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Who Is "the Restrainer" In 2 Thess. 2:6-7

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Polar, May 11, 2009.

  1. Polar

    Polar New Member

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    In 2 Thess 2:6-7 it talks about the restrainer who is holding back evil and lawlessness.I am curious as to what people here think Paul is talking about.I am pressed for time so I will return later to read what is said and to give my personal opinion.Please...keep it simple and only post Bible verses if they actually directly pertain to this specific topic.Again, directly pertain to this specific topic. It is so difficult to wade through some threads here because some people seem to think volume equates quality.Thank you in advance.
     
  2. GwH

    GwH New Member

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    QUOTE (Polar @ May 11 2009, 11:46 AM)
    It is so difficult to wade through some threads here because some people seem to think volume equates quality.
    Amen.Sorry for the unrelated post.
     
    Dan57 likes this.
  3. Vickie

    Vickie New Member

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    QUOTE (Polar @ May 11 2009, 11:46 AM)
    In 2 Thess 2:6-7 it talks about the restrainer who is holding back evil and lawlessness.I am curious as to what people here think Paul is talking about.I am pressed for time so I will return later to read what is said and to give my personal opinion.Please...keep it simple and only post Bible verses if they actually directly pertain to this specific topic.Again, directly pertain to this specific topic.
    2 Thess 2:7 speaks of the mystery of the Lawless one is already at work. we know this is true for we see the evilness at work out here, as children of God, we see the spirit of disobedience at work. We have not realized the unseen power that has been holding this evilness back from the full power that it has, and have only witnessed a potion of this Satanic power in small doses so far, but it is growing quickly the disobedience to God. This Son of Perdition is powerful in deceit and knows the weakness of humans and has the power of Satan in human form. A very wicked being we are going to be dealing with. He will have the false prophet with him. Two wicked beings.2 Thess 2:9 The coming of the Son of Perdition will be "IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE WORK OF SATAN". displaying all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders. But when it is completely revealed, as it is now at work, for we are going to see more rebellion taking place around us. More are turning away from God today, this power is at work right now for the time of the End is arriving. The Christ will come to remove him just as verse 8 says. No one else has the power to do so.What I don't think we have grasped very well, is the depth of what verse 10 says THOSE IN CHRIST will all be subjected to ALL KINDS OF EVIL, THAT A KIND OF DECEPTION WILL HAPPEN TO DECEIVE THOSE WHO ARE PERISHING. This is serious as can be, Satan is so deceptive to each of us in our battle to overcome sin, that this depicts this Son of Perdition with powers OF knowing how to lure people into turning away from Christ. When this restrainer has been removed and it comes full blown, a great falling away will occur as prophesied. I personally believe we are at the door soon to be opened to let this beast rise up. AS God did not describe who the restrainer is, it can only be of HIS POWER THAT IS HOLDING IT BACK. IMHO. For it takes Christ coming back as verse 8 says to remove him. Vickie
     
  4. Polar

    Polar New Member

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    I think the 'restrainer' is the spirit-filled church. Or, to phrase it another way, I think it is the Holy Spirit working through the church. The power of the prayer of the spirit-filled Christians, I believe, is what is keeping the evil of the Antichrist at bay.Informed Christians in a strong spirit-filled church know what to look for, what is coming. And their prayers have kept much of the evil planned for the world at bay.Also, their knowledge of Biblical prophesy would easily identify the Antichrist and be able to broadcast his next moves, once he comes to light. The body of Christ, the church has to be gone in order for the Antichrist to fulfill what he is going to fulfill.The body (the church) is going to continue to hold the Antichrist at bay as long as it is here.I believe the church will then be removed and the Antichrist then has no real opposition.Those that stood against him with any real power are now gone. The evangelist Donald Gray Barnhouse said:"Well, what is keeping the Antichrist from putting in his appearance on the world stage? YOU are! You and every other member of the body of Christ here on earth. The presence of the church of Jesus Christ is that restraining force that refuses to allow the man of lawlessness to be revealed. True, it is the Holy Spirit that is the true restrainer. But as both 1 Corinthians 3:16 and 6:19 teach, the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. The believers body is the temple of the spirit of God. Put all the believers together then, with the Holy Spirit indwelling each of us, and you have a formidable restraining force."
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The restrainer is Christ by who's death on the cross conquered Satan (who is also called death) for all intensive purposes He is held/restrained now by Michael through the power of Christ ..until the appointed time (the tribulation) His evil spirits and the tares roam the earth now but Satan himself the most beautiful intelligent Angel God ever created is held /restrained By the power of Christ and the help of Michael Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. This is future event that will start the tribulation his angels with him are the locust army of Rev 9 Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. This star is an Angel It is this Angel is Satan himself. The locusts are his army Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
     
  6. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Satan is not called death...based on the bible, they are two separate entities

    Revelation 20:10
    The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.

