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Where do I stand..

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by transparent_opacity, Sep 25, 2007.

  1. transparent_opacity

    transparent_opacity New Member

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    So I'm not sure where I stand. I know I'm not full christian by any means but I'm not sure if I am at all. I believe a lot of things that the church doesn't and I disagree with quite a bit. Sure as Agreeing with Gay marrige, Abortion, ect.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Where you stand in my opinion is with many today Never really knowing the difference between Gods Word, mens confusion about Gods Word, and political correctness So what do you want to understand?? Does God say to plan to kill someone is a sin yes. For men to say well we dont think it should apply till we say a fetus is old enough is no different to God then saying well if a toddler is under five its OK to kill them. It doesn't matter your reasons for disagreeing thats what God says period.As far as Gay marriage or being Gay God says he created man and woman perfect and to be with each other He did not create Man to be with man nor woman to be with womananymore than he created dogs to be with cats. However we are told to hate the sin of sexual acts of Gays NOT the people that are Gay so to approve of marriage between these would be in effect sanctioning the act. Therefore we can not support Gay marriage again your reason for supporting it does not matter because God has said other wise. We will be happy to answer any other questions you have and hope you will learn why Gods way is the right way.
     
  3. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by a "full Christian." Who is Jesus to you? Answer that question & then go from there.All of us have misperceptions. That is why we study the Bible & seek wisdom from the Holy Spirit. Over time things become clearer. Paul described it as looking thru a glass darkly. None of us have instant understanding of all God's way. But we press on & study & grow.
     
  4. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    (kriss;18701)
    Where you stand in my opinion is with many today Never really knowing the difference between Gods Word, mens confusion about Gods Word, and political correctness So what do you want to understand?? Does God say to plan to kill someone is a sin yes. For men to say well we dont think it should apply till we say a fetus is old enough is no different to God then saying well if a toddler is under five its OK to kill them. It doesn't matter your reasons for disagreeing thats what God says period.As far as Gay marriage or being Gay God says he created man and woman perfect and to be with each other He did not create Man to be with man nor woman to be with womananymore than he created dogs to be with cats. However we are told to hate the sin of sexual acts of Gays NOT the people that are Gay so to approve of marriage between these would be in effect sanctioning the act. Therefore we can not support Gay marriage again your reason for supporting it does not matter because God has said other wise. We will be happy to answer any other questions you have and hope you will learn why Gods way is the right way.
    Everybody has sinned - everybody will continue to sin for we are not perfect, but Christ is. We will not be Christlike - although we may strive.But it would be helpful if someone could create a sin chart so we know what is a big sin and what is a little sin. For example: There are probably people on this board who are guilty of the sin of pride. How does that compare to other sins?:naughty:
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is no such thing as a sin chart. All sins are equal in the eyes of God.Meaning if you repent of your sins with all your heart they are wiped out in Gods eyes.Now that doesnt exactly mean all sin committed is equal as you may have much more to repent for. An you are subject to civil laws. But God is concerned with the state of your soul.
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    All sins are equal...except one...Matthew 12:31 - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.Matthew 12:32 - And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  7. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    (thesuperjag;19081)
    All sins are equal...except one...Matthew 12:31 - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.Matthew 12:32 - And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
    Superjag: I have always had a problem conceptualizing the Trinity. Surely committing blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is the same as blasphemy against God and Jesus?
     
  8. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    (kriss;19079)
    There is no such thing as a sin chart. All sins are equal in the eyes of God.Meaning if you repent of your sins with all your heart they are wiped out in Gods eyes.Now that doesnt exactly mean all sin committed is equal as you may have much more to repent for. An you are subject to civil laws. But God is concerned with the state of your soul.
    Kriss: I was talking about the sin chart as an analogy. ie. Murder compared to pride.I ask in good faith: If I commit a sin which I believe in my heart to not be a sin - have I committed a sin?Surely a sin committed with good intentions is less than the same sin committed for selfish reasons.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    When I talk about sin as equal Im talking about the Law (ten commandments) surley we all sin if your flesh you are a sinner so repent every night. And your slate is clean for the next day:)And the blasphomy above is one particular sin that can only be commited one time its called the unforgivable sin and it is not the everyday blaspheme people do everday. That is forgivable like any other sin.Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men
     
