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Those are specifically the Jews who repent and are then protected in the Petra/Bozrah area. We know this because Revelation says the Beast is given power over the Saints, but that is only the Gentile Saints who missed the Rapture. As we see in verses 24-27 these Jewish Elect can not b DECIEVED, because Jesus has told them before hand.Who are the elect?
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The Elect are all the Christian peoples, God's Chosen ones. Titus 1:1, 1 Peter 2:9-10Who are the elect?
Not so, God chose EVERYONE to salvation. These things are basic but we do not cross reference the bible, that's where a book (Bible) written over 2000 years ago gets bogged down in our misunderstandings.The elect are those who God has chosen to Salvation.
And now we have the universalism heresy. Not everyone goes to Heaven, sorry, harsh reality.Not so, God chose EVERYONE to salvation. These things are basic but we do not cross reference the bible, that's where a book (Bible) written over 2000 years ago gets bogged down in our misunderstandings.
So, does God desire for ALL MEN to be saved? Yes
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
So God calls every man unto repentance, He is NO RESPECTER of men. He will not chose you over me or vice versa, that is not in God's essence, it is in Satan's essence.
So, what does it mean when Pauo says God PREDESTINATED US That has to mean he choose some and not others right? WRONG, it meas he predestinated us ALL to life eternal through Jesys Christs sacrifice.
In plain modern English Pau would have said it this way, God foreknew that we would all become sinners via Adam, thus he FOREKNEW He would have to provide a sacrifice to redeem us and give us life eternal.
Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
{{{ God FOREKNEW us all !! Thus He predestinated us all to be CONFORMED unto Jesus, but we have to be WILLING because God gives us all FREEWILL !! He justified us all, if we CHOOSE Salvation. }}}
Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ephesians 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
People do not quite understand the way someone wrote 2000 years ago so instead of cross checking scriptures they run with stuff like this, and discount the other passages that might make them PONDER & THINK, on what the Predestination verses actually mean, and it just means God predestinated a Lamb for us to all be saved, that is all Paul is saying.
But people run with the very thing that would make God not a just God, it makes absolutely no sense to me to be honest. So, God created men and says YOU are going to hell, I have PREDETERMINED THAT !! NOT...
That is not God and not what Paul said either, Paul said we were PREDESTINED to life eternal through Jesus Christ. God FOREKNEW we would need a sacrifice, thus Jesus was slain before the foundations of the earth.
Nope, read Romans 9. Some are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.So, does God desire for ALL MEN to be saved? Yes
For starters you give a half verse and don't even understand the full context. Romans 9, 10 and 11 are one passage that has to be read all together to understand it. You failed to post the full verse because it defeats your point, Paul was saying (and you knew this) WHAT IF?Nope, read Romans 9. Some are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.
For starters you give a half verse and don't even understand the full context. Romans 9, 10 and 11 are one passage that has to be read all together to understand it. You failed to post the full verse because it defeats your point, Paul was saying (and you knew this) WHAT IF?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
So, let me explain all three chapters unto you.
Paul is writing unto his Roman Gentile flock/Church. As a Pastor, writing letters to his flock, I don't see Paul's words as "Thus saith the Lord" The Old Testament Prophets ended that, then John made the way for Jesus, and we have four men's testament of Jesus' life(Gospels). Then we basically get a bunch of letter to Churches where we don't always get the full understandings because we don't see the letters they were answering and at times Paul does not explain in detail because he is referring back to things he has already taught them or told them, like the Church DEPARTING before the DOTL in 2 Thess. 2:3. Not a falling away from the faith.
So, Paul is telling the Gentiles about why God had now taken the mantel away from Israel and the Jews via taking the Gospel unto the whole world and given it unto the Gentiles. So, he seeks to explain why God had forsaken them, thus he hoped to teach the Romans a LESSON of what not to do.
Rom. 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Paul thus never says the Promises are N0 MORE. If you read it all you might just understand it.
So, Paul begins EXPLAINING WHY (Very important here, you need to see this also) Israel had lost favor as a Nation with God. Psstt, its because of UNBELIEF !! We can see that is a theme in Rom. 9, 10 and 11. WACTCH.
