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Featured Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Webers_Home, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    The Greatest (a.k.a. Cassius Clay) followed a spiritual philosophy called
    Universal Sufism.

    If the Bible has it right, then the three-time heavyweight boxing champion is
    now coping with something far, far worse than Parkinson's disease.

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  2. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    This article confirms that Ali converted to Universal Sufism in his later years: 'Muhammad Ali's Religion' (Heavy, 5 June 2016).

    He will be dealing with the Lord God who said:
    1. Jesus: 'Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"' (John 14:6 ESV).
    2. Acts 4:11-12 (ESV), 'This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved'.
    When we proclaim this narrow way, we will be called bigots, discriminatory, judgmental, etc. We will be in good company with Jesus who said, 'For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few' (Matt 7:14 ESV).

    There is absolutely nobody to compare with the Jesus who divided history and still divides people, who was crucified for our sins and rose again from the dead for our justification: 'It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification' (Rom 4:24-25 ESV).

    Muhammad, Universal Sufism or any other religious figure or philosophy did not do this.

    Oz
     
  3. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    He will go to Hades awaiting the Judgement day...
     
  4. junobet

    junobet Active Member

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    That is to say, if a certain interpretation of the Bible has it right that claims that whoever is not Christian inevitably goes to hell.
    But if my interpretation of the Parable of the Goats and Sheep (Mt. 25:31-46) has it right, then Muhammed Ali may well be absolutely fine right now.
    It’s not for me to judge. But I shall be praying for his Soul.
     
  5. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    David,

    What causes you to reach that very judgmental decision??? :huh:

    Oz
     
  6. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    Since when was Matt 25:31-46 (ESV) a parable?
     
  7. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    I am not being judgmental. It is the truth, he who reject the Lord is rejected already by God.
     
  8. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    David,

    What makes you think it is the truth?

    Today is the start of Ramadan and the news is that the devils are chained for this entire month. Why is this not the truth?

    Oz
     
  9. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    Because the one who wrote the Koran and preach Islam is not the messenger of God.
     
  10. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    Luke 10:16
    “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

    Muhammad's Koran contradicts scripture. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Muhammad downgraded the son of God as merely a prophet. Jesus is the atonement for our sins, if you reject Him, you pay the price. There is no other way. Ramadan is one of the teachings of Muhammad, what do you think?

    Galatians 1:8
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.


    p.s. Did I sound harsh or anything?
     
  11. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    David,

    You wrote:
    These are your assertions. You have not provided evidence that Muhammad contradicted Scripture or downgraded the Son of God to a prophet. Without evidence from the Islamic sources, these statements are only your opinions.

    Again, you say Jesus is the atonement for our sins. This is another assertion. Do you understand that assertions demonstrate nothing?

    I'm waiting for your evidence to demonstrate the importance or otherwise of Ramadan for the Muslim.

    How about some evidence from primary sources?

    Oz
     
  12. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Based on my brief research of universal sufism they appear to reject many of Muhammad's teachings.

    Of course that is not the standard for attaining salvation, one must accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
     
  13. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Some may feel that hell isn't an appropriate topic at a funeral. But I think
    that, other than Xmas and Easter, you couldn't pick a better time to bring it
    up, especially since Christ said that the majority is headed in that direction.
    (Matt 7:13-14, Matt 22:14, Luke 13:22-24)

    According to the Bible; not many great people are called. If that's true, then
    we have to expect that the majority of the world's best and brightest
    achievers-- the really big names in sports, science, medicine, politics,
    technology, business, industry, religion, entertainment, and education, etc -
    don't, and won't, make it to safety when they pass on.

    As I watched some of the splendor and pomp of President Gerald Ford's
    funeral back in January of 2007, I couldn't help but wonder if he was in a
    position to really appreciate it; as I suspect people in hell would certainly no
    longer really care anymore whether they were given an unknown pauper's
    disposal in a city incinerator, or reverently placed in a grand tomb in the
    National Cemetery with world-wide television coverage.

    Ecc 7:2 . . It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house
    of gaiety, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this
    seriously.

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  14. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    Jesus Christ had the audacity to say...

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

    I would not want to try eternity without him!
     
  15. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    If you said that to a Muslim in my suburb, you would be spoken to harshly, 'How dare you blaspheme Islam's prophet'. How do you know that the one who wrote the Koran is not the messenger of God? How will you demonstrate that to a Muslim?

    Oz
     
  16. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    How will you explain that to the Muslim in your community and mine who is supporting Ramadan this month?
     
  17. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    Well, I can demonstrate that through their Koran.

    Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta).

    Sahih al-Bukhari 4428—The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.”
     
  18. Tiny

    Tiny New Member

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    Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God. I know because I nearly became a Muslim, until I learned that "God has no Son". God DOES have a Son, Jesus Christ.

    We are to love Muslims and their obedience, and perhaps we can learn something from them?

    During Ramadan we should pray for them, because during Ramadan Muslims often search for truth, and see dreams and visions of JESUS:)
     
  19. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    There's a case history of a man in hell located at Luke 16:19-31. Aside from
    the obvious discomforts that are indigenous to that environment; the #1
    thing on the man's mind were his surviving relatives. He was suffering
    anxiety they might share his fate and there was no way he could get a
    message out to let them know where he was.

    Ali left behind seven daughters and two sons.

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  20. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    Tiny,

    This is a CORE difference between Islam and Christianity. Who is the Muslim Jesus (Asa)? I agree we need to love Muslims and appreciate their devotion to their religion. Yes, pray for Muslims during Ramadan.

    Let's look at a few statements from the Quran regarding Jesus. This is an overview of some of the statements about Jesus (Asa) in the Quran (from my article, Is Islam a religion of peace at its core?)

    a. Curse on those who call Christ, the son of Allah

    Quran 9:30 (Yusuf Ali translation) states: ‘The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!’

    b. Jesus, son of Mary, only a messenger

    Quran 4:171 affirms:
    Quran 5:75:
    So Jesus, being the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger, which is contrary to Matt 11:27, where Jesus states that ‘all things have been handed over to me by my Father’.

    c. Jesus and Mary as gods

    Quran 5:116:
    Jesus and his mother are deities and the Holy Spirit is not stated as divine.

    d. Allah cannot have a son

    Quran 6:101:
    Quran 72:3, ‘And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son’.

    e. So, there can be no son who died for the sins of the world

    The Islamic deduction is that Allah cannot have a consort, i.e. a husband, wife, spouse, companion, associate or partner (Merriam-Webster Dictionary 2015. s v consort). Thus, Allah cannot have a son who died on the cross to provide salvation for people’s sins.

    f. Islam confirms this of Jesus (Asa):

    (1) Christ Jesus was the Messiah, son of Mary, and was a created being (Quran 3:45-47);
    (2) Jesus was created, like Adam as a man, from the dust when God said, ‘Be’, and he was brought into existence (Quran 3:59);
    (3) Jesus performed miracles (Quran 3:49);
    (4) Jesus was not crucified but another man like him was killed in his place (Quran 4:157).

    It is informative to read the Quran to discern the differences between Jehovah and Allah. They are radical. See: Is the God of Islam the same God as Elohim of the Christian Scriptures?


    Oz
     
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