1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Which generation is "this generation"?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by shnarkle, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    198
    "34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. " Matthew 24:34

    Which generation? The texts indicate not only that it was the generation listening, but explicitly point out that the judgment would fall upon Jerusalem and the elders who were such a corrosive and corrupting influence over them.

    The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
    (Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-18)
    "45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,THEY PERCEIVED THAT HE SPAKE OF THEM." Matthew 21:33-45
    "he sent forth his armies, and destroyed THOSE murderers, and burned up THEIR city." Matthew 22:7
    " how can ye escape the damnation of hell?34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. "Matthew 23:33-36

    Here's the judgment language Jesus uses:
    "the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" Matthew 24:29

    Where have we seen this judgment language used before? Jesus was a prophet using judgment/condemnation language right from his own Hebrew scriptures, and he is explicitly referring to the judgment that will come upon Jerusalem.

    " the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. "Isaiah 13:10

    Jesus was living during the Pax Romana which was a time of peace so for Jesus to say there will be wars and rumors of wars would have been seen as ludicrous. Josephus(a Jewish General in Jewish army, soldier, and Pharisee) recorded the wars between the Romans and Jews. During this time there was a star that resembled a "sword". Some saw "visions of chariots"; many signs and wonders. Everyone thought it was a sign of divine judgement. The temple doors blew open and great sounds, earthquakes, and a voice which said, "let us remove hence" Josephus recorded all of this. Book 20;ch.8;section 6 "imposters led the people into the wilderness, Felix brought them back...many false prophets"

    Some will claim that none of this could have happened already because the gospel hasn't been preached to the whole world. Here's what the bible states.

    "I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout THE WHOLE WORLD." Romans 1:8

    "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known TO ALL THE NATIONS for the obedience of faith" Romans 16:25,26

    "the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in ALL THE WORLD " Col.1:6

    Some will also claim that Jesus is referring to the end of the world, but " the end of the age"(Gr. "aion") in Matthew 24:3 is a better translation than the end of the "world" (Gr. "cosmos")

    So the question is then how come no one see's Christ coming during the destruction of Jerusalem? The reason is that Christ's judgment doesn't require his presence. Here's the proof:

    "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

    People don't seem to have a problem remembering that verse, but can't seem to remember this one:

    "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48

    Even with this fresh in our minds, how many notice that it isn't actually Christ who is doing the judging?

    When Jesus says that those who reject him do not receive his words, he's referring to his teachings, his doctrines which are the commandments of God. He's using a Metonymy, but this doesn't negate the fact that it is the law that will condemn those who disobey God. Paul puts it this way, "the letter kills". Here's yet another way to put it:

    "37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. "Matthew 12:37

    When we look at Christ's judgment upon Jerusalem it is the same story except that people not only forget that he is referring to Jerusalem, they seem to think that his judgment requires his presence as well. It doesn't, especially when the figure Metonymy is being used which puts him for the execution of his judgment. Here is the definition of the figure with examples to compare it to.

    Metonymy; or, Change of noun. The change of one noun for another related noun. Me-ton-y-my; from "meta" indicating change, and "onoma", a name; or, in grammar, a noun.
    Metonymy is a figure by which on name or noun is used instead of another, to which it stands in a certain relation; it is founded upon relation.

    The change is in the noun, and only in a verb as connected with the action preceeding from it.

    When we say that a person writes "a bad hand", we do not mean the hand, but the 'hand' is used for the characters which it writes.

    Metonymy is of four kinds: viz., of the Cause, of the Effect, of the Subject, and of the Adjunct.

    Metonymy of the Cause is when the cause is put for the effect: i.e., when the doer is put for the thing done; or, the instrument for that which is effected; or, where the action is put for the effect produced by the action.

    There are four kinds: 1. The person for the action; 2. The instrument for the effect;3. The thing or action for its product; and 4. The material cause for the matter made.

    For example: The Spirit is put for the gifts and operations of the Spirit.

    "Did you on believing receive the Holy Spirit?" Acts 19:2 Here referring to the gifts of the Spirit because they had already received Him, or they could not have believed at all. Verse 6 also shows that this must be so, for the very gifts and powers are named and exercised.

    "Forasmuch as you are also zealous of spirits" 1 Cor.19:12 i.e., of spiritual powers and gifts and revelations.

    The writer is put for his writing of book.

    Luke 26:29 "They have Moses (i.e. his writings) and athe prophets (.e. their writings); let them hear them."

    The organs of speech are put for the testimony given.

    Deut. 27:6 "At the mouth (i.e. on the testimony) of two witnesses or three shall he...be put to death"

    The mouth is put for the precept or command given.

    Gen.14:21 "And Joseph gave them wagons, according to the mouth (i.e. commandment) of Pharaoh"

    The tongue is put for what is spoken by it.

