Where did we get The Bible? - A IN-DEPTH STUDY

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MatthewG

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The subject of the Bible is enormous and requires a tremendous amount of research, discussion, and often the breaking down of the preconceived beliefs inculcated into the mind of believers by religious zealots. Topics like historicity, authenticity, original languages, manuscript evidence, inspiration issues, consistency, translations, transmissions, support texts, error and infallibility, contextual understanding (and much more) play a key role in how th eBible content will be understood and ultimately received by each reader.

The body of believers might be divided into several camps relative to the Bible:

  • Those who believe that in its original manuscripts, the text was perfect
  • Those who believe that certain translations today are perfect and without any error.
  • Those who believe the book is corrupted and unreliable.
  • Those who believe it is the product of men and full of myth.
These views are not exhaustive by any means. And while the above issues are worthy of time and attention for any seeker of truth, the following are factors relative to the bible that speak directly to the Christian Anarchist point of view:

  • The Bible was first only the Old Testament, or what the Jews referred to as the "Tanakah," which is an acronym for Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim, meaning Law, Prophets, and Writing, respectively. These three groups in total include all books of the Hebrew Bible which in most Christian Old Testaments covers Genesis through Malachi.
  • When Jesus speaks of the Word of God or scripture, He was speaking of the Tanakh.
  • When his apostles spoke of scripture they almost always were speaking of the Tanakh.
  • In other words, there was no New Testament for the early apostolic church.
  • The only writings that the early Christian believers had outside of the Tanahk were letters that were written by Jesus's apostles to specific Saints in specific churches that were in specific parts of Israel and Asia Minor.
  • There were no printing presses in that day so all manuscripts of either the gospels or the epistles had to be copied by hand if they were to be shared or passed along to other believers in other lands.
  • In addition to the truly inspired, apostolically, authorized writings, there were numerous of counterfeits among the believers in the first century.
  • Knowing which manuscripts were authentic and which were pseud-scripture took some time - a great deal of time.
  • Add in the fact that the distance between where the Gospels and the Epistles were originally written was enormous, that authentication of the writing was at times difficult, and that all copying was done by hand, the Bible, as we know it today was never available to believers for the first 250 years after Christ ascended to heaven.
  • Two hundred and fifty years is a long time - that's more than six biblical generations.
  • And then, even after the contents were somewhat agreed upon by the third Century scholars, the Bible was translated into a language few could read or write (Latin). This meant only the educated and (and due to the unavailability of manuscripts) only the established churches with resources (Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy) had direct open access to the collection of New Testament writings.
  • This would be the general situation for the next 1250 years!
  • In and around what we call the Protestant Reformation the Bible was taken and retranslated by men like Wycliffe, Tyndale, Erasmus, and others who provided full translations of the Bible into English.
  • The advent of the Gutenberg printing press in 1440 allowed for the wide distribution of the written word and the era of everyman having and reading the bible was underway.
  • While the book is perhaps the greatest material gift in the life of a believer in Christ it was not available, sometimes in part and rarely as a whole, to the followers of Jesus for 1550 years!
  • It was certainly not available to believers in the first 250 years.
  • So the question is, "What did the early believers do without a New Testament?"
  • What did the people who believed Paul's words in, say, in Rhodes, have to guide them once he left them after visiting them for seven days? No (apparent) epistles. No direct apostolic leadership? They had the Tanahk but that book is almost altogether ignored by many Christians today?
  • What they had was the Spirit, which is called the Spirit of Christ in scripture that was abiding by them, living in them, and directing them.
  • Absent a complete printed and agreed-upon New Testament this is what most Christians had for the first 1500 years of Christian history.
  • It was only when the scripture as a whole became available to the masses that the bible - that the Bible - under Martin Luther's direction - to the place of the Spirit-leading believers.
  • And what was his stance on what he called, Sola Scriptura giving the world of Christianity?
  • Instant Denominations. Instant infighting. Instant wars.
  • Sola scriptura, has never produced unity of the faith but has actually produced the opposite - disunity in the faith, even hatred! - over such small things as water baptism.
  • In the face of all this division, which is a direct by-product of looking to the New Testament as our Law (writing on paper) we have lost what God gave his believers in the first 15000 years of the faith - his spirit - and the fruits of His spirit which is love.
  • Love is the new commandment of the King. Not laws and doctrines printed on paper. They will be forever disputed and debated but true love for God and his SOn (and therefore each other) would never let disputes over doctrine and practice divide a people who claim to follow Jesus as King.
  • There was a good reason God did not have a New TEstament complete and printed for believers of His early Church. He wanted them to abide in love and unity. He wanted them to be lovers, not lawyers. "Any fool can make a rule.", Any person on earth with a religious agenda can take the Bible and concoct another denomination.
  • God wants unity. He wants all divisions over Him to stop and wants His radical followers to radically follow him in being peace makers and not to allow differences on disputable matters to reign in his true body.
 
