV
    John 20:17-19
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
    19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    KJV

    If this meant Sunday Evening... then that would have been considered MONDAY.

    As we can see even Paul continued the Saturday Evening meeting with the disciples and he preached unto them until midnight. Why would Paul preach from sun up to midnight.. kind a long don't you think? Saturday evening is the time that the church is to be meeting just like the disciples did and it was called UPON as in the beginning of the first DAY of the week not the first daylight. Evening and morning 1DAY.
    Gen 1:5 And the evening and the morning were the first day.
    KJV

    Acts 20:7-8
    7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
    8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
    KJV
     
  6. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist Member

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    I never said Jesus was dead for three days, I said, "Making it the third day"
    Not true. Acccording to the Bible.
    The new day starts at 12 am, So the "Dawn" was the Sunday morning. Friday, [1st day], Saturday, The Sabbath [2nd day]
    Sunday 3rd day].
     
  7. afaithfulone4u

    afaithfulone4u New Member

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    Dawn here means the beginning of a new day and the new day of the week began and still begins at sundown between 3-6pm on the Jewish calendar. It did not say AT dawn it says as it BEGAN TO dawn TOWARDS the first DAY OF THE WEEK, not as in the first daylight of the Day.
    2 Peter 1:19-21
    19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
    20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
    KJV
    Matt 28:1
    28:1 In THE END of the sabbath, as it BEGAN to dawn TOWARD the first day of the WEEK, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    KJV

    The word Dawn only appears twice as shown above in the Bible and the first one shown is the LIGHT being Jesus the Word of God in our hearts to rid us of the darkness in our hearts. And the second one means the beginning of a new day OF THE WEEK.
    When Mary came at the end of the Sabbath being 3-6pm Saturday.. Jesus had already risen. Why would they wait until 12 hours after the Sabbath to come to the tomb? The only reason that they did not go directly to apply the spices to his body on Friday evening is because it was forbidden because the Sabbath began. So they anxiously awaited the Sabbath to end to come at the dawning of a new day that began at SUNSET.
    Here is scripture that shows Jesus told them that he would enter into hell(hands of the Gentiles meaning anyone who rejected the Word at his appearing rather they were called Jew or Gentile for only those who believe upon the Word being circumcised in heart are called Jews, rather Jew or Gentile.

    Notice he did not say then 3 days after I die I will arise... he said on the 3rd day after suffering in hell by the hands of man who end up killing me will I rise..... Jesus said let the dead bury their own DEAD, hell is on earth in the lower parts or lower life forms that suffer in the torments of hellish daily living, due to their rejection of God's Word to LIVE BY.

    Luke 18:31-33
    31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
    32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
    33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
    KJV

    We have just ASS-UMED that it meant after his death that he was dead for 3 days.. but death comes when we suffer in life for disobeying God's Voice and we suffer at the hands of evil man. He knew NO SIN but became sin for oursakes and suffered in the hands of hellish man being the walking Dead in the lake of fire or in HOT WATER with God.
     
  8. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist Member

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    Your theology is wrong, You have overlooked the fact that it was early sunday morning, Mk 16: 1--2. Lk 24: 1-3. Jn 20: 1.

    Jesus died on the Friday, And rose on the Sunday, He went to hell after He died, [Forsaken by God, "Spiritual death"].
     
  9. The_highwayman

    The_highwayman New Member

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    AlanforChrist:
    How could Jesus have been on the cross on Friday, and died and been in the tomb for 3 days & 3 Nights (See Matt 12.40) and resurrected on the first day of the Week, which is Sunday?
    You also leave out the hebrew calendar and the fact Jesus laid himself down on the cross shortly before passover. If oyu look at the passover cleasning laws and the Hebrew calendar, you might learn something new.
     
  10. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist Member

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    I have never said Jesus was in the tomb and hell for three days and three nights. Jesus was raised up on the third days, Not after three days.
    Friday evening was the first day, Saturday was the second day, And early Sunday morning was the third day, And that doesn't make three whole day and nights.
     
  11. the stranger

    the stranger New Member

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    This is a post I made on another site with nearly the same topic in mind.

