When Not To Go To Church

[Enow]

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 5 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

It seems that it is very hard to correct an iniquity as exposed by the scripture in a church that is settled in her ways. Indeed, some just leave to look for another church.

There is no perfect church, just as there is no perfect believer, but if the church is to excommunicate a brother living in sin or practicing iniquity so that he may repent, how can a church be made to repent when they refuse repentance? How can a church grow by His words if they ignore His words or they simply do not believe His words because it is a long held church tradition or practice even though there are no scripture in the N.T. to support such tradition or practice?

The doctrine of the Nicolaitanes is about "conquest of the laity" by having an authority outside the local assembly other than the Word of God as Christ is the head of the church and every believer. The deeds of the Nicolaitanes is about sexual immorality.

My former church switched Presbytery that compromised with social values to a more Biblical one, but the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes which God hates, still remains. Indeed, how does one prevent a Presbytery from going astray? How do those in the Presbytery get elected or hired to those positions? How is it that no local church nor a believer can correct them by the scripture when they go astray? So one can see how red tape and a Presbytery can prevent a local church from considering repentance from an unbiblical practice or sin.

Anyway, there are scripture for when we are not supposed to go to church. As bad as things are getting in the latter days, don't be surprise if you find you are left with having a fellowship and worship in your own home with like-minded believers or even just your family as the only way to hold worship in spirit and in truth with fellowship in the light of His words.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Windmillcharge]

There is no perfect church, just as there is no perfect believer, but if the church is to excommunicate a brother living in sin or practicing iniquity so that he may repent, how can a church be made to repent when they refuse repentance?

If one is a member of a church and it is starting to stray, teach false truths etc, then one raises this with the minister and anycouncil of elders.
If they dismiss this, then you approach them again with company, if it is still discounted, raise it publicly at a church meeting. If it is still not believed one formally leaves sending a letter to the minister and an email to everyone you can contact out lining he errors they have adopted and formally stating you have left them.

No church is set to last for ever, what we call churches are merely temporary assembles that last for a while and die.
Those that last major interacting the congregation to think and challenge false teaching.

 

[Enow]

If one is a member of a church and it is starting to stray, teach false truths etc, then one raises this with the minister and anycouncil of elders.
If they dismiss this, then you approach them again with company, if it is still discounted, raise it publicly at a church meeting. If it is still not believed one formally leaves sending a letter to the minister and an email to everyone you can contact out lining he errors they have adopted and formally stating you have left them.

No church is set to last for ever, what we call churches are merely temporary assembles that last for a while and die.
Those that last major interacting the congregation to think and challenge false teaching.

Sound instructions, however, I am in a situation where I can do nothing because of my enemies. They cannot refute what the scripture reproves and so they attack me and my character from which they have won over the congregation by this defamation to not even regard His words.

Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.4But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Jesus is still Lord even though because of my enemies, the word of God has no effect. Nobody likes anyone rocking the boat. No church would like to lose members that refuse to leave freemasonry. The church ignores people living together that are not married. Preaching from the pulpit in hoping they will be convicted and repent has not been working. The excuses of, "no sin is greater than any other sin", and "you are not perfect so come back when you are perfect" are just given for why they do not even want to go to Jesus Christ for help to depart from iniquity.

Signs of the times but Jesus is still Lord.

 

[Joseph77]

No church would like to lose members that refuse to leave freemasonry.

The true assemblies of Ekklesia have never had members who remained in evil organizations - they either repented to be a part of the body of Christ, or they were not ever a part of the body of Christ.

 

[Marymog]

The true assemblies of Ekklesia have never had members who remained in evil organizations - they either repented to be a part of the body of Christ, or they were not ever a part of the body of Christ.

How do we know who are the true assemblies of Ekklesia ?

 

[Joseph77]

You don't know. All along, those who don't know, don't know. (Is there a more simple way to put this?)

Evidence: you forsook (opposed) God's Teaching from Heaven. (in many posts so far, if not all of them)
Martin Luther accepted God's Teaching from Heaven. (salvation by faith in Jesus) (even though he made mistakes - he was saved by grace, through faith, according to GOD'S WORD ! (not according to the faek preackers opposed to God) ...

How do we know who are the true assemblies of Ekklesia ?

 

[DNB]

How do we know who are the true assemblies of Ekklesia ?

You may have noticed by now Mary, that Joseph never, ever explains anything. He just cites clichés, and makes general ambiguous remarks that have no practical, or relevant conclusion. He's like a parrot that continuously repeats himself, without showing any understanding.
I trust that you've sensed this already.

 

[Philip James]

No church would like to lose members that refuse to leave freemasonry.

Hello brother Enow,

There is a reason that any catholic joining the masons is automatically excommunicated.

Peace!