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MatthewG

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Summary of the Bible:

The Bible, as we have it today, is wonderful, inspired, and infalliable in its ability to lead and teach all seekers what God wants them to know, the history of his reconciling the world unto Himself. It ought to be seen and used as a personal map for the individual believer in their efforts to understand God by the spirit, and not a manual of musts, rules or laws. This sacred compilation was not available as a whole to believers for the first 250 years of Christian history and then once it became available it has been used as a tool to divide and even destroy the lives of individuals seeking to know God and his Son by the Spirit of its words.
 

MatthewG

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Thank you to anyone whom has come to check this information out hope it helps you !!!
 

JunChosen

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for the first 250 years of Christian history and then once it became available it has been used as a tool to divide and even destroy the lives of individuals seeking to know God and his Son by the Spirit of its words
Really??? Surprise!!?? Scripture claims "As it is written, There is none righteous no, not one. "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Your opinion goes down the drain!

Man, in and of himself, does not have the power to seek after God!!!
 

MatthewG

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Really??? Surprise!!?? Scripture claims "As it is written, There is none righteous no, not one. "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Your opinion goes down the drain!

Man, in and of himself, does not have the power to seek after God!!!

Hi @JunChosen, not so sure that scripture matters in the context of a history lesson but of course no one is righteous, and no one has to believe anything written here, friend. Not so sure, why you are wanting to bring these things up, but I believe that people can seek out God, by denying themselves, that is indeed a personal opinion of course.

"Saying there must be something more to this life, than just myself, just look at the sky, the clouds, the birds of the air, the stars at night, the sun and moon, the rivers, the canyons, the deserts."

Surely, there are those who seek after God, and it all comes by looking and having faith in something greater than oneself, realizing there is a God whom created you with a soul and body.

God bless you.
 

JunChosen

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Not so sure, why you are wanting to bring these things up, but I believe that people can seek out God, by denying themselves, that is indeed a personal opinion of course.
If you want to teach others the truth, make sure you are teaching what Scripture does stipulate. without man's preconceived notions.

Again, read my lips, "There is none that seeks after God no, not one!"
 

MatthewG

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Hi, who gives you that authority to say such things @JunChosen?

You'll simply have to answer that question to actually make me believe you are someone with authority to - have control over what God is able to do, sir.

Please, do not go that route with me.

May God bless you, and lead you, and may you continue to seek him out in faith.
 
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MatthewG

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Just asking a question. You have to answer it somehow @JunChosen.

Who gives you authority to dictate what God is able to do or not do, if a person decides for themselves to seek out God?

You are quoting a scripture that is a reference to Israel back in the day, in how lost they had become, which is quoted by Paul in his day about how far israel had come to being godless and having set forth themselves idols.

You are also dictating by the same 'quoted' scripture that no one has the capability to seek out God, when clearly Adam could have sought out God in the Garden, or Eve could have sought out God in the Garden, but they both did not, and upon not having faith in going to him, having sin, they hid themselves.
 
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MatthewG

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After someone had come talking to me more about the Lord Jesus Christ, that is what set me on my course to seek out God,
but if scripture says no one seeks out God - why did I seek out God?


It is the same for people in regions where there may not be a bible like me and you have, but they have the creation to look at, and to look at something greater than themselves by the nature of Creation.

Upon having faith in God whom created - everything right? - God can give them the spirit to live by - even if they dont have a bible to address and look at.

As far as I am concerned - God is the one whom had dication over those people who do such things, by seeking him in faith which he rewards people that do such things.



Hebrews 11:6 NLT
“It is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. . .
 

JunChosen

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Just asking a question. You have to answer it somehow @JunChosen.

Who gives you authority to dictate what God is able to do or not do,
Matthew 28:19-20.
if a person decides for themselves to seek out God?
An unsaved person will NEVER seek after God, but those who are saved or will become saved!
You are quoting a scripture that is a reference to Israel back in the day, in how lost they had become, which is quoted by Paul in his day about how far israel had come to being godless and having set forth themselves idols.
That's right, those about 20 years old and above, because of unbelief, could not enter into the promised land.
You are also dictating by the same 'quoted' scripture that no one has the capability to seek out God,
I merely echoed God's words: "There is none that seeks after God no, not one" Romans 3:11.
when clearly Adam and Eve could have sought out God in the Garden, but they both did not, and upon not having faith in going to him, having sin, they hid themselves.
True, however, Adam and Eve both were the only two people in the human race who were born "good" while the rest of mankind were tainted with sin when born.
 

MatthewG

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Just wondering who gave you authority, and you just quote a scripture that pertains to Jesus, speaking to his eleven disciples at a time is not a direct answer @JunChosen do you understand that?
 

MatthewG

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“And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth; having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them — to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days — till the full end of the age.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭16‬-‭20‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
 

MatthewG

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If your gonna continue to quote Romans 3:11, @JunChosen does that mean you dont seek for God today? And that Hebrews 11:6 is a lie pertaining to faith and reward, for seeking him?

