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Which part of Revelation 17-18 does not fit USA?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Suhar, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    Which part of Revelation 17-18 does not fit USA? We do not kill saints? But we do kill tens of millions of unborn that are saints since they did not even get to be born.
     
  2. Purity

    Purity New Member

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    Your logic is unreasoned.

    The great prostitute has always been apostate. I get that you want to labelled an unholy gentile nation as filth but this is not keeping with the divine record.

    You do realise a wh_re is an unfaithful woman, don't you ? And as, in Bible symbology, the Ecclesia (church) is liken to a "chaste virgin in Christ" (2Co 11:2).

    So....

    Unfaithfulness towards Jesus is likened to harlotry (James 4:4; Rev 2:20).

    In Rev 12:1-2 the Ecclesia is described as being "with child," due to her unfaithful association with the world. In the chapter 17 the full extent of her wickedness is made obvious. It is sobering to realise that Babylon the Great developed out of the church. The apostasy commenced by an early relatively unimportant declension from the faith, which not being properly checked, found its final growth in the heartless, wicked system presented in this chapter as a drunken whore.

    I am happy to show you in great detail how Christianity has gone astray throughout the whole world and reveal the way in which this took place throughout the past 2000 years.

    I think many here would value such insight into a living and abiding Word.

    Purity.
     
  3. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    HUH? :huh:

    So "Babylon the Great" is the man-child of the Ekklesia and "was caught up to God, and to his throne"???

    Revelation 12:1-5 KJV
    1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    2. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


    Perhaps you might find it somewhat enlightening to compare this with Isaiah 66:7-8 in its accompanying context! :)
     
  4. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    [SIZE=medium]Nation that started as Christian nation is now biggest producer of filth in the world. Which country makes more porn then US?[/SIZE]

    What does it all have to do with Revelation 17-18? Just because it is a woman it does not mean that it is the one mentioned in 17-18.


    [SIZE=medium]When I read 17-18 everything screams USA to me. Biggest consumer of the world, goods delivered by sea, fornicating with all kings of the world….. I do not see anything in there that does not fit US. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Without complicated theological “maybes” can somebody tell me which part of 17-18 does not fit US?[/SIZE]
     
  5. The_highwayman

    The_highwayman New Member

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    Suhar,
    This is not the US, you need to read prior chapters to gain the insight about who the great whore is. She is not the apostate church either. The church is gone by this time period.
     
  6. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    I red previous chapters. I do not see anything there that tells me that 17-18 are not about US.
     
  7. The_highwayman

    The_highwayman New Member

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    Shuhar,
    Who worships the great whore?
     
  8. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    [SIZE=medium]Never heard of patriotism? I love my country, I will die for my country…. [/SIZE]


    [SIZE=medium]People all over the world dream about the great country where streets are paved with gold, copy what they see in American movies. How many people worship the American Dollar?[/SIZE]




    [SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
     
  9. The_highwayman

    The_highwayman New Member

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    Who worships the great whore?
     
  10. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    I already unswered your question. If great whore is USA then there are plenty of people who worship it to the point of sacrificing themselves, willing to die for it.
     
  11. The_highwayman

    The_highwayman New Member

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    Suhar,
    The US is not the great whore, it is not a country.
     
  12. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    Says you.

    What is it then?
     
  13. Purity

    Purity New Member

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    Rev 12:5

    Daq, It is written of the Man of Sin, prophetically referred to by Paul, that he would "oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (2Th 2:4).

    In succeeding ages, the prelates of Rome claimed to represent God on earth, and to be enthroned as such in what they claimed to be His temple, the church. Constantine laid the foundation for such a development. Ignoring the pagan "gods of his fathers" he "magnified himself above all" and claimed the divine right to rule (see Dan 11:37), in the course of which he honoured "a god whom his (pagan) fathers knew not." In his rise to power, and in his presumption in deciding matters of doctrine and church practice, Constantine ascended into the political and ecclesiastical heavens. His influence and authority paved the way for the emergence of the god of the earth (Rev 11:4), to whose throne (the Church) he aspired. Figuratively, he was "caught up to God, and to His throne."

    I appreciate Daq your interpretation differs from the above, especially in terms of understanding the highly symbolic nature of the Apocalypse. Many cannot speak to such figurative language and therefore remain in a darkened state.

    Isaiah 66 is speaking literally of the Hezekiah being new born from the brink of death at a time during the great Assyrian crisis. Prophetically it speaks to Jesus Christ the man - child born to Israel "before' the travail of AD70 (Jn 16:20-21)

    In this I agree whole heartedly the vision of Isa 66 is one of Jesus Christ and the spiritual birth of a New Order of Priesthood.