    Revelation 20:14
    Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    I think the restrainer is the Holy Spirit -
     
  7. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl New Member

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    He who letteth or restraineth

    John 16:7-11
    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    Matthew 5:13-16
    13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
    14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
    15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
    16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

    As salt and light restrain germs, the Holy Spirit in the church restrains evil.

    Thessalonians 2:6-8
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    The Holy Spirit who is in each born again Christian will never leave us nor forsake us. Therefore when He that letteth is taken, we the church will be taken also! Praise God I am ready.
     
  8. Dodo_David

    Dodo_David Melmacian in human guise

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    :huh: letteth? restraineth?
     
  9. UppsalaDragby

    UppsalaDragby New Member

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    Whateth implyeth thou Dodoeth?

    Probably nothing in particulareth, bu I had to asketh... :p
     
  10. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    If one does not pay attention to the Old Testament prophets they will have a difficult time getting what Apostle Paul meant with the one who restrains in 2 Thess.2.

    First thing to remember is that Daniel is being given a vision here by an angel, and this view involves a look into heavenly order of things affecting earthly events...

    Dan 10:8-14
    8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
    9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
    10 And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
    11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
    12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
    13
    But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
    14
    Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
    (KJV)


    The angel says the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood him for 21 days? Can a flesh prince withstand an angel? No, of course not. This means that "prince of the kingdom of Persia" is a heavenly order title for one of God's enemies in the heavenly that has to do with the earthly kingdom of Persia, i.e., one of Satan's angels, or Satan himself.

    Dan 10:19-21
    19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
    20
    Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
    21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
    (KJV)


    The angel then tells Daniel when he returns he will fight with the prince of Persia (heavenly prince of Persia, not flesh princes). Then the prince of Grecia will come. Then in Dan.10:21 we have the answer to the one who withholds. It's the Archangel Michael.

    Exactly who is Michael holding there in the heavenly? Most likely Satan.

    II Th 2:6-8
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And
    then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    (KJV)


    That title of "that Wicked" the KJV translators made as a proper name for a certain individual. So they knew it was not merely about some concept like evil, but an actual entity that will be on the earth when our Lord Jesus comes to destroy him.

    Who might that then be?

    Who again was the Archangel Michael withholding in the heavenly back at Daniel 10 with the heavenly "prince of Persia" title? And if the first angel that spoke to Daniel in Dan.10 said that prince of Persia withstood him for 21 days until the Archangel Michael came to help him, what kind of heavenly power does that point to with that "he"? Who does it point to?

    The answer is here...

    Rev 12:7-12
    7
    And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12
    Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    (KJV)
     