    Ps. 5:9 "They flatter with their tongue" i.e. with what it says.

    The throat is put for the words spoken

    Ps. 9 "Their throat (i.e. their speech) is an open sepulchre"

    The hand is put for the actions performed by it.

    2 Sam. 3:12 "My hand (i.e. my help) shall be with thee"

    Anger and wrath are put for the punishment, and various acts which flow from them.

    Rom. 2:5 "Thou treasurest up unto theyself wrath" i.e. the judgments produced by it.

    Rom. 4:5 "The law worketh wrath" i.e. inflicts or executes punishements and penalties. The word "execute" is actually supplied in Rom.13:4

    Sin and its synonyms are put for the effects or pounishment of sin.

    Jer. 14:16 "I will pour their wickedness upon them" i.e. the punishment on account of their wickedness.

    Zech. 14:19 "This shall be the sin of Egypt" i.e. the punishment for Egypt's sin.

    When Christ is said to bear our sins, it means that he bore the punishment (i.e.death) which was due to them. Heb. 9:28; 1 Pet. 2:24

    Christ is put for his people.

    Acts 4:4 "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" i.e. My people who belong to me. See vs 5, and compare vss. 1 and 2.

    Jesus is put for his doctrine.

    2 Cor.11:4 "For if he that comes preaching another Jesus" i.e. a different doctrine or teaching concerning Jesus.
    ------------
     
    brakelite likes this.
  2. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    198

    More Judgment/condemnation language in the Hebrew scriptures:
    " the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
    6Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
    7Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
    8And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
    9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
    10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
    11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible...13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger...15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." Isaiah 13:5-11,13,15-16
    "I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.
    38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
    39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.
    40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.
    41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more. " Ezekiel 16:37-41

    "the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 2But who may abide the day of his coming?... like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:...Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not...For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.... for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." Malachi 3;18
    " all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
    5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
    6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood,...and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
    10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever...there shall the vultures also be gathered," Isaiah 34:4-10,15
    "As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries... and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
    7And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities...10Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
    11Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
    12Wilt thou refrain thyself for these things, O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace, and afflict us very sore?" Isaiah 64:2,7,10-12
    " I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not."
     
    charity and brakelite like this.
  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    4,378
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    FALSE. Everything was not fulfilled at that time.

    It is not a generation but the nation or race or family of Israel. Check out the meaning of the Greek word genea.

    Strong's Concordance
    genea: race, family, generation
    Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ

    Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    Transliteration: genea
    Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
    Definition: race, family, generation
    Usage: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 1074: γενεά
    2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family...

    No one expected the nation of Israel to spring up in 1948, and then survive for another 70 years. So when all things are fulfilled, it will include the fate of the current nation of Israel. Indeed since Jerusalem has now been declared to be the capital of Israel, Bible prophecies are even closer to being fulfilled. The Preterists and Amillennialists must be quite embarrassed.
     
    pompadour and Keraz like this.
  4. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    162
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Isaiah 40:15-17 To the Lord, all the nations are as drops in a bucket, no more than specks of dust, He reckons them as less than nothing.

    Obadiah 1:15 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations1. They will be treated as they have treated others, their evil schemes will recoil upon themselves.

    Micah 5:15 In anger and fury, I shall wreak vengeance onto the nations who disobey Me.

    Psalm 110:5-6 The Right Hand of God2 will crush kings on the Day of His wrath. He will judge the nations, shattering them, all over the earth1.

    Zechariah 1:15 I am deeply angry with the nations that are enjoying their ease, because they have exacerbated My peoples suffering.

    Joel 3:2 I shall indict all the nations1 and bring them into the Valley of Jehoshepat [judgement] I shall judge them on behalf of My people, Israel – now scattered among the nations, as enemies have shared out and taken over My Land1.

    Haggai 2:21-22 I shall shake the heavens and the earth1, I shall overthrow the leaders and break the power of the heathen nations, destroying all military strength. They will fight amongst themselves, to their destruction.

    Zephaniah 1:7 & 3:8 Keep silent in the presence of the Lord God, for the Day of the Lord is near1. The Lord has prepared a sacrifice and set apart those He has invited. Therefore wait for the Day I stand up and take action. I will pour out My wrath upon the nations, the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My anger1.

    Habakkuk 3:6 & 12 The Lord comes from His holy place2, His radiance covers the sky and His brightness fills the earth. He is not visible2 as His lightning flashes and the tempest rages. The nations panic as He tramples them in His anger by His fiery punishment1.


    Psalms 149:4-9 The Lord accepts the service of His people, He crowns the humble with salvation. Let His loyal servants rejoice in this honour as they praise Him in adoration3, trusting in the sword of His Word, [Revelation 1:16] as it inflicts punishment onto the godless nations. The judgement decreed against their leaders and councillors will be carried out2. This is glory for all those who follow and obey the Lord3. Praise the Lord! Ref: REB. Abridged


    1/ The Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath is near. He will judge all the nations, but especially those enemies who have taken over the holy Land.