    Now Daq for you to suggest this event and the event of Rev 12 are connected is blasphemy for Christ birth was not without a Father and certainly not given life from an adulterous relationship.

    She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. (Rev 12:2)

    Who impregnated her?
    And what is the symbol of these birth pains and great agony she is experiencing?

    John sees a woman in the political heavens about to give birth to a baby while a red dragon is waiting to consume it as soon as its born. Now the Revelation is not going back to explain the events of Acts 1 & 2,these have already past!

    You have no context for your argument as John made it very clear :The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place"

    The Apocalypse is only looking forward to future historical events most of which has already taken place.

    The context of Revelation has than been given to you in Rev 2:20-23 - you know the body of Christ is meant to be as a chaste virgin 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:23 and now is represented as having a child without a husband? James 4:4?

    Isaiah 66 speaks to a Chaste virgin! Not an adulterous mother with child.

    Purity
     
  14. Pilgrimer

    Pilgrimer Active Member

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    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The truth is these things can be said of almost any city-state that has ever been prosperous. But there is one description of Mystery Babylon that fits only one city that has ever existed ...

    "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain on the earth." Revelation 18:24

    The only city in the history of the world that God ever held accountable for the blood of the prophets of the Old Testament and the saints of the New Testament was Jerusalem:

    "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto you ..." Matthew 23:29-27

    There is only one city God has ever held accountable for the blood of all the prophets and saints shed upon the earth, and that city was destroyed with a horrible destruction that took place during a 7-year war in the generation that saw the first coming of Jesus.

    In Christ,
    Pilgrimer
     
  15. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    How was Jerusalem fornicating with all kings of the world in the time when most of the world was not discovered? Was it huge consumed of goods of the world?

    US kills plenty of Christians or gets them killed. Just ask Serb, Iraqi and now Syrian Christians.

    Mystery Babylon and harlot of Babylon may not be same thing. Word Babylon is not used as literal city of Babylon in both cases.
     
  16. Purity

    Purity New Member

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    Go back over your threads and see how lacking they are of Scripture. God's revelation has not deviated from the History of His people and those nations who have either persecuted them beyond His expectation, or those true Christians of low estate, which history has little if nothing to say about.

    Your USA hating theology is founded in man made notions and if you existed 200 years ago you would be pointing at another super power maybe China etc.

    Best you cease from posting and begin a journey into the Living and abiding Word of God for only there will you find truth.

    Gods speed.

    Purity
     
  17. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    I thought that I am talking to somebody who knows sriptures and what passages I am referring to. My mistake.

    Also, you cannot support your argument with facts or scriptures so you go straight into personal insults? It is always a clear sign of lost argument.

    There is nothing anti-American in what I am saying. Just because I do not like what Govenment is doing in my name does not mean that I hate this country.
    Kinda weak on history? 200 years ago China was in no condition to be a candidate for superpower status.
     
  18. Purity

    Purity New Member

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    I am yet to see your Scripture. Plenty to support apostate Christianity but where is the US in the Scriptures?

    So you hate the government but not the people?

    Nothing anti American?

    So you hate the government even though we are told in Rom 13:1 to be subject unto these powers?

    Yes you are right China was actually in a very poor state 200 years ago. It popped into my head as an example but the Brits would have been a better example. You get the point though - its all good to point at a single country but you should know the Revelation is about bring all nations together for war not just the USA. Rev 18:3,23; Rev 16:14

    Purity
     
  19. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    So far the only blasphemer here is yourself who claims that Zion-Jerusalem of Above is the harlot mother of abominations from Revelation 17-18 and the mother of "Babylon the Great" which you have asserted is the "man-child" of the Revelation 12 woman. According to Galatians 4:24-26 our "mother Covenant" is Jerusalem of Above. You have made yourself the blasphemer because you took not the sayings of the Master to heart when he states that Jerusalem is the city of the Great King:

    Galatians 4:22-26 KJV
    22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
    23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
    24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


    Perhaps your choice of doctrine is what is left when you refuse to believe that YOU are the temple of God:

    Acts 7:47-53 KJV
    47. But Solomon built him an house.
    48. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
    49. Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
    50. Hath not my hand made all these things?
    51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
    52. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
    53. Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.


    Do you not recognize that this statement of Stephen is a quote from Isaiah 66:1-2?

    Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
    1. Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    2. For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

    Perhaps you should reconsider the doctrine of Yeshua which states that "the kingdom of God is within you", (Luke 17:20-21).
    Otherwise your "eyes of the flesh" version of the Covenant needs to be burned down with fire before the vail will be removed. :)
     
  20. Suhar

    Suhar New Member

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    I do not have my scriptures I just, apparently mistakenly assumed that you know which God's scriptures I am talking about.

    I do subject to Govenment. My citizenship is in heaven.
     
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