    ------------
    QUESTIONS FOR THOSE STILL HOLDING ONTO A 72 HOUR DURATION OF CHRIST IN THE TOMB.

    (1) WHAT DO YOU DO WITH CLEAR SCRIPTURE GIVEN THAT SHOWS THREE NIGHTS AND THREE DAYS ARE LESS THAN A 72 HOUR PERIOD? 1 Samuel 30:12-13; Esther 4:16, 5:1

    1 Samuel 30:12 And they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins: and when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him: for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights.

    30:13 And David said unto him, To whom belongest thou? and whence art thou? And he said, I am a young man of Egypt, servant to an Amalekite; and my master left me, because three days agone I fell sick.


    Esther 4:16 Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.

    Esther 5:1 Now it came to pass on the third day, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house, over against the gate of the house.

    These give clear wording to what the term three days and three nights CAN mean in Hebrew languish. In the first example, if three days and three nights had passed he would of became sick four days agone. In the second, the wording is slightly different, but still gives clear indication of a three day and three night period.

    Also again, this verse

    Matthew 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, 63Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. 64Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

    This verse is also interesting to note due to the tomb requested to be guarded UNTIL THE THIRD DAY, and not the fourth day. It is impossible to tie scripture together without knowing this clear meaning.


    These verses make clear the meaning not only need not mean 72 hours, but along with other scripture, it cannot mean such.


    (2) WHAT DO YOU DO WITH CLEAR JEWISH SUPPORT FOR A DAY AND NIGHT NOT NEEDED TO COUNT OR WAS UNDERSTOOD TO MEAN A FULL 24 HOUR PERIOD? Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3, as quoted in Hoehner, 1974, pp. 248-249, bracketed comment in orig. Jewish Encyclopedia, Volume 4, page 475.


    Around the end of the 1st century, rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah said, "A day and night are an Onah ['a portion of time'] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it" (Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3). In other words, he stated the Jewish terminology regarding time, that being that even a part of day, even "a portion of time," is considered to be the same "as the whole of it."

    "A short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though, of the first day only a few minutes after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day." Jewish Encyclopedia, Volume 4, page 475.


    (3) WHAT DO YOU DO WITH JESUS STATING (Matt. 20:19) ON THE THIRD DAY HE WILL BE RAISED TO LIFE AFTER HE SPEAKS OF THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH?

    These questioned must be answered in an understandable easy way with proof for back up before we can easily be able to move forward as this is I believe one of the biggest "keys" for not believing in a Friday crucifixion.


    Jesus was crucified at the same time the lambs were sacrificed according with the Sadducees which controlled the temple on the 15th. The Passover was held two days due to time differences or interpretations. The system of reckoning by Jesus and followers (Pharisees) was sunrise to sunrise. Days can be seen in either regard from sunset to sunset in Gen. 1:5; Exodus 12:18 and the sunrise to sunrise in Gen. 8:22; 1 Samuel 19:11. Because of these time differences the 14th was different days to different people, thus two Passovers were held. Though this is not 100% certain it does find evidence in some sources. It certainly explains the difference between John and the rest of the gospels. If so, Jesus fulfilled the Passover right on time.

    Here are a few more time differences shown. sunrise to sunrise - Gen. 19:34 Josephus Antiquities 3.248 -- sunset to sunset Lev.23:27 Deut. 16:4 It is believed the Jesus home region observed sunrise to sunrise.

    Concerning the Passovers, it is known from Numbers 9:1-14 that there were two Passovers separated by a month for those who were not clean for the first. Today the Jewish have two Passovers. One for the Jewish living in Israel and the next day one for Jewish living else where. This was based on knowing the exact time (or rather not knowing the exact time) and this can be found everywhere. In the Mishnah the area devoted to the Passover is titled Pesahim meaning Passovers.
    It should also be noted that the difference in time was allowed by the temple leaders due to the volume of people that came to the Passover. It is believed the city at that time held only a small fraction of the millions that came for Passover every year thus perhaps making it a needed thing to have two Passovers.

    All of this is speculating and has no absolute foundation but it does make the timing perfect for the fulfillment of the Passover and fits with all of the other gospels. Thus I believe this certainly does make for a good possibility, but there are other possibilities out there as well.


