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WHICH Commandments?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by herald, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Nice try.Circumcision is necessary, yes. In the olden days it was physical but Paul has instructed us otherwise and now we know it to be spiritual as the above posted verses illustrate - and the spiritual nature of it was at the heart of that first covenent as well. That doesn't change the law; however, because the intent was the same.Christ changed that we can receive forgiveness when we ask forgiveness and our sins will be blotted out. As Christ said, the law didn't change, he only fulfilled it by bestowing the Grace of God upon us. If we accept Christ, we will be forgiven for the transgressions of the law that we make. No longer are we held to every single law because none of us can keep them, we now have the all-time sacrifice of Jesus Christ through which we ask forgiveness. That doesn't mean you don't follow the law and attempt and live by it - you should follow the law because it's His law and doing so is the instruction of Jesus himself, nevermind the Apostle Paul. The difference is when you in that commandment you're not removed from heaven as some religions would have us think; that by no means makes the law null and void.Going by your logic, it'd be okay to bow down to another god but then come back to Jesus because Thou shalt have no other gods before me no longer holds any water.
     
  2. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (SwampFox;4053)
    Circumcision is necessary, yes.
    'Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.' Gal 5:2 NIVSo was Paul a rebel, or is divine law in some measure related to dispensation?
     
  3. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Using your interpretation of his logic here it seemingly conflicts with what he said in Romans 2 and Colossians:Romans 2:25-29 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.Colossians 2:11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:However, we know that not to be the case; obviously Paul was referencing those who commit solely the physical act and circumcise themselves without accepting Christ. Clearly not a rebel at all when you put those words up to the teaching of Christ.Let's also post the following verses (3-4) which sheds a little more light:Galatians 5:3-4For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.Obviously, this is referencing those who are more concerned with following the law (and in a sense worshiping the law) over loving God. Again, I go back to Hosea 6:6 where God wants love and not the burnt offerings. In the teachings of Yehsua, he wants us first to love God and then live by his law as an auxilary; not the other way around which is what the Jewish community (amongst others) does.Again, if you claim to love God but kill your brother/sister/etc, are you really a Christian? If you love God with all your heart on the outside but practice spiritualism and/or pray to other Gods, are you following Him? Are you doing the Christian thing when you cheat on your spouse? Obviously not. Why? Because we have the law that is still in effect. That law will not pass until this heaven and this earth pass as the words Yeshua spoke to us in Matthew 5 illustrate.
     
  4. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (SwampFox;4060)
    Using your interpretation of his logic here it seemingly conflicts with what he said in Romans 2 and Colossians:
    So how do you explain Gal.5:2? Also this:'This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.' 1 Cor 7:17-18 NIVDoes Scripture conflict with Scripture?
     
  5. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    It seems that you're just as picky about replying to posts as you are about commandments, I explained it right below the part of my post that you quoted. God's Word never contradicts itself, you can take that one to the bank.
     
  6. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (SwampFox;4062)
    God's Word never contradicts itself, you can take that one to the bank.
    So when Paul wrote 'He should not be circumcised,' we can be certain that an OT law had been brought to an end. Therefore, the seventh day Sabbath may have been also.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Pointer I don't understand the meaning of your post Swampfox is right physical circumcision is a matter of health law now you can chose chose to follow it or not circumcision of the heart is the necessary replacement the sabbath was fulfilled by Jesus on the cross The law, containing the sabbath day ordinance, has been "nailed to the cross" (Col. 2: 14). Thus, we are to let no man judge us "in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holiday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Col. 2: 16). The sabbath day was part of God's covenant with the Jews; the first day of the week is the day associated with Jesus' new covenant or testament (Heb. 8; 9).You need to understand the differences of laws and ordinances
     
  8. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (kriss;4071)
    physical circumcision is a matter of health law now you can chose chose to follow it or not circumcision of the heart is the necessary replacement the sabbath was fulfilled by Jesus on the cross The law, containing the sabbath day ordinance, has been "nailed to the cross" (Col. 2: 14). Thus, we are to let no man judge us "in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holiday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Col. 2: 16). The sabbath day was part of God's covenant with the Jews;
    Agreed, except that there is no law regarding circumcision for health reasons in any country, afaik.
    the first day of the week is the day associated with Jesus' new covenant or testament (Heb. 8; 9).
    That verse does not mention the first day of a week. I can see no spiritual reason for anyone to have a week of seven days, or a week at all.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    circumcision an is an ordance
     
  10. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (kriss;4073)
    circumcision an is an ordance
    1 Cor. 7:17-18.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I believe you are taking the verse to literal if you are called you receive circumcision of the heart no more or less is needed
     
  12. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (kriss;4076)
    circumcision of the heart no more or less is needed
    I agree there.
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    We agree?is the sky falling?Did the sun rise in the West? am I dead and no one told me? LOLgood day to you pointer
     
  14. pointer

    pointer New Member

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    (kriss;4078)
    We agree?is the sky falling?Did the sun rise in the West? am I dead and no one told me? LOLgood day to you pointer
    Good day to you, kriss.
     
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