    He will shake the heavens and the earth, His fiery punishment will envelope the earth.

    2/ The Right Hand of God, [Jesus] comes out of His holy place, but will not be seen at this time. Psalms 18:11, Hab 2:3

    He will indict the nations and instigate this terrible destruction of fire; massive explosion of the suns surface, that will cause earthquakes, devastate the nations and carry out the decreed judgement on their leaders.

    3/ The Lord’s people will rejoice and praise Him for their salvation, as they see justice at last upon the earth.

    This is glory for all His faithful ones! Praise the Lord for His mighty deeds!
     
  5. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    198
    Nope. Fail. Read the OP, or your posts will be ignored as well. Address what's posted. Refute it if you think you can, but we're not reading a bunch of scripture that has nothing to do with the OP.
     
  6. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    162
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I did read the OP and I disagree with it.
    The 'generation' that Jesus meant in Matthew 24:34 is not a generation of the succession of progeny, as happens at various times and for various reasons.
    He referred to the people who will be alive at the time 'the fig tree buds', the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, and the rest of the 'trees'; nations become settled and prosperous. As they mostly did after WW2.
    So anyone born before, in or after 1948 who is alive today, has the chance to 'see it all'. All, that is: of the prophesied events of the end times, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

    My post #4 is relevant, but because it contradicts your beliefs, you fail to understand what the Prophesies actually tell us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    pompadour and Bobby Jo like this.
  7. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    328
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It should be interesting that where Israel was "conceived" in 1924, it was "born" in 1948. And a 70 year "generation" would end in 2018, which was last year, and so maybe 80 years "by strength" which could run until 2028 -- or somewhere between the two, possibly closer to 2021, which I expect is the timing proposed by the Prophetic Psalms.

    Now if we had a war in the Middle East, we could have some additional perspective, -- if we only had a war ...

    Bobby Jo
     
    pompadour and dorian37grey like this.
  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Your substitution of "race, family, or generation", i.e. "nation" ("Verily I say unto you, This [nation] shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.") doesn't work the way you have purposed.

    Jesus said He was "the Last."

    But what that (His word on it) should tell you...is that the modern nation of Israel (so called), is not the Israel of the bible.

    “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
     
    Waiting on him likes this.
  9. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    198
    Obviously you disagree with it. I'm not denying that fact. What I'm asking for isn't complicated. Simply address the points I've made and refute them. I'm not looking for you to tell me the earth is round, or supply me with all manner of scripture to support your position. I am already familiar with your position. I don't need to have it rehashed over and over again. I am simply asking for you to reconcile the points I have posted with yours. This isn't rocket science. Look at each point, and address how they fit in with your position. That's it.

    This isn't even remotely compelling. Israel was a state when he made his claims. There is nothing to suggest your interpretation as no one in the narrative even bothers to ask him what the hell he's talking about. That would be the natural response if the State of Israel already existed. The fact is that the texts indicate they knew he was talking about them, not some people who would live after the Jewish state ceased to exist and then became a state again.

    I already addressed this. Are you going to address my argument, or even try to refute it? I've done both.

    False. To simply contradict a position doesn't prove your position is true. I'm not presenting beliefs. I'm presenting evidence from the texts to support an argument; one which you are not only not refuting, but even addressing in the first place.

    You failed to address the points presented in the OP. Going off on your own tangent doesn't address, much less explain anything. Don't for a second assume that we don't understand your argument. It's perfectly clear what your position is. You just have a few cracks that need to be patched up. Address the OP so that we can see a coherent defense for what you believe.
     
  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    352
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    @Enoch111 is on the right track in stating that "genea" is not a "descendant generation." But the definition he has used, he copied from the Bible Hub Web site and is at the top of the page. However at the bottom of that column, the following is stated: -

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    age, generation
    From (a presumed derivative of) genos; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons) -- age, generation, nation, time. ​

    The Greek word γενεὰ has more affinity with the concept of an "age", i.e. a 1,000 plus years, than to a "descendant generation" which is on average only around 40 years between the respective births of each "generation," i.e. descendant generations.

    ScottA, on the other hand also has it wrong in his expressed words in his post by making fun of Enoch111.

    Now was Jesus describing the length of time that Israel would be a nation once more before God, or was He describing the length of time between when we saw the establishment of Israel through earthly endeavour, or when God gathers Israel to Himself and redeems them once more.

    Matt_24:32 provides all of the information of the duration of the period between when the fig tree begins the budding process and the redemption of Israel by God, and Matt_24:34, informs us of the duration of the events that will occur after their redemption until the end of the last age.