  10. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Ok, hold up.Not all sin is equal, that's a completely heretical doctrine. Allow me to show you why. The word Sin, in the Greek, means to miss the mark. It refers to an archer missing the target, originally. Now, when you miss a target, you can either miss by an inch, or you could be shooting in the wrong direction. People often conceptualize this as a binary situation; You either missed, or you didn't. In that sense, it is true. Either you Sinned, or you didn't. However, not all 'missing' or 'sin' is equal.The Hebrew is a tad more clear, as there are, in the Old Testament, three different words to describe "sin". They are different because they are NOT on the same level. The generic word for sin is AveraHowever, the words describing the type of Avera.Tinok Shenishba - Is not aware of the halacha, or proper Jewish lawB'shogeg - Commiting an avera by accidentB'mezid - Commiting an avera intentionallyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SinAlso see;http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htmhttp://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...er=S&search=SinAlso, recall passages of Jesus' direct teachings. First, when he was with Pontius Pilate;"Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."~John 19:11He didn't say 'has the bearing of sin'. He said, 'has the greater sin'. Thus, Jesus also teaches directly that there is greater and lesser sin.And then a Parable Luke 7:41-43"There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. "~Luke 7:41-43{I recommend reading the whole thing, just so that it's clear, but what I posted here is the key part of the passage.}One servant can be forgiven more than another. This is the teaching of Christ. How can one be forgiven more than another if all sin is equal? Are we to say that all sin is equal, but the more you sin the more in trespass you are? What then? Are the Murderers who have only killed twice less guilty than the child who insults his mother every day he comes home from school?Once again, as well, in the Gospel of Luke, we see;" And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."~Luke 12:47-48In every conceivable way the Scriptures direct us very clearly on this issue. Sin's are not binary. Killing is more severe than insulting. I have seen this false teaching of "all sins are equal" destroy lives before my very eyes. It took a while for my church to wake up and start listening, and stop teaching it. They did, of course, because they put in a few minutes into actually studying it.There is a great deal more proof than this, but I hope this will bring clarity to each of you.In hope, Tyrel
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    All sin is equal in the eyes of the Lord all sin cept one all is forgivable upon repentanceChrist died for all sin he didnt die more for one and less for the others.Sin is sin wages of sin is deathMat 5:21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.Mat 5:27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.
     
  12. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    ... Stunning rebuttal... You've certainly made me reconsider my position. [​IMG]
     
  13. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    Since this question was posted on the Non-Christian board, I gear my answers to those who are just considering becoming Christians. Or those who are new in their faith. Their needs are different than those who have been Christian a while.From my observation, new Christians go thru a honeymoon period where the walk is easy. I have seen baby Christians have longterm addictions & bad habits just fall away (without their effort) during this period. I have seen God preform many miracles during this part of a Christian's life.After this, there comes a heavier conviction about sin. At this stage, I've seen many new Christians become overwhelmed. They become more aware that there are habits they need to break & attitudes they need to change. But too much to tackle & not sure where to start. At this stage, I counsel that they develop a habit of reading the Bible (so they have some basis to decide what is good & what isn't.) And regular prayer, so that they get used to following God's direction on where to start. And I encourage them that we all started out where they are. None of us ever are perfect (despite our earnest striving.) And to not compare themselves to others, but instead follow the lead of God on what to tackle first.
     
  14. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    Kriss & Tyrel you are both right. But you are seeing a picture from different angles. For starters, we that are in Christ, are forgiving all our sins. As long as I walk with God, no sin (major or minor) will hinder me from entering heaven. So on the surface, it appears that I am free to sin as much as I please, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Because I now have a higher calling & obligation on my life. I died to self & became alive with Christ, to do God's will-not mine. Now when we first become Christians, we know very little, so very little is expected of us. As we grow, we become more accountable for applying what we have learned. There is a difference between sins committed in ignorance & those in direct rebellion to God. Sins committed in ignorance don't involve actively going against God's revealed will. Whereas rebellion does. Rebellion says (spiritually), I don't want You, God, to reign in this part of my life. And it opens us up to both correction from God & attacks from the enemy.One day, every human, will stand before God to be judged. Those that are in Christ have already had the judgement paid by Him. Thank you Jesus. So what are we Christians judged (evaluated) on? Did we obey? Did we serve? Did we love our neighbor? From this our reward is determined. Frankly, I don't want to stand at judgement & hear that my actions hindered someone from choosing God. Every day, I pray that my wise choices bear fruit & that my poor ones, die in the ground. Because I'm not concerned with my ultimate reward. I'm just happy to spend eternity with God & thankful that Jesus made it possible. But I am concerned about how my actions influence others. And whether I honor God in the here & now.
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You cant be a Christian and not believe in repentance. Even if you are a new Christian you must accept Christ died for your sins. The first step is to repentant. A sin is a sin there is no difference if you are thief or an adulter in the eyes of God. I dont know how anyone gets this as a licence to sin. If you accept Christ in your life part of that is to follow his Laws the ten commandments if you are not striving to do so you are not behaving in a Christian matter and you will be judged for such.In fact you will be judged harsher because you were not in ignorance.The only difference comes after you are no longer in a physical state on judgement day that is when your works comes into effect. that is the only time there is a difference.Your works are weighed against your unrepentant sins. On Judgement day.The only thing a New Christian needs to keep in mind is we all sin and we all fall short.The more good works you do the more plus"s on your side.I do agree that sins committed in ignorance wont hold the same penalty's but there again that wont be made evident until Judgement day as only God knows the heart and can Judge, whether it was truly in ignorance and why
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    What Im trying to say is we are saved by Grace we are judged by our works.
     