  11. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Michael
     
  12. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Practically all the early commentators and church fathers were unanimous in their belief that Paul was referring to the empire of Rome in general, and to the emperors in particular. Let me provide a few quotes from those early church statesmen from their comments on this matter.
    Let me start with Tertullian (160-240 A. D.):
    “‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder,
    until he be taken out of the way.’ What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling
    away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its
    own ruins)? ‘And then shall be revealed the wicked one.” “On the Resurrection of the
    Flesh,” chapter 24; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. III, p. 563
    (Author: There is some debate as to whether the ‘falling away’ referred to here is in reference to the empire, or the church. Some say one, some the other, while some would contend that it can apply equally to both. Either way, Tertullian was certain in his belief that the restrainer was the Roman Empire. That it was Rome itself that inhibited in some way the rise of the antichrist. This was generally accepted throughout the church at that time, and it was common for the church to pray to God that He would keep the Roman power intact in order to keep the antichrist to coming to power in their time. Interesting also is Tertullian’s reference to the ten kingdoms that would result from the break up of Rome. This is a direct reference to Daniel 7 and the ten horns that would grow from the 4th beast, Rome. The Antichrist, according to Bible scholars, was the 11th horn. Tertullian was using the historicist method of prophetic interpretation, that method which viewed prophecy as an historical unfolding throughout history from the time the prophecy was first given, and culminating at the second coming. This is significant when understanding Paul’s letter, because Paul is clear that the Antichrist would appear as soon as Rome moves aside, and that very same Antichrist would still be there to be judged at the second coming. Not futurist, not preterist, but a historicist approach, just like Tertullian.)
    In yet another comment, Tertullian states: “The very end of all things threatening dreadful woes is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman Empire.”
    (“Apology,” chapter 32; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III, p. 43).
    A little later Lactantius,. in the early fourth century wrote: “The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains, it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen, and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls say shall come to pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things.” (“The Divine Institutes,” book 7, chapter 25; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 220).
    Also early in the fourth century Cyril of Jerusalem (318-386 A. D.)had this to say: “But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after those an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, ‘three he shall humble,’ and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself.” (Catechetical Lectures,” section 15, on II Thessalonians 2:4; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 108 [New York: The Christian Literature Company, 1895]).
    (Author: Much could be said about this quote; he also is clearly linking the prophecy of Daniel to the text of Paul’s, agreeing with other eminent writers of his time that out of Rome would evolve ten kings, 3 of whom the antichrist would subdue. When the restrainer, Rome, was to be taken out of the way, and the horns of Daniel 7 arise, the antichrist would be revealed.)
    Now I would present the testimony of Ambrose (died in 398): “After the falling or decay of the Roman Empire, Antichrist shall appear.” (Quoted in, Bishop Thomas Newton,
    Dissertations on the Prophecies, p. 463)……
    ….and Chrysostom (died in 407): “When the Roman Empire is taken out of the way, then he [the Antichrist] shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God.”
    Homily IV on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9,” Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. XIII, p. 389
    [New York: Charles Scribner’s and Sons, 1905]…..
    …and finally Jerome (died 420): “He that letteth is taken out of the way, and yet we do not realize that Antichrist is near.”
    (Letter to Ageruchia, written about 409A. D. Letter 123, section 16; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VI, p. 236
    Jerome’s testimony is interesting. He admits and agrees with other early church fathers of his era that Rome was the restrainer, and had been removed in his (Jerome’s) lifetime. Yet it had not yet been made apparent who the power was that could definitively be called the Antichrist. Why? Because from Jerome’s perspective, he could not see all the signs of the Antichrist’s coming, as they had yet to be revealed in history. The capital of the empire had been removed to Constantinople, and the Gothic barbarian kings* were already well entrenched in ongoing battles and wars to decide who would rule over the territories not long since vacated by Rome, but the three horns to be subdued were still in power. When they were subdued, it would then be known by whose power they were done away, and the identity of Antichrist would be revealed.
    I think it would be very helpful if I here provided a quote from the eminent Catholic historian, Cardinal Manning.
    “Now the abandonment of Rome was the liberation of the pontiffs. Whatsoever claims to obedience the emperors may have made, and whatsoever compliance the Pontiff may have yielded, the whole previous relation, anomalous, and annulled again and again by the vices and outrages of the emperors, was finally dissolved by a higher power. The providence of God permitted a succession of irruptions, Gothic, Lombard, and Hungarian, to desolate Italy, and to efface from it every remnant of the empire.
    The pontiffs found themselves alone, the sole fountains of order, peace, law, and safety. And from the hour of this providential liberation, when, by a divine intervention,
    the chains fell off from the hands of the successor of St. Peter, as once before from his own, no sovereign has ever reigned in Rome except the Vicar of Jesus Christ.”
    (Henry Edward Manning, The Temporal Power of The Vicar of Jesus Christ, Preface, pp. xxviii, xxix. London: Burns and Lambert, 1862).
    Manning has clearly given an excellent summary of history which directly correlates with the prophecies of Daniel and Paul. While attributing the fall of Rome to God and the rise of the papacy to Him also, Manning seems oblivious to the fact that he is revealing the perfect fulfillment of the prophecy of Paul and Daniel. That when Rome fell, the ten nations arose, three were subdued, and the ultimate victor was the papacy! It was the papacy itself that the empire of Rome was restraining. It was the papacy that arose after the establishment of the ten horns. It was the papacy that had a major role in the subjugation of the 3 horns because being Arian in belief they were directly opposed to the rule of the pontiffs. It will be the papacy that will still be here at the second coming. Therefore it is the papacy which perfectly fulfils the criteria demanded of it in order to be identified as the Antichrist. And that my friends are precisely the reasons all non-Roman Bible commentators from the time of the 6th century on were almost unanimous in identifying the papacy as the man of sin. The power who entered the church (the temple of God) and by claiming the power to forgive sin, and shut out of heaven whom he will, and claiming universal spiritual and temporal authority over all the earth, thus claiming the prerogatives of God, “opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”
     
  13. shturt678

    shturt678 New Member

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    Thank you folks for caring!