    Concerning which Sabbath -- If this was not the seventh day of the week Sabbath, Luke 23:56 would not say the woman rested according to the commandment, as not only does that refer to the ten commandments but because only general work or labor was restricted on other Sabbaths it wold seem the woman could of did this ritual a day earlier and would of not needed to hurry as such like they did.

    Hopefully I did not leave anything out with this re editing. :) God bless everyone. Have a great night. In the mean time, I think I will stick to the ole Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection. :)
     
  12. afaithfulone4u

    afaithfulone4u New Member

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    Greetings the stranger,
    When you keep in mind that the Jewish Day began at sundown and not midnight as the Gentile calendar and you remember that Jesus who hand no hands placed on him until the day Wednesday sundown being now the dawn of a new DAY OF THE WEEK( Thursday) when after he told the disciples that he was going to be handed over to men, when he also excused Judas to go and do what was going to be his betrayal in the garden of Gethsemane after the LAST SUPPER on The FIRST evening being Wednesday which is now become Thursday at sundown eve1, then Thursday daytime 1 1ST FULL DAY
    Thursday eve would have been FRIDAY eve2, then Friday daytime 2 2nd FULL DAY
    Friday eve would have been SATURDAY eve3, then Saturday daytime 3 3rd FULL DAY that he arose ON the 3rd day just as the Sabbath was ending and appeared to Mary at the end of the Sabbath day when the first chance to come to the tomb was due to the Sabbath law.

    If you read the story of them being told to watch the tomb you will see they TOO thought he meant 3 days after being dead for they had no understanding either, but you will notice that the first night is all they had to watch for he did not stay in the tomb more than 1 evening. It says they began to watch the next day that follows Friday being the day of preparation and that is Saturday, yet again we must remember that the evening of Friday was the NEXT DAY for it was the beginning of the 7th DAY of the WEEK. So Friday evening began the next day and that is the first and only evening that they guarded the tomb because at the END OF THE SABBATH {Saturday Sundown} now being Sunday the First DAY of the WEEK Mary came right away but he had already risen. He arose on Saturday probably close to sundown and appeared to the disciples in the evening of Saturday being Sunday the first day of the week yet until midnight on the Gentile calendar it is still THE SABBATH until midnight so that is when believers should be meeting just as the disciples did, Saturday between sundown to midnight still the 7th day of Rest.

    Also don't let the word EARLY confuse you, if the day began at sundown and ended the following sundown. Would you say that 6 am is early in the 24 hr day? No you wouldn't, the 24 hr day would have been 1/2 spent at 6 am so it would have been mid day. So when it says Jesus arose EARLY on the first day of the WEEK it had to mean at sundown for that is the earliest time of the 24hr day that begins at sundown, not early in the daylight time, but early in the 24 hr day.
    Blessings

    Matt 27:61-28:15
    61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
    62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
    63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

    64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
    65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
    66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
    Matthew 28
    28:1 In the end of the Sabbath{SUNDOWN SATURDAY}, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week {AS IN A DAY. NOT DAYTIME}, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
    3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
    4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
    5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
    6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
    7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

    8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
    9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
    10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
    11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
    12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
    13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
    14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
    15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
    KJV
     
  13. the stranger

    the stranger New Member

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    Dear Faithfulone. Thank you for your response. I am struggling a bit to see what you are saying so you may have to correct me if I misunderstand you in my responses.

    I am quickly going to share my timing backed up with scripture for a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection. After you see this, can or could you do the same thing for me? I am reading your response but I can find little to go by other than your own words. Help me out with a little if you could.

    (1) On the first day of the feast of the unleavened bread -- "where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" (When it was customary to sacrifice the Passover Lamb) Matt. 26:17 ; Mark 14:12 ; Luke 22:7 ; John 13:1 with John 13:29 God established this day on the 14th. Numbers 12:18 Though today Jewish regard the 15th as the start of the feast. It is believed even at this day there was a disagreement as to what day to celebrate in regards to the angels protection from their first born of the 14th or in their day of liberation on the 15th. Leviticus 23:4-6 Numbers 28:16-17 Just more insight on the biblical day of the start of the feast.

    Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying: 'On the tenth day of this month every man shall take for himself a lamb, according to the house of his father, a lamb for a household. And if the household is too small for the lamb, let him and his neighbor next to his house take it according to the number of the persons; according to each man's need you shall make your count for the lamb. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats. Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight. And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it. Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. Do not eat it raw, nor boiled at all with water, but roasted in fire--its head with its legs and its entrails. You shall let none of it remain until morning, and what remains of it until morning you shall burn with fire. And thus you shall eat it: with a belt on your waist, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. So you shall eat it in haste. It is the LORD's Passover (Exodus 12:3-11, NKJV throughout, unless indicated). This copied portion came from http://www.cogwriter.com/passover_on_the_fourteenth_or_fifteenth.htm

    The confusion could rest on Exodus 12:42 Exodus 12:43 which seems to indicate the Passover starting on the 15th, the day of their liberation, which, in effect, could be the confusion still holding today. At any rate, as shown before, for whatever reasons, two days were celebrated for the Passover, with disagreements at to which one was right.

    Thus, if the 14th and 15th are of the only two possibilities of Christ eating Passover, and the 16th being the Sabbath, it then had to be the 14th (early 15th) that Jesus ate the Passover.

    (2) The 15th, the day of Christ crucifixion: John 19:31 Mark 15:42 Luke 23:54 John 19:42 Preparation day, the day before the Sabbath. As explained in my last post, this could not have been any other Sabbath then the seventh day sabbath.

    (3) Sunday, the 17th, the day of the resurrection. Matthew 28:1 Mark 16:2 Luke 24:1 John 20:1 All stating the first day of the week. All four gospels agree with this timing. The only confusion rest with those who think they must believe in a 72 hour duration and those who do not understand that there were two days celebrated for the Passover meal.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We agree, though differences were understood in the timing of the day, that traditionally, the start of the new day was just after sunset, but again, as shown earlier in my last post, times sometimes were understood to be different and not always did scripture reflect on the sunset to sunset timeline nor is it believed all Jewish had this as their time keeping. We disagree on when Jesus was arrested. It was indeed, after sunset, but on the morning of Friday the 15th.

    Concerning the days and times. I cannot see where they are coming from. Could you explain further with scripture?

    First, I agree with the fact the tomb was only guarded one evening. I also believe, that it is possible they believed they would had to remain there until Monday morning, as there is one time in scripture where three nights and three days are noted as to being the fourth day, but only one time this can be seen, so yes, it is quite possible the guards had expected to possibly stay until the morning of Monday. However, if it was only understood to be of Monday morning, there would of been no reason to place the guards there that afternoon. (Saturday)

    However, Jesus could not of arose on the Sabbath, the day of Saturday, the 16th. Matthew places the earthquake AFTER the Sabbath. At least if one is reading Matthew and understanding Matthew in the order in which it is written, and more so along with Jesus own predictions of rising on the third day instead of the fourth day. It seems Jesus may of arose as late as the crack of dawn on Sunday because the woman did not leave out until that time. However, in regards to John 20:1 one may determine Jesus arose during the night time hours. (early morning of while still being dark) However, in Matthew 28:11 it seems the first possibility is more real or probable. Also look in this same passage Matthew 28:13 where the priest calls the prier dark hours, the morning of Sunday, the night!! Indicating again the understanding that scripture does not always place a day from sunset to sunset. PS That is not when the disciples met.

    I see what you are trying to say here. Here is the issue though. As I already have shown, scripture does not always, and in fact, often does not, word their wording in accordance with a sunset to sunset day, and along with this comes Mark 16:2 which clearly states it was AFTER the sun began to rise. Also, it is NEVER called morning (such in Luke 24:1 ) to refer to the period of the day which was dark or called night. Thus Jesus states there is 12 hours and a day and there is night, never is this time called night called morning. Further more, http://biblesuite.com/greek/2020.htm Almost all definitions put the meaning of this word as the beginning of light, and not the beginning, as in a new 24 hour period.