    Wisdom comes with understanding and the "Jewish/Israelite scholars," who become a part of the "church," did not have the wisdom or understanding to comprehend what Jesus was laying out before them concerning the end times and its duration.

    Shalom
     
    pompadour likes this.
  11. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Giving the correct answer is not "making fun." On the other hand, you have made a false accusation.

    And yet you quoted the correct time, but apparently do not understand that "the budding process" began with Christ and the apostles.
     
    Waiting on him likes this.
  12. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    162
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    That is like brick wall head butting.
    If people have a fixed idea of God's plans, nothing I can say will change it.
    Jesus was a Prophet, His statement about the fig tree budding, was a prophecy. Judah did not 'bud' or prosper in the first century.
    So to place it when the Jewish State was formed is very compelling.
    Your arguments are refuted by the Bible prophets. I have written many articles on what we can expect in our future, about 5 books worth. Would posting all that help? No, because you have decided what you want already.
    It is going to be tough for you and all who have failed to understand, as difficult times come to the world.
     
    pompadour and Bobby Jo like this.
  13. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    352
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    And yet Scott, you do not understand the parable of the Fig Tree as to when the budding of the fruit on the tree would begin and that there would be another 2,000 or so years before that would happen when the fig tree will be allowed to begin budding once more.

    Israel had a period of two ages before God would incline His ears towards Israel and their bleating. Israel still have to repent of their iniquities before God to be redeemed in our near future.

    Your twisting of words and the subsequent spiritualisation of the facts do leave a lot to be desired.

    Which calls into question your false accusation of myself in your response to what I had posted. Your professed wisdom is not wisdom at all.

    Shalom
     
  14. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    352
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    And you have just described how people feel about your understanding and the flawed understanding that you are pushing on this forum.

    Shalom
     
  15. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    "Spiritualizing" is the language of everyone in Christ in God. His word is spirit. God is spirit.

    Now...if you are quite through mocking the very way and essence of God...

    Apparently, you do not know what it is you are reading. It's all there: Jesus was "the Last" of Israel, of that "generation." Your 2000 year error is "the times of the gentiles", "another fold."
     
  16. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    352
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    REALLY Scott you believe your own bull pads? You claim spiritual wisdom? Yet, you are mocking God's wisdom, and attempting to speak as if you have the very ear of God and speak with Him face to face.

    Yes, we are in the time of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling the sanctuary of God. Yes we are in the time of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers being visited upon the fathers' children and their children's children for a period of around 2,000 years. Yes, the parable of the Fig tree and the gardener who will tend it for another season such that if the fig tree bears no fruit after the passing of the fourth season, then the gardener will allow the Lord to destroy Israel, but the end of the fourth season is not yet upon us and still has around 25 years or so to go before the fig tree is inspected for fruit in our near future.

    ScottA, it seems to me that you have very big blind spots in your spiritualised understanding of God's word.

    Shalom
     
  17. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What "seems" to you, is all in your perception.

    But you error greatly:

    Matthew 21:19
    "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." All of which occurred 2000 years ago.
     
  18. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    198
    I just posted Jesus' own words, and then compared them to Isaiah (one of many). They're practically identical, and more importantly, they're both a judgment upon Israel. One that came to pass in 70 AD just as he said it would. What more proof does one need?

    You, on the other hand; have spent your life engaging in conjecture. Sure, it could be compelling, but why look for the end of the world when we all know it will eventually end for each and every one of us anyways? This world is passing away, and has been since the beginning. For some, it passes away in the twinkling of an eye, for others it is spent in tedious observations of its inevitable decline. I guess it all depends on what you feel is important to focus on.

    I just pointed out a few simple observations which you have elected to ignore. Fair enough. They're not going away. They'll always be there wondering how to fit in with your contradictory narrative. Obviously, you're not the one who will be able to reconcile these internal contradictions your narrative has created within scripture.

    All four gospel writers are writing to the early church and all of these churches were Jewish when these were being written down. For any observant Jew, the very idea of the destruction of the Temple would be tantamount to removing the heart from the earth; the heart from humanity itself. Without a heart, the rest of humanity is doomed as the life giving blood that was once being pumped from the heart will soon stop coarsing through the rest of humanity as well. The end is inevitable for those who are still waiting for a heart transplant.

    For those who have received the new one, that zombie life is over, and good riddence.
     
  19. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    352
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Scott, as usual, you are hanging your hat on the peg of flawed English translations.

    The Greek text actually presents a very different picture.

    The parable I was referring to is found in Luke_13, but you have found a fallible English translation passage which indicates that Israel will be no more.

    You did a word search to find that scripture and then quoted the flawed translation to "prove" your case.

    ScottA, you will have to show better scholarship that that to show your wisdom is believable on this forum thread.

    Shalom
     
  20. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Said the "scholar" to the Spirit.

    Fail.
     
Loading...