    IIThess.2:7 This lawlessness is still held down by our Lord. The stripping away of the cover has not come to pass yet, or has it? This mystery of lawlessness was compelled to work under cover before.

    Old Jack throwing his 2-bits in
     
  14. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    The persecutions of pagan Rome did not weaken the church, rather, they contributed to its growth and strength. Thus while they continued, they 'restrained' the far greater threat of appearing, that is the apostasy that eventuated through so-called Christianity becoming the state religion, mixed as it was with every pagan corruption that persists today in the guise of the "man of sin", papal Rome.
     
  15. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    To identify "the restrainer" at 2 Thessalonians 2, one has to examine (and understand) Jesus illustration of the "wheat and weeds" at Matthew 13. In this illustration concerning the "Kingdom of the heavens", Jesus says that it "may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared."(Matt 13:24-26)


    Who is the "man who sowed fine seed in his field" ? Jesus identified the "man" as himself.(Matt 13:37) But who are the ones that fell ' asleep' so that the field (which represents the world of mankind in which Jesus sowed "fine seed") was oversown with "weeds" by an "enemy" ? Jesus faithful apostles.


    While alive, these held back or restrained the planting of "weeds" or imitation Christians who became apostates, promoting doctrines and teaching contrary to Jesus words. These were planted among the "wheat" or genuine Christians by Satan (Matt 13:38), but only Jesus apostles held them at bay.


    However, after the death of the apostles (the last one, John died in about 100 C.E.) or "while men were sleeping", the "enemy" came and "oversown weeds among the wheat". Initially, it was difficult to distinguish between the "weeds", imitation Christians and the "wheat", the real Christians.


    Hence, in the Illustration at Matthew 13, Jesus said that when "slaves of the master" came to him and pointed out that "weeds" had been sown among the "wheat" and asked if they were to ' go out and collect the weeds', the "master" (Jesus) recognized who did this, telling them: ' No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them".(Matt 13:27, 28)


    Thus, both the genuine and imitation Christians were allowed to "grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’” (Matt 13:30)


    We are now living during the "harvest season" or "conclusion of a system of things"(Matt 13:39), which began when Jesus was installed as king of God's Kingdom in 1914. And also at this time, the "weeds" can be clearly distinguished from the "wheat" or true Christians by the "master", Jesus Christ.


    After the death of the apostles, the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians began to proliferate, literally to overtake the "wheat", who held firm to God's laws and doctrinal teachings, remaining "no part of the world (those alienated from Jehovah God)".(John 15:19)


    Thence, the apostle Paul wrote that "the day of Jehovah" (2 Thess 2:2, or Armageddon, Rev 16:14, 16) will "not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction."(2 Thess 2:3) In giving the illustration of the "wheat and weeds", Jesus expected the one true religion that he established and went into operation on Pentecost 33 C.E., to ' fall away ' or apostasize, to be infiltrated with false religious elements and stay that way until "the harvest season" or "conclusion of a system of things" that began in 1914.


    Over the course of almost 2,000 years, the "man of lawlessness", the clergy-class of Christendom, developed (from about the 3rd century onward) and became extremely powerful. These kept the Bible from reaching honest-hearted ones by banning having the Bible (confiscating Bibles translated by such ones as William Tyndale) or even reading it. At times, those who just possessed a Bible were burned at the stake.


    Today, the Bible can be read by people all over the world, but Jesus will see to it that "the son of destruction" who have opposed the publishing of the Bible in the past, the clergy of Christendom, who "stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship (giving themselves high sounding titles such as Pope, Archbishop, Cardinal, Monsignor (meaning "my lord"), Reverend or Most Right Reverend), so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god ("look at me" as your Reverend)." (2 Thess 2:4), will soon be dealt with, eradicated from the earth when Babylon the Great, world empire of false religion, is destroyed by the "ten horns", the political governments.(Rev 17:16)
     
  16. Saint

    Saint New Member

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    Just a quick thought; every nation has a angelic overlord, refer to Deu 32:8 and this fact is evident in Dan 10. So assuming this nation has that angelic guidance, what has occurred when the power of the United States was withdrawn from the Middle East? You have seen the rapid materialization of the power of Islam (which is the religion of the beast) and the beginning of the finial Islamic Caliphate. Maybe, just maybe it has been the United States that has been holding back the son of destruction…just a thought!
     
