For a woman to become pregnant, the egg cell of a woman must be fertilized. So who has fertilized the egg cell of the Virgin Mary with his "sperm cell"? In other words, WHO is the father of the Messiah?
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A Female Human egg was not fertalized.
A Human man did not come forth out of Marys womb.
The Father of the Messiah, is the Heavenly God who Declared He World Be A Father to the one He sent to Earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
That "the Word became flesh" means that the Word became a human being.
Jesus was the Son of man and the Son of God.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Nothing exists unless God creates it. The universe was made out of nothing out of the design of God's mind. God could create the sperm of His choice, and He did. He may even have patterned Jesus' DNA after Joseph, his legal father, even though it did not come from Joseph. It had to be flawless, and it was. If it had come from Joseph, it would've been flawed. If it had been from a "work" of Joseph, that work wouldn't been flawed, and tainted with an imperfect human spirit. But it wasn't from the work of Joseph, and being from God alone it was not flawed.
2 things originate from flawed men--imperfect DNA and a tainted, sinful human spirit. We inherit from our ancestors both the flawed physical being we own and a flawed human nature, transferred spiritually, and not just genetically. I'm not sure many understand this, or perhaps they do?
Human men are Earthy beings from Dust.
Really ? Your Lord came Out of Dust of Earth?
My Lord didn't.
My Lord came forth out of Gods mouth, and "took upon Himself", the Like appearance of an Earthly man.
Glory to God,
Taken
Oh good grief... what nonsense.
Seriously...a Human man's seed, a human woman's egg, a humans Flesh and blood had Nothing to do with A Spirit...being revealed in the appearance of a human.
101G
Well-Known Member
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 64:8
But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - ASV.
But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - ASV.
The virgin birth is Scriptural.
God in Three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - is Scriptural.
Best to accept them and not over-rationalize.
God in Three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - is Scriptural.
Best to accept them and not over-rationalize.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
“Speculative thought began to analyze the divine nature until in the 4th century an elaborate theory of a threefoldness in God appears. In this Nicene or Athanasian form of thought God is said to consist of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all equally eternal, powerful and glorious.” - Encyclopedia Americana, 1944, v. 6, p. 619, “Christianity”.
“Exegetes and theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible [the Old Testament] does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity ... Although the Hebrew Bible depicts God as the father of Israel and employs personifications of God such as Word (davar), Spirit (ruah), Wisdom (hokhmah), and Presence (shekhinah), it would go beyond the intention and spirit of the Old Testament to correlate these notions with later trinitarian doctrine.
“Further, exegetes and theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity. God the Father is source of all that is (Pantokrator) and also the father of Jesus Christ; ‘Father’ is not a title for the first person of the Trinity but a synonym for God....
“It is incontestable that the [Trinity] doctrine cannot be established on scriptural evidence alone.” - The Encyclopedia of Religion, Macmillan Publishing Co., 1987, volume 15, p. 54.
“Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord [Jehovah] our God is one Lord.’ Deut. 6:4 .... The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies .... It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons.” - The New Encyclopedia Britannica, 1985, Micropedia, vol. 11, p. 928.
“The formulation ‘One God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian Dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers [those very first Christians who had known and been taught by the Apostles and their disciples], there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 299, v. 14, 1967.
“In the NT there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity.” - p. 344, An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), 1945.
“... the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers; that in the time of Justin [c. 100-165 A. D.], and long after, the distinct nature and inferiority [in comparison to the Father only, of course] of the Son were universally taught; and that only the first shadowy outline of the Trinity had then become visible.” – p. 34, The Church of the First Three Centuries, Alvan Lamson, D.D.
“The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[reek] philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.” - Dictionary of the Bible (Macmillan Publishing Co., New York, 1965), p. 899.
“When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him nor do they think of him as God.” - John M. Creed, Professor of Divinity at the University of Cambridge, in his book, The Divinity of Christ, p. 123.
The word trinity is not in the Bible, but what the work trinity refers to - God in Three Persons - most certainly is in the Bible: the Bible is indeed full of it.
historyb
Well-Known Member
101G
Well-Known Member
you said,
if there is a Oneness between the Father and the Son, is it not the same Person? because you said this,
There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), the Father (John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv), 1 Corinthians 8:6), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corintihans 3:17).
Jesus is the Lord:
1 Corinthians 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
There is one Lord:
Ephesians 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
That Lord is the Father:
Matthew 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
if the Father is Lord and the Son is Lord, as you say, well then how can there be Two separate Person who is Lord if it's only ONE "Lord?"
if you say that they are interchangable, then you just contridicted the bible.
PICJAG.
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The answer is that the Father became the Son after living one eternal moment (which is still future to the Father; but in the past to the Son as well as human history):
Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
So, the Son is the same Person as the Father (He is the same Spirit); distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh.
Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
So, the Son is the same Person as the Father (He is the same Spirit); distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh.
Somehow you are right, the father is the son. But how do you explain that the Bible distinguishes the Son from the Father, or that the Son grows in wisdom? Is it because of the symbolic language?
Every time I read the Bible I come to the conclusion that the Son is the Father, but these illogical passages always take me out of this thinking, which is why I now believe that the Son is the literal Son of God as a separate person but with the same spirit as God because he carries the "genes" of God within him.
It is not that the Father is the Son but that the Son is the Father (come in the flesh).
The Son is distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh.
The Son is distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh.
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