    God bless and thank you very much for your response. It is always such a blessing to be learning more and more of Gods word. I will be going back through your response again just to make sure I tried to answer all of your questions and concerns, and if needed, will re edit later. Have a blessed Sunday.
    I just want to add a couple scriptures as so we can see different possibilities for different times of the day versing always being a sunset to sunset timeline, even though that was the officially recognized day by the rulers of the temple of the day.
    NIGHT
    Luke 21:37
    John 19:39
    John 13:30 (night, after sunset, after the Passover meal, Judas went out to betray Jesus. The official start of Friday.
    Matthew 21:17
    MORNING
    Mark 1:35 Sometimes morning could mean while it was still dark, but probably around 4am or so, and not at 11pm.
    Dawn, however, always regards the morning after or at sunrise.
    EVENING
    Mark 1:32 is interesting as it regards evening after sunset though most scripture speaks of it being before sunset.

    I will not go with any more but my point is we cannot regard every scripture as a sunset to sunset time frame. We have to put every scripture in the context of what it is written and in comparison to other passages that may relate to the same story.

    God bless
     
  14. the stranger

    the stranger New Member

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    Mark 8:31 Mark 9:31 Mark 10:34 Matthew 27:63 1 Corinthians 15:4 Luke 24:21 All of these show your statement is false. Jesus was crucified, then on the third day after His crucifixion, Jesus arose again.
    Mark 16:9 Wrong my friend. All other scripture states the first day of the week is when they went to the tomb to find it empty.

    Numbers 9:11 Numbers 9:12 There was to be no meat left after the meal. By daybreak no more should be left. By using this is your time line with scripture Jesus would of been being eaten on the cross until He was completely eaten before sunrise. Nope, I do not believe that is what it was about.

    You proved your own statement to be false. Right there in your scripture given. How can He rise again before He is (was) crucified? I am sorry my friend, but your time line does not add up with scripture, the very word of God.

    So, Jesus, according to the Friday crucifixion, should of burned with fire on Friday morning, Saturday morning? The 14th, the Passover, Thursday, was when they ate the lamb (that evening). Friday day break they would of burnt any left overs. You are trying to make every little detail fit with your time line. The basic fulfillment of the feast is what it is all about. You could not fulfill every given detail related to the meat and at the same time fulfill the feast. You seem stuck on the details and not on the basic facts of fulfillment.

    The same with the manna. We eat of Jesus everyday of the week. Do we stop such on the Sabbath?

    Anyhow my good brother, the best of luck to you in your journey and walk with Christ our Savior. I know you will not respond to any further questioning so be blessed and always be sure, to the best of your ability, that what you state is the word of God. Also, it is all right to misunderstand or to not fully understand, as none of us do. I have learned to switch my views on a few things in the past when proof was on the other side. This life is all about growing and learning, and our good Lord knows I have a whole lot of that left to do. God bless.
     
  15. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    A Jewish day was from sundown to sundown, for when the Israelites were to prepare the passover lamb, "it must continue under safeguard by you until the fourteenth day of the month (this month was initially called Abib [meaning "green ears"], but after the Israelites release from Babylon in 539 B.C.E, it was called Nisan [after the Babylonian month of Nisanu], being from about mid March to mid April), and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings."(Ex 12:6)


    And at Deuteronomy 16, Moses tells the nation of Israel, that "at the place that Jehovah your God will choose to have his name reside there, you should sacrifice the passover in the evening as soon as the sun sets, at the appointed time of your coming out of Egypt."(Deut 16:6)


    Hence, just as the passover lamb was sacrificed on Nisan 14 ("evening to evening"), so likewise was Jesus in the major fulfillment of Exodus 12. And just as closely following the instructions to splash some of the blood on the doorposts of the Israelites homes saved their firstborn from dying at the hands of an angel (Ex 12:7, 12, 13), so those who want to save themselves from everlasting death must also exercise faith in Jesus perfect shed blood.(John 3:16-18)


    Jesus died on the day of "Preparation", the day before the sabbath, or corresponding to the day of Friday, around 3 P.M.(Mark 15:33, 37, 42) On what corresponds to the day of Sunday, Mark 16 says that "when the sabbath (from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown) had passed, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices in order to come and grease him. And very early on the first day of the week they came to the memorial tomb, when the sun had risen."(Mark 16:1, 2)
     