  17. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Hey saint,
    I agree that every nation has an angelic being assigned over it but note also that you have a president that sympathizes with the above powers. The US has been strategical in the slowing down of world events.... However, this does not mean that the US is the actual restrainer as God is gracious and long suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9. IMHO the restrainer is not a person or nation or physical entity. The restrainer is a very powerful spiritual entity - albeit, Holy Spirit of God...
     
  18. shturt678

    shturt678 New Member

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    Thank you for caring again!

    Just a head's up to relook at IIThess.2:8, "...the lawless one whom the Lord Jesus shall make away with..." Possibly the lawless is already operating, compelled to work undercover...unstill stripped away by the "restrainer," our Lord.

    Old Jack hopefully not an uncover Christian, ie, I didn't know our Lord had so many undercover 'secret agents'? Found out my neighber who I've know for almost a decade, although he doesn't go to Church, is a Christian...I was in shock, and never vented my opinion to him having a neighber hating me forever by cautioning him in light of Heb.10:25 only for openers. I did mention something to his wife later regarding this issue, and she heard me.
     
  19. Cooter

    Cooter New Member

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    The Restrainer removed.

    If your paradigm of the Bible is that everything is in the Future - then skip this post as it will mean nothing to you. The fact is that Jesus and Paul both spoke to the generation of their day; and what they said all came to pass by 70AD.

    God gave his people a simple sign that the restrainer had been lifted from the city and the Temple. This was the same identical sign that he had given Ezekiel in his day just before the destruction of the Temple of Solomon. The pattern is the same. He saw the Shekinah Glory of God depart the city and rise to the top of the Mount of Olives - just like it did later in 66AD.

    The historical records of this sign are as follows...

    Josephus: Wars Book VI Chapter 5 Section 3

    Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, (War with Rome) and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nissan, April, about a week before Passover (66AD)] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.

    This was the week before Passover of Nissan 66AD - the Shekinah Glory of God had left the Holy of Holies and was departing the Temple. This was a physical sign to the believers that the restrainer was being withdrawn from Israel.

    Josephus:
    Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost (66AD), as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."


    The Shekinah Glory of God had left the Temple; and about 56 days later the angelic heavenly host left also. News like this concerning the Temple would travel very rapidly around the city in a short period of time.

    Eusebius:
    Believers in Christ congregate from all parts of the world, not as of old time because of the glory of Jerusalem, nor that they may worship in the ancient Temple at Jerusalem, (which was destroyed) but...that they may worship at the Mount of Olives opposite to the city, whither the glory [the Shekinah Glory] of the LORD migrated when it left the former city (Proof of the Gospel, Bk. VI, Chap.18).

    Eusebius was commenting about a practice of the Christians of his day (260-340AD) who flocked to the Mount of Olives to the place where the Shekinah Glory of God had stood after it had departed from the Temple back in 66AD. The main idea here is that the Christians in the forth century had commonly known of this event and this was a proof of it.

    Rabbi Jonathan;
    A Jewish rabbi by the name of Jonathan, who was an eyewitness to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., said the Shekinah Glory left the Temple and for three and a half years abode on the Mount of Olives hoping that Israel would repent, but they did not; while a Bet Kol [a supernatural voice from heaven] issued forth announcing, Return, O backsliding children [Jer. 3:14]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you [Malachi. 3:7]. When they did not repent, it said, I will return to my place [in heaven] [Hosea 5:15] (Midrash, Rabbah Lamentations 2:11).

    Some who insist upon moving Matt 24 to the future claim that these passages do not prove that God had left the temple nor was this a lifting of the restrainer. Even if this were true - you still cannot refute the historical fact that the war began very shortly after this event. This is itself the greatest proof of all that the restrainer had left. Paul said the restrainer had to be removed before the "rebellion" (War) could begin and this is exactly how it happened.

    Jesus was crucified on the top of the Mount of Olives, so can you see a connection between this Shekinah Glory and the crucifixion? It was just another sign for the Jews. It was like God had put up a giant flashing neon billboard with an arrow pointing downward begging the question "What happened here."

    The retrainer was removed near Passover of 66AD. The war or rebellion started soon after. Florus was the last govanor of Judea and he was the absolute worst of all. It was he that deliberately on more than one occaion tried to force a war between the Jews and the Romans. He wanted an excuse to sack the city and steal all of the treaure of the temple. It didn't work because the restrainer was still in place in the temple. After the Shekinah glory left the temple the war began.
     
  20. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Ahhh...I see that you are a Preterist. Welcome aboard! :)
     
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