  17. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    Kriss, when I read your answers, I see myself 10 years ago. Nowhere did I say we should sin. Instead I said we are held accountable based on our maturity & understanding of the Word. The greater our understanding, the greater our responsibility. Let me tell you what I have learned in the past 10 years. First, I matter less & God matters more. I am willing to put aside my own opinion & suffer the weight of whatever God requires. I could say more. But I don't want you to suffer as I have. You are more blessed than I. Whether that means than you have been more obedient, I can't say.
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    we are held accountable based on our maturity & understanding of the Word. The greater our understanding, the greater our responsibility. {Quote}I agree completely I have said so but that doesnt come into play until judgement dayThats exactly what I mean by we are saved by Gods Grace we are judged by our Works (which includes our knowledge how much we learned, and loved and studied his Word) this is all part of our WorksWe are all equally saved by the Grace of God giving his only begotten Son for all our sins. But we have to ask for forgiveness, in the name of Christ.And repent from our sins and sinful ways. once done we are equal in Gods eyes. A person who is mature in the word and does no good works is held more guilty than one who is ignorant(immature) in the word and has no good works However it is only at Judgement day when our works and responsability comes into account. One who truly knows Gods word is held more responsable, then one who is ignorant of his sins, even if his sin is worse.(in human eyes)
     
  19. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Dear Kriss, I apologize for the late reply. If this is what you meant when you said what you said, then I agree with you. However, to my ears, "all sins are equal" is as far from indicative of this as "Mother of God" is from meaning that Mary was the mother of God made incarnate in the flesh.However, I would like to add to it perhaps a little bit. I believe that in God's eyes, all sins can be wiped away. However, not all are equal. What I mean here is that a murderer is forgiven just as a fornicator is forgiven, however one has been forgiven more than the other. As for this contrast only existing on judgment day, if that is indeed what you are saying, I once again, slightly disagree. I simply wish to point out that murdering somebody will mar a persons soul, and they will, forgiven or not, have to live with what scars they have during their lifetime. A warrior always carries the scent of blood, so to speak.However, I am relieved to hear that you do not mean that all sins have the same consequence and God is not more displeased with inappropriate sexual thoughts, or inappropriate sexual actions. This is one of those things which some concluded. Though they may once have had a heart for God, this was one of their steps away, followed by many more. In my opinion, this is one of the most dangerous things anyone can ever teach. In my opinion, there is not any way that "all sins are equal". For they have a varied effect on you, they can make living in repentance more or less difficult depending, relations with others can be severed, and God, in the end, forgives more, thus resulting in more love.Instead, I tell people; There is no Sin that God can't forgive. While some would argue that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is one, I would agree, but never say it that way. I believe that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not something a person can do at any point in time. I believe that it is making one self an enemy of God. I apply Jeremiah 18:7-10 to this. I know it's about the nations, however, my study of Matthew, Hebrews, and Nahum has led me to this conclusion.Just the same, I think that, though we are using different words, we, at least basically, agree for once.~Tyrel
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well we were pretty close BT untill your last sentence:)I do agree that the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not somthing we can do yet. It can only be commited one time. That time is when those put on trial by Antichristare not to premeditate what they will say. As the holy Ghost(spirit) will come upon you and speak through you (just like in Acts) if you of your own free will deny the spirit of God to speak through you it is unforgivable (though I doubt it will ever happen)Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
     
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