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Featured When to look for the rapture of the church

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by rockytopva, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    This event....

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

    Will happen at this time....

    That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

    1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
    2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ

    I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.
     
  2. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    we should be looking now, or you might miss it,
     
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  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    And such outlook keeps one pure...

    Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3
     
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  4. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    I think our time of looking should be exactly when the scripture says in Lk. 21:28 which are the signs of the sixth seal.
     
  5. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    Never
     
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  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Since the events of the 6th seal are immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation, which itself is totally unique, and the result of the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation, you have missed the boat. Until and unless the Rapture occurs, the Antichrist cannot take total control and then set up the Abomination of Desolation.
     
  7. Copperhead

    Copperhead Active Member

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    Well, if one is honest, the "falling away has been occurring before the church got out of the 1st century. Even Paul stated in Acts that all of Asia had heard the Gospel, yet several years later when he wrote Timothy, he said that all in Asia had turned against him. And that was before 60 AD. Sounds like a major falling away. And if one studies the letters to the 7 churches in Revelation. one would wonder how anyone got anything right later on. It has only been a miracle of the HS that the Gospel has even survived the last 2000 years.

    To hang one's hat on a "falling away" being a trigger is pretty weak at best.

    But given that every English translation and the Latin Vulgate translated 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as "departure", "a departure", or "the departure" prior to the Rheims and KJV bibles came on the scene, it might be worthy of consideration that a physical departure is in view in that passage as opposed to a falling away. After all, the context of the passage is laid out in V1 where Paul is talking about our being gathered to the Lord, not our rejection of the Lord.

    And if "departure" is what was originally intended in the text, that is game, set, match for a pre-Antichrist removal of the righteous.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
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  8. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Neither the church nor the HS are the ones preventing him from setting up the a of d. In fact, Paul explicitly states in 1 Thess. 2:3, that the day of Christ's return will NOT happen until the man of sin is revealed and I believe that revelation won't occur until he demands worship per Rev. 13:4.
     
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  9. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Or the scripture within the context is speaking of a departure from the faith.
     
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  10. Copperhead

    Copperhead Active Member

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    That could be true, if that was what was said. But a departure from the faith has been a major issue since the first century, and I gave examples from scripture. The only way to assert that the "departure" is from the faith is if that was what was said in the text. The only other instance of the word is in Acts where it specifically says what is being departed from.... the Mosaic Law. Without a specific article of what is actually being departed from, the word stands on its own. That is per many Greek scholars and expositors. Dr. Kenneth Wuest, Dr. Andy Woods, and a host of well learned folks over the years.

    It is adding to the text to state categorically that a departure from the faith is in view. And it violates the context of the passage, which Paul states in verse 1 as our gathering unto the Lord.

    These Thessalonians had been led to believe, falsely, that they were in the Day of the Lord (see V2), that they somehow had missed something. If they thought they would be going into the Day of the Lord, then why would they be upset? Just from the text is seems they assumed that they would not be a part of the Day of the Lord. To get them back on track, Paul reminds them that the Day would not happen until there is the departure and the man of sin is revealed. And later in the passage he emphasizes that by stating that the man of sin would not be revealed until the one restraining Him is taken out of the way. Whether that is the church or the one who embodies the church, the HS, is up for debate, but that the man of sin will not be revealed until the one restraining is taken out of the way is not debatable.

    And Paul reminds them that he had taught them this before. And if we look at his first letter to the Thessalonians, it supports the idea of a gathering of the righteous unto the Lord before the calamities come upon the earth and the antichrist comes into power.
     
  11. Copperhead

    Copperhead Active Member

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    But I am convinced that Daniel 9:27 is in play. For the covenant to be broken and the AOD to happen, there is the covenant being confirmed by this same character. So it could be that the man of sin being revealed is at that covenant affirmation, which he later breaks and sets up the AOD that Yeshua talked about.
     
  12. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Agree...some will be in for a shock when it doesn't happen.
    ( and they are not prepared to 'stand'. )
     
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  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    What doesn't happen? The Resurrection/Rapture is GUARANTEED by God Himself, and Christians are already exhorted to stand against the wiles of the devil (Ephesians 6).
     
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  14. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Whatever.

    I do not "believe in" or expect to see the church zapped out of trouble.
    I expect to see God with us through trouble...as He has always promised.

    But, more power to your elbow....just keep you eyes on the Lord Himself...not for any escape.
     
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  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Was Enoch zapped out of trouble?
    Was Noah and his family zapped out of trouble?
    Was Lot and his family zapped out of trouble?

    The trouble is for the ungodly and the unbelieving, not for the saints.
    But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile... (Rom 2:8,9)
     
  16. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Whatever....we will see...
     
  17. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    ...PS, I have nothing to lose...you do...
     
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  18. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    Agreed, the rapture doctrine is just an escapist idea.
     
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  19. Copperhead

    Copperhead Active Member

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    And trusting in Messiah to escape eternal punishment isn’t? We are all guilty of the death of Yeshua. As the Torah gave us an example, we flee to the city of refuge, which is Yeshua, to escape the avenger of blood, the Father.

    Folks can call redemption and the removal of the righteous escapism if they like. Doesn’t negate that it is the blessed hope of the believers according to Paul, with a reward promised to all those who look forward to the Lord appearing.

    And I am confident in whom I have placed my trust. I wish others were.
     
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  20. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Hi Copperhead, Your way of analyzing this scripture makes no sense. Within the context of vs. 2 the subject changes that the day will NOT come. Until the subject changes again anything after that is explaining why it hasn't come yet. The way you're interpreting it, it would read...by our being gathered unto him...Let no man deceive you by any means for that day won't come until we depart unto the gathering". Paul is a much better writer than that. Within the context it really can't mean anything else than an apostasy and no it didn't start in the first century and no, it's not the catholic church or any other corporate religious failings. It will be a mass of Christians in a short period of time either before or early into the 70th week.

    When you hear stuff like this that is a departure from what 90% of Christians know to be the truth, in most cases they are trying to twist scripture to make sense of an ideology that is most likely errant.
     
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