 

[Angelina]

My former church switched Presbytery that compromised with social values to a more Biblical one, but the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes which God hates, still remains. Indeed, how does one prevent a Presbytery from going astray? How do those in the Presbytery get elected or hired to those positions? How is it that no local church nor a believer can correct them by the scripture when they go astray? So one can see how red tape and a Presbytery can prevent a local church from considering repentance from an unbiblical practice or sin.

It appears that your church is run by a theocratic system where members are not able to elect their leadership through a process of voting. This is usually achieved by a council or board, not necessarily involved in the church itself. It also usually means that the minister and his leaders are accountable to the board so that if an issue comes up in the local church, they are the ones who have the authority to bring that issue before the board. If however, If the issues raised are about the minister or any of the church leaders or how they are handling issues in the church. It becomes a problem because they are still the ones who have the authority to bring them to the board.

I came from a Pentecostal church that was theocratic in their modus operandi and issues forwarded to the Pastor may or may not reach the appropriate board because it seriously depended on how honest the leadership was to try and work things through according to the word of God and their accountability towards their members and the board, can come into question.

Anyway, there are scripture for when we are not supposed to go to church. As bad as things are getting in the latter days, don't be surprise if you find you are left with having a fellowship and worship in your own home with like-minded believers or even just your family as the only way to hold worship in spirit and in truth with fellowship in the light of His words.

I would not be surprised at all in our current climate.

 

[Heart2Soul]

It appears that your church is run by a theocratic system where members are not able to elect their leadership through a process of voting. This is usually achieved by a council or board, not necessarily involved in the church itself. It also usually means that the minister and his leaders are accountable to the board so that if an issue comes up in the local church, they are the ones who have the authority to bring that issue before the board. If however, If the issues raised are about the minister or any of the church leaders or how they are handling issues in the church. It becomes a problem because they are still the ones who have the authority to bring them to the board.

I came from a Pentecostal church that was theocratic in their modus operandi and issues forwarded to the Pastor may or may not reach the appropriate board because it seriously depended on how honest the leadership was to try and work things through according to the word of God and their accountability towards their members and the board, can come into question.



I would not be surprised at all in our current climate.

I came from Assemblies of God and when the pastor started preaching the doctrines of the AoG instead of the Word is when I finally left....from what I understand the sermons and Sunday school lessons are determined by those in the AoG headquarters and sent to all the churches. So basically, the entire denomination is run like a dictatorship....IMHO....but my information is very old...back in the early 80's so I don't know how it is run today.

 

[Candidus]

Church Government is something that many congregations divide on and debate.

The three basic styles are:

Episcopal
Presbyterian
Congregational

The Episcopal relies on the Leadership to "oversee" and determine the doctrine and polity of a Church. It does not rely on the Congregation to participate in those decisions.

The Presbyterian model is a blend of hierarchy and the local Body making decisions. Doctrinally, it is weighted towards the Leadership, and locally, to the style and other functions to the Congregation.

Congregational Churches are run by popular vote. The Leadership has the same vote as everyone else.

There are positives and negatives to each style.

Congregational type Churches are the first to "go off the rails" doctrinally. Laity, with little or no theological training, can persuade the majority to change things.

Episcopal type Churches are accused of stifling the move of God, for everything must be approved and determined by the Seminary-trained Hierarchy. They usually stay more stable doctrinally, but that depends on the orthodoxy of the Leadership. If that changes, then those at the bottom are at their mercy and must accept what they decide.

The Presbyterian type of Church government gives the people an input, while holding on to some stability by the Leadership that usually has had some form of theological training and agreement with the standards and doctrines of the larger Church.

Some may argue in a young Church that they have the right to determine where they are going. The Episcopal and Presbyterian models would argue that they offer form, direction, and stability to the forming of a young Body.

In the New Testament and Early Church, there appears to be some form of Hierarchy, at least doctrinally. The Local Church seems to welcome this oversight and authority. On the other hand, it is a loose authority in that the Hierarchy does not interfere with the Local flavor in an strong way... that is, unless it concerns doctrine and sin. The Hierarchy treats the Local Church like a child; disciplining and correcting it, while pouring encouragement on them. It is almost like doing your best, then standing back and marveling at what they grow up to be!

I, personally, would like something in-between a Episcopal and a Presbyterian model. A bit stronger on the vote and direction of those placed above us as Overseers than the Presbyterian model, yet less than a dominant Bishopric over the people. The Episcopal model tends to not see the "people" as being part of the ministry, and sometimes has the attitude that only the Hierarchy is the "ministry". Many dislike this form and prefer something more akin to a Democracy.

There are dangers and drawbacks to every style that we use. People are the problem! We tend to seek out that style that we like; it is not a matter of right or wrong, but what we feel comfortable with.