When he says they re not all Israel who are Israel, and that just because they are the seed of Abraham doesn't mean they are of Abraham, he's simply saying they don't have Abrahams SIMPLE FAITH. They turned unto THE LAW instead and lost sight of the fact that they are only made whole BY FAITH ALONE !! So, Paul is using this to teach the Romans a lesson, and it seems to go right over your head, you only see that God has done away with the Jews, Paul latter on says that is not correct.
Then Paul tries to EXPLAIN because I imagine some of the Romans were like, well, if God threw Israel over fir us Gentiles will He one day do us the same way !! Thus Paul explains why God had forsaken them for a TIME (not forever). Thus to ease there fears, he shows them an example of a potters wheel, and how God chose Jacob over Esau before both were ever born, this (IF YOU GET IT) God is simply telling the Roman Church that in this case likewise, God has chosen the ELDER (Jews) to serve the YOUNGER (Church). Don't ask why, God has perfect plans.
And he does, looking back know, if Judea hat nit of been sacked, if Christianity had of remained in Judea, over time, Christianity would have become just anther form of Judaism. So, of course God had a plan. The Gentile Church was His plan. So, its not so much God having mercy on whom He will etc. etc. its God understanding what His options in every situation and having a plan. God will have mercy on all who call on His name, Israel rejected Him over and over. But just like Gid ad mercy on us (see Rom. 11) He is going to have mercy on them also, WHEN THEY BELIVE AGAIN. The whole reason hes explaining this is the Romans want to knw why God forsook Israel, then he tells them DO NOT GET THE BIG HEAD, if Gid forsook them then you ought to know He will do the same to you if you do not stay the course in Christ Jesus.
In Chapter 11 Paul says Israel will be grafted back in when the BELIVE.........But tat that will not happen until after the Rapture (time of the gentiles be come in).
Anyone that knows the essence of Gid could tell you God does not fore choose those going to heaven and hell, He foreknows, but He gives us FREEWILL.
Of course we have free will. Unfortunately, left to ourselves, no one freely chooses God.Anyone that knows the essence of Gid could tell you God does not fore choose those going to heaven and hell, He foreknows, but He gives us FREEWILL.
Me living in ALL TIME at once and knowing your choices has no effect on YOUR CHOICES. Since God lives in all time at once, you are saying He thus can not give free will, that's is and understanding based in error.i think you should re-read the last sentence in your comment. If He already knows, and He does, how could free will ever be the result?? When i think of free will, i think of us actually having a choice, and God not knowing the outcome. Paul said no one seeks God on their own, this is due to our evil hearts. Keyword is no one. So if some do go on to get saved, then God must choose who to draw to Him, He has to pick.
God drawing us to Him is only really just Him asking us to be like Him instead of Satan then providing a way for that to happen via the Sacrifice of Jesus. Notice when Satan is bound the world will have no WILFULL SIN any more for 1000 years.Of course we have free will. Unfortunately, left to ourselves, no one freely chooses God.
Not according to ScriptureGod drawing us to Him is only really just Him asking us to be like Him instead of Satan then providing a way for that to happen via the Sacrifice of Jesus.
God drawing us to Him is only really just Him asking us to be like Him instead of Satan then providing a way for that to happen via the Sacrifice of Jesus. Notice when Satan is bound the world will have no WILFULL SIN any more for 1000 years.
Satan tricked Adam and Eve and now we have SIN NATURE, thus God has tom draw us back unto Him, but its still our choice. Sadly most love evil of God.
I think the elect are the ones who are trying to do the Lord's will.Who are the elect?
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
I think the elect are the ones who are trying to do the Lord's will.
I suspect one group of people is trying to do God's will, and another isn't. I suspect the Lord chooses those that are trying to do his will. That's what I'd do if I were him.the elect are those God chose to save from hell.
I suspect one group of people is trying to do God's will, and another isn't. I suspect the Lord chooses those that are trying to do his will. That's what I'd do if I were him.
That's like a book.you need to read this. It will help with your theology.
Shorter Catechism: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church
That's like a book.