  16. Dodo_David

    Dodo_David Melmacian in human guise

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    In an article for Christianity Today magazine [ "Did Jesus Really Descend to Hell?"], seminary professor Millard J. Erickson writes the following:

    Yet a few years back at one Christian college, a series of chapel messages on the Apostles' Creed had to omit this item, because none of the 12 professors of Bible and theology believed it. Actually the statement is not found in the earliest form of the Apostles' Creed. It echoes Acts 2:31, and seems to be there simply to make the point that Jesus' death was real and complete. Jesus went to hades, which in the Greek signifies the world of the departed—paradise for some, pain for others. When the Apostles' Creed took its English form in the sixteenth century, "hell" meant hades as such, rather than the final state of the lost (which Jesus called gehenna), as it always is today.
     
  17. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Where did Jesus go when he died ? The King James Bible reads at Acts 2:31, quoting from Psalms 16:10: "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (Greek hades), neither his flesh did see corruption." Hence, according to the KJV, Jesus was in "hell" for parts of three days just as Jonah.(Matt 12:40)


    Of Jonah, the KJV reads: "Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly. And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell (Hebrew sheol ) cried I, and thou heardest my voice."(Jonah 2:1, 2)

    But where was Jonah when he prayed to God ? In the belly of a huge fish he called the "belly of hell". If "hell" were a place of fiery torment, as many espouse, then how could Jonah say this ? Obviously, there is wide difference between what the churches of Christendom have postulated concerning "hell" and what the Bible teaches.


    When the KJV was published in 1611, what was the meaning of "hell" ? According to the Encarta Dictionary, "Old English hel(l) . Ultimately from an Indo-European word meaning “to conceal".(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) Thus when the expression was used of "helling potatoes", it did not mean to roast them, but to bury them in the ground or place them in a concealed place like a cellar for storage or safekeeping until they are to be eaten.


    The word "hell" is often rendered from the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek word hades, with the connotation of place of eternal torment. This, though, is not what is meant by either sheol or hades (both are synonymous). When Jonah prayed "out of the belly of hell", was he in place of fiery torment ? No. Rather, he was just concealed, awaiting to be released from his "prison" within the "huge fish".


    At Job 14:13, Job, who was feeling especially depressed from losing all his children, his means of living, having a loathsome disease and his wife wanting him to curse God and die, having thoughts of dying, asked Jehovah God: "O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave (Hebrew sheol), that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint a set time and remember me !"(Job 14:13)


    Job wanted to be concealed in sheol until God's appointed time and then be remembered, brought back to life. If sheol or "hell" were a place of fiery torment, would either Job or Jonah speak of it as a place of concealment and one to go to ? No.


    Rather this explains why Jesus was in "hell", for he was in the grave, dead for parts of three days, awaiting his resurrection from the dead by Jehovah God. The words sheol and hades thus means mankind's common grave, not a place eternal torment. And in conjunction with this, Ecclesiastes 9:5 says: "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they anymore a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."(KJV)
     
  18. Dodo_David

    Dodo_David Melmacian in human guise

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    Some of this confusion about Hell would be remedied if people did not needlessly insist on using an English version of the Bible that is written in antiquated English.
     
  19. zhavoney

    zhavoney Son Of Man

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    So why do you think the Whale did not digest Jonah?
     
    Spirit Covenant likes this.
  20. Dodo_David

    Dodo_David Melmacian in human guise

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    Because it wasn't a whale?

    The word whale isn't in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts because the word is Germanic in origin.

    The exact identity of the sea creature that swallowed Jonah isn't known. What is known is that a whale is unable to swallow a person.

    In his book Word Meanings in the New Testament, Dr. Ralph Earle states the following:

    Regardless of what exactly swallowed Jonah, it was being controlled by God. So, it did what God wanted it to do.

    [*Quote Source: Ralph Earle, Th.D., Word Meanings in the New Testament (Baker Book House: 1986), p. 12. ]
     
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