 

[bbyrd009]

There are dangers and drawbacks to every style that we use. People are the problem! We tend to seek out that style that we like; it is not a matter of right or wrong, but what we feel comfortable with.

hmm, i always thought that the people were the church? And i would argue that it is mos def a matter of right and wrong, your gatherings do more harm than good?

 

[Angelina]

Church Government is something that many congregations divide on and debate.

The three basic styles are:

Episcopal
Presbyterian
Congregational

The Episcopal relies on the Leadership to "oversee" and determine the doctrine and polity of a Church. It does not rely on the Congregation to participate in those decisions.

The Presbyterian model is a blend of hierarchy and the local Body making decisions. Doctrinally, it is weighted towards the Leadership, and locally, to the style and other functions to the Congregation.

Congregational Churches are run by popular vote. The Leadership has the same vote as everyone else.

There are positives and negatives to each style.

Congregational type Churches are the first to "go off the rails" doctrinally. Laity, with little or no theological training, can persuade the majority to change things.

Episcopal type Churches are accused of stifling the move of God, for everything must be approved and determined by the Seminary-trained Hierarchy. They usually stay more stable doctrinally, but that depends on the orthodoxy of the Leadership. If that changes, then those at the bottom are at their mercy and must accept what they decide.

The Presbyterian type of Church government gives the people an input, while holding on to some stability by the Leadership that usually has had some form of theological training and agreement with the standards and doctrines of the larger Church.

Some may argue in a young Church that they have the right to determine where they are going. The Episcopal and Presbyterian models would argue that they offer form, direction, and stability to the forming of a young Body.

In the New Testament and Early Church, there appears to be some form of Hierarchy, at least doctrinally. The Local Church seems to welcome this oversight and authority. On the other hand, it is a loose authority in that the Hierarchy does not interfere with the Local flavor in an strong way... that is, unless it concerns doctrine and sin. The Hierarchy treats the Local Church like a child; disciplining and correcting it, while pouring encouragement on them. It is almost like doing your best, then standing back and marveling at what they grow up to be!

I, personally, would like something in-between a Episcopal and a Presbyterian model. A bit stronger on the vote and direction of those placed above us as Overseers than the Presbyterian model, yet less than a dominant Bishopric over the people. The Episcopal model tends to not see the "people" as being part of the ministry, and sometimes has the attitude that only the Hierarchy is the "ministry". Many dislike this form and prefer something more akin to a Democracy.

There are dangers and drawbacks to every style that we use. People are the problem! We tend to seek out that style that we like; it is not a matter of right or wrong, but what we feel comfortable with.

My old Pentecostal church was hierarchical. It was based on the Jethro principle. The Baptist church is more toward congregational. They are able to vote on issues pertaining to church business as long as they are members. NOt sure about our local Presbyterian church. I know the minister is elected by a governing body and not the local church.

 

[Candidus]

My old Pentecostal church was hierarchical. It was based on the Jethro principle. The Baptist church is more toward congregational. They are able to vote on issues pertaining to church business as long as they are members. NOt sure about our local Presbyterian church. I know the minister is elected by a governing body and not the local church.

While the styles of Church government are not limited to the similarity of the named Denominations, most Churches today are the Presbyterian form of government.

 

[Candidus]

hmm, i always thought that the people were the church? And i would argue that it is mos def a matter of right and wrong, your gatherings do more harm than good?

Yes, "the people" are the Church. Yet we gather and are organized with a purpose! How we run these organizations is a matter of Government.

I remember when people juxtaposed Churches as either "formal" or "spiritual". I do not see that we are stuck with either "Spiritless Formalism" or "Formless Spiritualism", but are normally somewhere in the middle between the two extremes.

 

[Angelina]

While the styles of Church government are not limited to the similarity of the named Denominations, most Churches today are the Presbyterian form of government.

To be honest, there appears to be more freedom in the way the Baptist church runs things then there was in the Pentecostal church I was once part of. We were not involved in the running of things or decisions made however, it worked okay for us. When I led my mom to the Lord, I did not take her to my [then] church. Instead I suggested that she went to the Baptist church because she would grow more as a new believer and she did, in leaps and bounds.

She would not have understood anything our Pastor talked about unless she understood the bible or would at least have some form of understanding of God. The Baptist church is a perfect place to learn as a new believer.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet we gather and are organized with a purpose!

that being?

How we run these organizations is a matter of Government.

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power for that, imo

 

[Candidus]

that being?
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power for that, imo

I don't disagree, yet we are not there yet. A Theocracy will be established.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't disagree, yet we are not there yet. A Theocracy will be established.

well so you say, but seems to me that we got enough Theocracy already, needs to be destroyed

 

[Candidus]

that being?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Ephesians 4:11-13.

"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you." Titus 2"11-15.