Where Politics and Christianity Mingle.

[This Vale Of Tears]

There's no doubt that they do, and many seize upon it as a corrupting of true Christianity.

But such a purist view is completely undermined by the reality of how both good and evil progress in both the cultural and political realms. The most heinous acts of wholesale evil on this planet are devised in a political apparatus, that is, governments. Comparing how people of faith participate in government to the Bible days often sidesteps the simple fact that we aren't dealing with totalitarian governments like in the days Jesus walked the earth. We don't have caesars and kings, we have democracies and constitutions that protect people from government and give people the right to determine what laws and what people govern them.

Ideally, of course.

But I also have often argued that Jesus was the king and advocate of a heavenly kingdom with perogatives that transcend the kingdoms of men. As he said, "If my kingdom were of earth, my soldiers would fight to prevent my capture by the Jews." Christians represent a kingdom without borders, without armies, and without politicians. We are called to be something more than yet another faction as the nations rage. We are supposed to be ambassadors of heaven.

And yet again, we ought not to be so heavenly minded that we're no earthly good. Opposing evil in our day requires is to mire ourselves in politics. It's often lost that the German people were a very religious people much like Americans in the 1930's. And yet the most diabolical regime arose from the mechanism of democratic elections. Could have this been stopped short if the Christians in Germany were more politically astute and involved?

So where do politics and faith meet? It's truly a daunting question and I'd love to hear some opinions.

 

[Dan57]

Opposing evil in our day requires is to mire ourselves in politics. It's often lost that the German people were a very religious people much like Americans in the 1930's. And yet the most diabolical regime arose from the mechanism of democratic elections. Could have this been stopped short if the Christians in Germany were more politically astute and involved?

Absolutely... "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing"

But sometimes politics are the source of the the problem. Christians can mire themselves in the political process, but being more involved is no guarantee that serious problems will be avoided. Voting often leaves us little choice, little difference, and little change.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Absolutely... "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing"

But sometimes politics are the source of the the problem. Christians can mire themselves in the political process, but being more involved is no guarantee that serious problems will be avoided. Voting often leaves us little choice, little difference, and little change.

I agree with you on the fecklessness of adherence to one party over another, but the question is even broader than that, to the point it defies any simple answer. For example, patriotism has always coincided with Christian godliness in this country and rightly so. But should we remain patriotic when our country is invading sovereign nations under specious justifications and drawing out wars over a decade to maximize profits for contractors? And how supportive should we be of our country when we make corn a cash crop resulting in inflation of food prices all over the world that impacts the poorest nations the most?

And we are beginning to see the results of incestuous collaboration between faith and government. My own Catholic Church has strongly and foolishly supported the Democrat party, and now the party they supported has betrayed them by passing an insidious health care law that forces them to distribute contraceptives and abortifacient drugs in violation of our beliefs. There is some pushback among Catholics, but not enough because of how entangled we are with this party. And now there is a rift between the leadership, which renders heavy support to Democrats, and the laity which is ambiguous. This we saw when the University of Notre Dame allowed President Elect Obama to speak at their campus causing an uproar among the laity because of Obama's radical pro abortion record, not to mention he was able to convince Notre Dame to cover up any religious symbol. Catholic leaders were supporting the move and Catholic lay persons were vociferously opposed to it.

I could wax loquacious with examples, but you get the point. Throughout the long 2000 year history of the Christian church, bad things have happened when Christians got too cozy with government.

 

[aspen]

Until there is a line item veto and lobby reform, our vote means very little. The best way to fight injustice is to offer a better alternative.

Billy Graham was the first person to equate patriotism with Christianity - we have been suffering ever since. Americanism and Christianity are opposed to each other in many ways. Relativism, Materialism, Consumerism, Imperialism, the list goes on and on.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Until there is a line item veto and lobby reform, our vote means very little. The best way to fight injustice is to offer a better alternative.

Billy Graham was the first person to equate patriotism with Christianity - we have been suffering ever since. Americanism and Christianity are opposed to each other in many ways. Relativism, Materialism, Consumerism, Imperialism, the list goes on and on.

The combining of patriotism and Christianity long predates Billy Graham. Patriotism is a cornerstone of the Knights of Columbus, for example, and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" was written for propaganda for one side of the Civil War. No, this goes back a long, long ways. I agree with patriotism when our country is doing right and standing against evil in the world, but when our country becomes a proliferator of injustice, then I have to withhold my support. I'm Catholic first and everything else is a distant second. This is the way it should be with all Christians because we are sojourners in a foreign land and our citizenship is in heaven.

 

[aspen]

Here is a good article on the subject......and yes, billy graham is simply one of the evangelicals in the 20th century to combine Christianity and Patriotism in America

http://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/articles/spiritualformation/patriotismchristian.html

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Here is a good article on the subject......and yes, billy graham is simply one of the evangelicals in the 20th century to combine Christianity and Patriotism in America

http://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/articles/spiritualformation/patriotismchristian.html

Good article. Did we actually just agree on something??

 

[aspen]

We agree on many things - politics aside.

 

[Dodo_David]

As I see it, there is a difference between Christians participating in the political process and Christians trying to turn a nation into a theocracy of their liking. The former is good; the latter is bad.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

As I see it, there is a difference between Christians participating in the political process and Christians trying to turn a nation into a theocracy of their liking. The former is good; the latter is bad.

I agree. The problem is there are plenty of shades in between. I often cite the Defense of Marriage Act as an example of "family values" conservative Christians willing to violate the Constitution in order to advance Christian morality as a matter of federal law. It was understood that marriage was exclusively a states issue until Congress illegally passed anti polygamy laws targeting the Mormons in the 19th century. Since then, it's been assumed that the federal government has a say in the issue of marriage though nothing in the Constitution grants it that power. When counting "enemies of the Constitution," I readily include Christian family values groups.

 

[Dodo_David]

I agree. The problem is there are plenty of shades in between. I often cite the Defense of Marriage Act as an example of "family values" conservative Christians willing to violate the Constitution in order to advance Christian morality as a matter of federal law. It was understood that marriage was exclusively a states issue until Congress illegally passed anti polygamy laws targeting the Mormons in the 19th century. Since then, it's been assumed that the federal government has a say in the issue of marriage though nothing in the Constitution grants it that power. When counting "enemies of the Constitution," I readily include Christian family values groups.

Vale, I like it when we are in agreement. God bless you, Brother!