Im just trying to let you know and point out the flaws in what your saying,

“And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction, for in this were the elders testified of; by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing; by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain, through which he was testified to be righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, doth yet speak. By faith Enoch was translated — not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to — that he had pleased God well, and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Hope God guides you to the truth, faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.
“so then the faith [is] by a report, and the report through a saying of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭17‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

There is a lot to learn from the book of Romans? Even that God is known by the creation itself and some people rather worship self than God himself i wont disagree with you there, @JunChosen.
“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, having been separated to the good news of God — which He announced before through His prophets in holy writings — concerning His Son, (who is come of the seed of David according to the flesh, who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord; through whom we did receive grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, in behalf of his name; among whom are also ye, the called of Jesus Christ; to all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called saints; Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ! first, indeed, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed in the whole world; for God is my witness, whom I serve in my spirit in the good news of His Son, how unceasingly I make mention of you, always in my prayers beseeching, if by any means now at length I shall have a prosperous journey, by the will of God, to come unto you, for I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, that ye may be established; and that is, that I may be comforted together among you, through the faith in one another, both yours and mine. And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that many times I did purpose to come unto you — and was hindered till the present time — that some fruit I might have also among you, even as also among the other nations. Both to Greeks and to foreigners, both to wise and to thoughtless, I am a debtor, so, as much as in me is, I am ready also to you who [are] in Rome to proclaim good news, for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek. For the righteousness of God in it is revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written, ‘And the righteous one by faith shall live,’ for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness. Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest [it] to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead — to their being inexcusable; because, having known God they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened, professing to be wise, they were made fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of fowls, and of quadrupeds, and of reptiles.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭23‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


And if one will end up teaching the book of Romans, they will get past Chapter 3,

“Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have the access by the faith into this grace in which we have stood, and we boast on the hope of the glory of God. And not only [so], but we also boast in the tribulations, knowing that the tribulation doth work endurance; and the endurance, experience; and the experience, hope; and the hope doth not make ashamed, because the love of God hath been poured forth in our hearts through the Holy Spirit that hath been given to us. For in our being still ailing, Christ in due time did die for the impious; for scarcely for a righteous man will any one die, for for the good man perhaps some one also doth dare to die; and God doth commend His own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, Christ did die for us; much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath; for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭10‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

There is a lot to learn and the reason why “sola scriptura” never worked.
 
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JunChosen

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If your gonna continue to quote Romans 3:11, @JunChosen does that mean you dont seek for God today? And that Hebrews 11:6 is a lie pertaining to faith and reward, for seeking him?
It seems you have a problem believing nor accepting what Romans 3:11 is teaching or conveys.
Im just trying to let you know and point out the flaws in what your saying,
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
Hope God guides you to the truth, faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.
Yes. It's one of many truths and is the reason we go to church to hear the word preached and be converted. And to bring friends who does not know God and be convicted by the word.
There is a lot to learn from the book of Romans? Even that God is known by the creation itself and some people rather worship self than God himself i
In fact, if you want to learn to know the contents of the Bible, just read the Book of Romans.
And if one will end up teaching the book of Romans, they will get past Chapter 3,
As I've stated above, if you want to learn the contents of the entire Bible, just read the Book of Romans.
There is a lot to learn and the reason why “sola scriptura” never worked.
"Sola Scriptura" will NEVER work for those who have no knowledge of Scripture....sorry to say!
 

MatthewG

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Not to boast but i have read every book of the New Testament, i thank God i was able to, i did skip alot of acts, but every other book in the new testament i have read @JunChosen.

You may believe and decree as you will, i have nothing more to say.
 
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Illuminator

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Really??? Surprise!!?? Scripture claims "As it is written, There is none righteous no, not one. "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Your opinion goes down the drain!

Man, in and of himself, does not have the power to seek after God!!!
Romans 3:10 There is none righteous no, not one. references the Psalms.
Psalm 14:1-3

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good…

Psalm 53:1-3
To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good…

Romans 3:10 doesn't mean no one is righteous, it means among the wicked, no one is righteous. Calvin was wrong.
 
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Illuminator

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A Visual Diagram of the History of the New Testament Canon


Sources for New Testament Canon Chart (all Protestant) :
1
) J. D. Douglas, editor, New Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1962 edition, 194-198.
2) F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, editors, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd edition, 1983, 232, 300, 309-10, 626, 641, 724, 1049, 1069.
3) Norman L. Geisler & William E. Nix, From God to Us: How We Got Our Bible, Chicago: Moody Press, 1974, 109-12, 117-125.
 
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Patrick1966

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Not to boast but i have read every book of the New Testament, i thank God i was able to, i did skip alot of acts, but every other book in the new testament i have read @JunChosen.

You may believe and decree as you will, i have nothing more to say.

Don't be dissuaded by negative responses. Keep sharing your perspectives because you're one of the few here that are worth reading.